Askia

It slows down the steam-roll just a touch, since Askia gets a lot of early gold.
 
Gazebo said:
Songhai did not need the nerf (they're literally a one-trick pony, pun intended).
Click to expand...

Gazebo recently wrote (in the 9-25 version thread) that Songhai are a one-trick pony. If that is so, isn't that a bit problematic from a balance/VP perspective, where we want civs to be multidimensional?
 
I don't agree with @Gazebo. :p Both their UU and UB are really good, and their UA isn't shabby either. Honestly, I've always considered them pretty well-rounded.
 
LukaSlovenia29 said:
Gazebo recently wrote (in the 9-25 version thread) that Songhai are a one-trick pony. If that is so, isn't that a bit problematic from a balance/VP perspective, where we want civs to be multidimensional?
Click to expand...
I find he can work well with progress or authority. Even tradition isn't crazy if your capital has a ton of rivers.

Late game I do find Songhai starts to drop off, but the early game is strong enough to justify it. His ponies are pretty crazy.
 
Do Songhai rivers count as roads for villages, or do they just get the villages just get the trade route bonus if one passes over it?
 
That's a possibility. This is just a guess but maybe it behaves similarly with Iroquois UA. I haven't had any game as Hiawatha though.
 
I discovered this mod before the change happened, but I've never liked Mandekalu coming so early. It doesn't make sense from a historical perspective, and leveraging your incredibly powerful UU depends on whether you can get 2+ horse resources in ancient or not. Having the unit come that early makes Songhai games a dice roll, based on your strategic resource options, and you only know that after researching husbandry.
 
Besides historical perspective, do you feel that mandekalu's kit is not enough to justify that weakness?

On another note, it is unfortunate that when upgraded their no-city-attack-penalty poof away.
 
neo_arcadia said:
Besides historical perspective, do you feel that mandekalu's kit is not enough to justify that weakness?

On another note, it is unfortunate that when upgraded their no-city-attack-penalty poof away.
Click to expand...
Mandekalu are so powerful though that your access to Horses essentially dictates your early game. I don't know how you can say the Mandekalu Cavalry's kit is enough to justify the weakness of not having horses because you need Horses to have Mandekalu Cavalry in the first place.

Mandekalu could come at Medieval, it would be more balanced in human hands, but then the overlap with Spain is pretty heavy.

Speaking of which, sometimes I think Conquistador should be a unique lancer that comes earlier (Gunpowder). It'd be much more historical, at least.
 
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Sorry, should've quoted @pineappledan to clarifiy that that question is for him.

@chicorbeef Can you clarify the reason why mandekalu would be more balanced in human hands if unlocked at medieval?

I think the Conquistador unlocked at chivalry is Spain's strength. Spain need one technology to unlock both UU and UB (like Japan too). Moving it to Lancer would be a huge nerf iwithout implementation of buffs. Then again, it's from balance perspective and should not be discussed in Songhai's river of thread lol.

Talking about overlap, there are three unique knight already (Conquistador, Naresuan, Cataphract) while only one lancer (winged husssar)

Side note. Another three unique unit are tercio (impi, carolean, musketeer), cavalry (cossack, comanche, berber), spearman (hoplite, immortal, pictish), swordman (kris, mohawk, legion).
 
neo_arcadia said:
.@chicorbeef Can you clarify the reason why mandekalu would be more balanced in human hands if unlocked at medieval?

I think the Conquistador unlocked at chivalry is Spain's strength. Spain need one technology to unlock both UU and UB (like Japan too). Moving it to Lancer would be a huge nerf iwithout implementation of buffs. Then again, it's from balance perspective and should not be discussed in Songhai's river of thread lol.

Talking about overlap, there are three unique knight already (Conquistador, Naresuan, Cataphract) while only one lancer (winged husssar)

Side note. Another three unique unit are tercio (impi, carolean, musketeer), cavalry (cossack, comanche, berber), spearman (hoplite, immortal, pictish), swordman (kris, mohawk, legion).
Click to expand...
I think Mandekalu would be more balanced in human hands if moved to Medieval because currently they just come too early for their power imo.

I really believe Mandekalu are the deadliest early unit in the game when rushed and supported properly (the downside is you need Horses and walled cities or a wall of spears can put a dent in your plans).

Pushing back the unit means that the AI would have more time to build up a defense. Also, the Raider promotion is kept on upgrade, so the Mandekalu are just as deadly in the Medieval as the Ancient/Classical currently.
 
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From my perspective, as i am playing them right now, they are multiway nation. I can go either pure warmonger path, or just capture/raze few defenseless cities to make some money which will push me forward/ keep me in a line thanks to investment possibility. with mandekalu replacing a lancer, i would say, that that unit wouldn't only a lose its point of being an early super threat, but it also leaves Askia with its UA without proper tools to make it. UB is really nice, can not deny that, but i don't think it would be enough. IMHO it would push Askia back as one of the worst civ to play.
 
I think the UU is a touch over-tuned right now. When he's your neighbor, there's just not much you can do outside of having lucky terrain to keep your cities safe.
 
Gothic_Empire said:
I think the UU is a touch over-tuned right now. When he's your neighbor, there's just not much you can do outside of having lucky terrain to keep your cities safe.
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Rush him with pathfinder and archer, go trapping asap, then pasture tech, make sure his horse remain pillaged/unimproved. Once he has mancav its gameover.
 
Is the flanking bonus still at 200%? Its possible for a mandek to kill other horsemen in one hit.
 
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