Astronomy obsoletes too much

[Wolfshanze]

Does anybody (other then me) avoid Astronomy like the plague?

I'm not at home right now, so can't double check exactly which things it obsoletes, but I do recall it seems to obsolete several important money and culture-making wonders, so I tend to avoid astronomy if at all possible (obviously not playing on water-worlds).

All I know is that I have to rush to steam-powered ships if I want naval units, because I don't want to research Astronomy due to what it obsoletes.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Astronomy is still OK when compared to scientific method . It only obsoletes Stonehenge, monuments and Colossus IIRC.

 

[Verge]

It only renders Stonehenge, The Colossus, and monuments obsolete. I can live with that. In particular, you don't need Stonehenge and monuments anymore by the time you research Astronomy.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Hmmm... that's what I get for not being home... I was thinking it obsoleted one of those religous cash-cow wonders.

 

[namliaM]

That would be Sci Meth, which obsoleets The .... Great .... Library

Or... Economics which IIRC obsoleets The .... Great .... Lighthouse

 

[Julian Delphiki]

You're prolly thinking of computers which obsoletes Spiral Minaret (and Angkor Wat & University of Sankore.. which are a real loss if have build a priest economy on them).

 

[Wolfshanze]

That would be Sci Meth, which obsoleets The .... Great .... Library

Or... Economics which IIRC obsoleets The .... Great .... Lighthouse

I'm getting too old... maybe it is Scientific Method I'm thinking about... isn't that the one that also obsoletes making Monastaries?

Yeah... and I love that Spiral Minaret... I'm so confused!

 

[Dutch Canuck]

If you manage to build The Colossus reasonably quickly, the many turns of benefits will make up for losing this wonder with Astronomy. I often beeline for Astronomy so as to be the first to get ocean trade and the first with the ability to colonize regions previously unreachable with galleys; I *never* trade this tech just to be sure as many AI civs as possible are left struggling behind! I find the benefits of researching this tech usually outweighs the losses. However, it can be a quite a challenge in some games to be one of the first to get Astronomy - I've always played BTS with the No Tech Brokering option so even if I'm second or 3rd to get Astronomy, at least the entire planet doesn't suddenly have the tech as a consequence of excessive AI-to-AI trading.

BTW: IIRC The Great Lighthouse becomes obsolete with The Corporation (not Economics).

 

[namliaM]

I'm getting too old... maybe it is Scientific Method I'm thinking about... isn't that the one that also obsoletes making Monastaries?

Yeah... and I love that Spiral Minaret... I'm so confused!

A lot of techs obsoleet a lot of things... that is the way of CIV Progress must be made

 

[AfterShafter]

A lot of techs obsoleet a lot of things... that is the way of CIV Progress must be made

Nothing like losing 10% research, +2 beakers, +2 gold, and +2 hammers for progress with scientific method Once my cities are less productive in every area, I know progress is going as it should.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Nothing like losing 10% research, +2 beakers, +2 gold, and +2 hammers for progress with scientific method Once my cities are less productive in every area, I know progress is going as it should.

Yeah... that must be the one I'm thinking of... Scientific Method... that one SUCKS developing... it's important to advance, but I hate researching it!

 

[Balderstrom]

My problem with the obsoleting of the "Monument" is it kills Egypt's UB / Obelisk. Believe it may be the only Civ whose UB gets obsoleted, aside from perhaps the other civ that has a stable replacement - but by the time that gets obsoleted you really don't need horse any longer.

 

[TheLastOne36]

a number of ub's go obselete. Citedel, Totem Pole, Dun, Obelisk, Stele, the mongolian stable, etc.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

My problem with the obsoleting of the "Monument" is it kills Egypt's UB / Obelisk. Believe it may be the only Civ whose UB gets obsoleted, aside from perhaps the other civ that has a stable replacement - but by the time that gets obsoleted you really don't need horse any longer.

It's ok with BtS.. in warlords Obelisks were obsoleted by calendar .

 

[obsolete]

Astronomy should make your science jump through the roof with the over-seas trade, asuming you aren't running mercantilism, and you have a good MAP.

Now, Scientific Method is the one that doesn't make any sense. The name sounds like it has something to do with science, as in, make you get a scientific boost, because you would THINK it was some sort of science tech.

Nope, it's the absolute science crusher. You ALWAYS take a big tech-rate fall here, because the monasteries come obsolete, and your GL also goes kaplooie.

I don't understand this nonsense, and Firaxis probably doesn't either.

 

[Refar]

This thread would be missing something without you ^^

Anyway i dont like all that obsolete Building/Wonder nonsence in general... I was thinking of moding it out, but it feels a bit like cheating

 

[narmox]

Astronomy should make your science jump through the roof with the over-seas trade, asuming you aren't running mercantilism, and you have a good MAP.

Now, Scientific Method is the one that doesn't make any sense. The name sounds like it has something to do with science, as in, make you get a scientific boost, because you would THINK it was some sort of science tech.

Nope, it's the absolute science crusher. You ALWAYS take a big tech-rate fall here, because the monasteries come obsolete, and your GL also goes kaplooie.

I don't understand this nonsense, and Firaxis probably doesn't either.

To me it represents the societal changeover from religion to science-based thinking... Replace (part of) the science from the lost monasteries with Free Religion's science boost, and you can start seeing a trend... Add the Observatories and the Universities you should already have been building, and the Monasteries quickly seem obsolete - especially if you had only 1 religion.

Now if you had every city with all 7 Monasteries, well.... sucks lol

Narmox

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

Meh, it now just combines what calender used to obsolete. I like the way much better.

 

[Angst]

You're prolly thinking of computers which obsoletes Spiral Minaret (and Angkor Wat & University of Sankore.. which are a real loss if have build a priest economy on them).

Seconded. I had an awesome game with all those wonders.
I avoided computers too long because of it, but heck, I managed to settle 9 prophets in my capital

 

[Ormur]

It's funny that computers and scientific method which both ushered in an era of rapid advances in science (in the real world) tend to slow your process in Civ IV. I often loose the race to physics because I don't research scientific method until at the very last moment possible although the universities and observatories that I'm building compensate for the obsolete monasteries.

Computers are a bit tougher since I usually build both the University of Sankore and the Spiral Minaret but that also gives my an excuse to switch to free religion with it's 10% bonus in research. I understand that those buildings should get obsolete but perhaps other techs should do it.