Atheist Culture

[synthboy]

I've been trying to step up to Prince (fairly unsuccessfully so far) and was wondering about what the best way to expand cities' borders without religion was. I've just played a (Warlords) game as Washington and decided against going for an early religion as I thought I'd just get beaten to it. That meant that my first chance to get culture was either Wonders (again avoided, didn't think I'd get there first, limited to one city) or Libraries. However, these are pretty expensive and I wondered if I'd be better of either grabbing Mysticism early for Monuments or waiting until I could get Theatres.

So, my options are:

1. Libraries

2. Monumnets

3. Theatres

4. Ignore 1-3 and go for a religion anyway

5. Don't bother with culture, it'll come your way eventually

6. Something else

Anybody care to enlighten me with their uber strategies...

 

[DaveMcW]

Stonehenge

 

[drkodos]

You could try playing a civ with the Creative trait.

 

[wioneo]

ALL cities should have theatres. They are always the first thing that I build in conquered cities after I have a large surplus and can skip courthouses for a while. Two happiness(with spices or was it incense?) and 2 CPT plus 1 happiness per 10% culture, which I don't use, but some people do.

 

[oyzar]

monomuents are great in the early game.

 

[Jet]

Monuments (with or without Stonehenge). You can't possibly wait until Drama for Theatres, that's much too late. Libraries are fine instead, but they take longer to build, so if you skip the Monument for a Library you might want to chop it to speed it up.

 

[Sisiutil]

I myself prefer Stonehenge--it's a cheap wonder, you can usually build it no prob even without stone--but without it, I'd recommend monuments over libraries in most cities. Besides the fact that libraries are expensive, they are often not a worthwhile build for the hammers for cities that won't produce much research. And Mysticism is available much earlier than Writing, let alone Drama.

But while you're listing options, another (slightly later) one is to get Code of Laws, switch to caste system, and then run an artist specialist in a city until its borders pop. The city has to have at least 2 citizens to do this, of course, so ideally you should have a good food source in a tile adjacent to the city to speed things up.

 

[drkodos]

But while you're listing options, another (slightly later) one is to get Code of Laws, switch to caste system, and then run an artist specialist in a city until its borders pop. The city has to have at least 2 citizens to do this, of course, so ideally you should have a good food source in a tile adjacent to the city to speed things up.

I thought you could can run a specialist with a population of just 1, but you sacrifice all growth. I am sure to be corrected if I am wrong.

 

[Meatbuster]

Yes, you can run artist on size 1. All theaters are destroyed when you conquer them so caste system is a must.

I almost never build 'Henge. I'd rather build a monument/obelisk for some reason.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Three words: No State Religion. AS religions spread in your land, they will ALL add culture, not just one. Then when you capture a shrine, then you can spread it to all your cities, thus pumping your culture huge. 3 to 5 free culture points before temples and Monasteries can be huge...

 

[JimT]

I would say in my opinion

Preferred Option
Stonehenge is the best option, especially as it begins immediately rather than having to wait for the monument beign built/rushed

Failing that

Second Option
Libraries in Commerce cities
Monuments in production cities
Libraries come later but I weigh this up against the fact I will want one anyway and I usually get writing pretty quickly in my beeline to alphabet.

Of course if I have two gold on the edge of my fat cross I will rush a monument. Also UB may affect the decision as well (Incan Terraces spring to mind)

 

[cabert]

my favourites:

1) no state religion (you don't need to found the religions!):
pros :
- it's costing you 0
or
- the cost can be external (building a missionary in another city)
cons :
- you can do very little to make this faster early on (if you don't found the religion), other than roads and open borders
- it relies on a religion (so it's not purely atheist )

2) being creative (duh!)
pros :
- it's fast and reliable
- after the game starts it cost you nothing
cons :
- it costs you a trait, which is not 0...

3) pop rushing an obelisk / library (depending on how urgent the culture is)
pros :
- you don't need to switch out of slavery
- it's either cheap (obelisk) or useful (library)
cons :
- you need the techs to build them
- it's either otherwise useless (obelisk) or not cheap (library)

4) building stonehenge in the capital
pros:
- it's cheap if you expand more than one city
- it gives you GPP
- its external (meaning you can build a granary in the nex city)
cons:
- it's a world wonder, so not a sure thing
- it requires mysticism, that may or not be a starting tech. If it is a starting tech, you could have gone for a religion :crazyeyes:
- you could build 4 axes for the same price = one more city.

5) caste system + assigning artists
pros :
- you get exactly what you want
- you can even gain beakers this way
- you gain GPP
cons:
- you need CoL
- you must swith out of slavery (if not spiritual, it means anarchy!)
- you use your citizens for culture instead of growing/building
- as soon as you deassign your artist(s), there is no more culture coming in


In my experience, it's often easier to wait for religions to creep in (= option 1) while building a library.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

Cabert you have made articles about health and happiness, why dont you make one about culture

 

[B1sh0p]

I've found that my best games are when I go for Stonehenge. Must be that I save a lot of time (and trees from chopping) building monuments. Your borders pop quickly, and you can focus on building military, workers, and settlers. I then hold off on calender until I'm close to Drama, unless I have a lot of resources that need Calender, or all of my cities' borders have popped. I play on Noble though, so I dunno if that will translate into Prince very well.

 

[johnny_rico]

With caste system, don't you need to have a building capable of producing the type of specialist you want to run? Thus the civic isn't enough, you also need drama.

 

[WTBCzero]

When do you get Code of Laws? I left it until 1AD in one game, and i still founded it's religion.

 

[Severus]

With caste system, don't you need to have a building capable of producing the type of specialist you want to run? Thus the civic isn't enough, you also need drama.

No, you can assign as many artists, scientists or merchants as you like without having any buildings at all.

 

[johnny_rico]

No, you can assign as many artists, scientists or merchants as you like without having any buildings at all.

Interesting, that seems very powerful. Seems like with a spiritual civ, you could really abuse this with slavery

 

[synthboy]

Interesting, that seems very powerful. Seems like with a spiritual civ, you could really abuse this with slavery

There is a five turn period after a change when you cannot switch civics. So you're stuck with your civics for at least that period.

Some great ideas here: thanks. Figure I'll try either the Stonehenge or Monuments/Caste System route and see how that works out.

 

[cabert]

Cabert you have made articles about health and happiness, why dont you make one about culture

because there are already very good ones!
Some leading to a cultural victory so early I can't even dream of...