The brain is a physical object. If God interacts with a human, that human's brain is altered in the process, which means that God has not merely initiated a unique, personal experience for a person, but that he has caused a physical event in the universe. In a deterministic universe, it is theoretically possible for that event, or its effects, to be observed and studied scientifically.
Therefore, there is no such thing as a merely personal religious experience, and no such thing as a religion which is true for one person and false for another. If God interferes in any way with the workings of the cosmos, then it becomes possible for science to study her/him/it. In that event, the nature of God's existence ceases to be a matter of faith at all, instead becoming another mundane fact of the multiverse.
I would find it difficult to be able to disagree with you any more than I do right now. This is exactly they type of thing that I was referring to earlier.
A statement is made, as truth, with no examples, or any basis of fact to back it up, other than the writer happens to hold that opinion. Then they proceed to take that personal opinion, and run with it, out on a tangent, to a illogical conclusion.
The original discussion is about religious experiences. It has been determined that the nature of God and His design will, of necessity determine what those experiences are.
Ziggy is absolulty correct, such things cannot be scientifically proven, nor can they be scientifically show to be impossible, because of other scientific facts.
So the question becomes: What are these experiences, are they valid ones, and is there any evidience to either back them up, or discredit them?
Birdjaguar hit on an important concept in religious experiences. The notion that there was a single God, was indeed a game changer. I am not exactly positive, but I do believe the Jewish beliefs were unique, and quite different for it's time. Not just one God, but His interest and interaction with men.
Then along came Christianity, which took the Jewish concept farther along (not higher, just farther) and made God even more interactive, and personal. Which also included more of the personal experiences.
There's nothing in that maxim that limits free will, it simply says we all come of the same oneness, known as God.
Punkbass: It is about cause and effect. I am referring mainly to the effect of sameness that is limited in the maxim. The statement implies that the circumstances determine the result. I think that sounds alot like Calvanism and predestination. And while it may or may not limit free will, (I'd need to know more about Gothmog's ideas about God) it certainly limits individuality, and what effect our choices will actually have on us.
From Ziggy:
If I take the scale into consideration it all turns bonkers pretty fast. If God alone is, God is the universe. In this universe a planet, or us on it, are minuscule parts of the complete picture. Forget the pinky finger, this is getting closer to an atom in the pinky finger. An atom that sometimes even believes it's the most important part of the body.
Ok, I'd like to explain something about God's interraction with men. It might even apply to the question of where evil came from, but I am not sure.
If you allow me to start with God is: then I say that God is then the Creator. According to Genesis, and many other beliefs, He created the heavens and the earth.
According to Genesis, He then made all the creatures on the earth, and then made man to rule over His earthly creation for Him. In another passage of the Bible it is stated that man was made a "little lower that the angels" Genesis also quotes God as saying "Let Us make man in Our Image, and in Our likeness" (yes the plural use of the words are in there)
It is clear that God intended something special for man in His creation, something above the rest of the earthly creation. He even let man name all the plants and creatures.
Created as we are, God gave us our brains, and how they function, He expects us to use them. And since He made us in His image, He gace us certain abilities. One of which is the ability to create things. Not out of nothing, like He Himself did, but from the materials He put on the earth for us to use and rule over.
Now when we make something, or do something we put a bit of ourselves into that. Not our leaving parts of our soul, or bodies imbedded in a house, for instance, but it has our personal touch. We make it according to what we like to have in a house. We build it according to our skill with tools, and our knowledge of building techniques. We build it according to our creative abilities to come up with a new idea.
And most importantly we build it according to the level of interest we have in the project. In other words do we love what we are doing? Do we enjoy building the house? For it is true of everyone, in any aspect of their lives; if you love what you are doing, you put more into it, more of yourself. And the result is almost always better than if you just "go through the motions".
This house, is now complete, it is our house, we made it. It has our stamp upon it, it shows how much care and ability we had in making it. But it is not us, we are not the house, it only reflects who we are, and shows why we built it. Yes in that way we have left a part of us in that house, but only in that it shows who made it. And it tells something about us to whoever comes to visit it or live in it.
The same thing with God and His creation. What He created is not Him, it is His handiwork, and it tells us about Him.
Psalms 19:1-2"The heavens are telling of the glory of God: And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge."
Here is where the quote from John 10:34 that punkbass mentions fits in. If you read the entire passage, you'll notice that it is a converation between Jesus and some Jews in the Temple in Jerusalem. I won't take the time to quote the entire chapter here, all you have to do is go read it for yourselves.
Jesus is answering the Jews who want to stone Him, because of His statements in which he asserts His divinity. In this exchange, He is quoting Ps 82:6 and it is a passage that condems the unjust judges and leaders of the people at that time. In the context this quote is a marvelous come-back. But the word "gods" in both passages refer to sons of God, or part of His Creation. And part of that "children of God" aspect is our creativity, that I just talked about.It is one "image" part of God that He gave us.
The rest of John:10 goes on to realte how Jesus confronts the religious teachers of that day, and he reasserts His divinity, causing the Jews to attempt to seize Him, but He gets away.
I went over this real passage real quickly, and can expound on it if you wish, but like I said it is there in the Bible and you can read it for yourselves. But read the entire passage, don't just take one part out of the context, and think it means something that it does not actually say.
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