Avatar Blues

Originally posted by Crazy Eddie
Sure? Not even if you were offered a shiny new basset... :mischief:
Well, maybe this once. :)

But face it, even though it's "shiny" & "new", it's still the same basset. :mischief:

Edit: Ahh, I see, Eddie. Trying to make life difficult for me by posting a .png instead of a .gif! I'll just have to see about that when I get home. ;)
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
... "martyr" ...
That implies making some great sacrifice for your faith.

Working overtime to be the first honorary recipient of the gold plated Bozo award or whacking yourself in the face repeatedly with a 2x4 to gain people's attention does not exactly put you high on the list to earn beatification 100 years after your death. ;)
 
So whats the difference with AoA's avatar, which I thought was slightly out of bounds, and Sultans/AB's Hilter?
 
Wildfire444 --

It was an Avatar of GW Bush w/ a derogatory Title that got Antonius into his latest batch of trouble. Considered an Avatroll, which is against Da Rules.

Per the Mods, he's been banned/warned before, so he is considered to be a consistant pot-stirrer, and (sometimes -- more often than average) a pain in their collective Mod arses.

He managed to avoid a ban after the GW Bush incident by agreeing to use a std Avatar, Title and sig (for awhile at least -- no length of his probation is mentioned.) He pushed the envelope at least a couple times before the latest ban, w/ no consequence. It was probably this thread, which called attn to his situation, which got him banned this time around.

He broke his agreement not to use an Avatar by upgrading to Jesus, and the whole situation was highly visible and public thanks to this discussion of it.

When he returns perhaps he will have a clean slate. Then he can remain Jesus or adopt a new Avatar as desired -- as long as it is not an Avatroll.

Antonius is important to the CFC community. He's a fixture, practically an institution, and apparently helplessly addicted to it. I'm sure he'll be back.
 
Originally posted by WildFire444
So whats the difference with AoA's avatar, which I thought was slightly out of bounds, and Sultans/AB's Hilter?
You thought wrong.
 
Excellent summary of the situation Mojotronica. :goodjob:

The key point is that Antonius got in trouble on April 1st and bought his way out of trouble be agreeing to certain conditions that effectively eliminated the risk of the bad behavior that got him in trouble plus provided some time to perhaps let him understand the important uses of the privileges he got in trouble for abusing.

TF provided us some guidance when he enabled custom avatars when he revealed why that feature took a while to install. I interpret some of his original desires as being that members would still try to maintain some of "Civ"-esque fell to the site while feeling free to use an avatar that reflected the current state of their persona. Using you avatar as a weapon or as a "tool to disrupt, incite, or otherwise agitate" should be discouraged even though it is not always a high priority firts order banning offense.

The problem with avatars and signatures is that they are currently like a broadcast override that effects every post you have ever made on the site. If you post a picture of a big steaming pile of Doberman crap in your avatar, it will show up on every post you have ever made in every forum even if your only real intent was to play some osrt of joke in the posts du jour.

In the new version of vBulletin, the features to assign users to membership groups may be expanded. These groups may allow for better controls of signature and avatar use and this could be beneficial to reflect that these features are privileges that hold great value if used responsibly.

I am solidly on the record as advocating disabling the post count visibility and shifting the custom avatar, signature, and title functions to be membership based. When members register on the site, they join the general membership pool where these functions are not enabled. TF would establish general criteria where members would get moved over to where these special privileges would be enabled but that transition would not necessarily be automagic. Shifting members back out of this privilege set would be an acceptable method short of other disciplinary practices that would eliminate 99% of all the current behavior issues in these areas.
 
Originally posted by cracker
automagic
Typo or not, I really like this word :goodjob:
 
Originally posted by cracker
Excellent summary of the situation Mojotronica. :goodjob:

The key point is that Antonius got in trouble on April 1st and bought his way out of trouble be agreeing to certain conditions that effectively eliminated the risk of the bad behavior that got him in trouble plus provided some time to perhaps let him understand the important uses of the privileges he got in trouble for abusing.

TF provided us some guidance when he enabled custom avatars when he revealed why that feature took a while to install. I interpret some of his original desires as being that members would still try to maintain some of "Civ"-esque fell to the site while feeling free to use an avatar that reflected the current state of their persona. Using you avatar as a weapon or as a "tool to disrupt, incite, or otherwise agitate" should be discouraged even though it is not always a high priority firts order banning offense.

The problem with avatars and signatures is that they are currently like a broadcast override that effects every post you have ever made on the site. If you post a picture of a big steaming pile of Doberman crap in your avatar, it will show up on every post you have ever made in every forum even if your only real intent was to play some osrt of joke in the posts du jour.

In the new version of vBulletin, the features to assign users to membership groups may be expanded. These groups may allow for better controls of signature and avatar use and this could be beneficial to reflect that these features are privileges that hold great value if used responsibly.

I am solidly on the record as advocating disabling the post count visibility and shifting the custom avatar, signature, and title functions to be membership based. When members register on the site, they join the general membership pool where these functions are not enabled. TF would establish general criteria where members would get moved over to where these special privileges would be enabled but that transition would not necessarily be automagic. Shifting members back out of this privilege set would be an acceptable method short of other disciplinary practices that would eliminate 99% of all the current behavior issues in these areas.

With all respect to the authority of the mods. This site is slowly turning totalitarian. Of course, the rules state this is not exactly a democracy, but cracker is stepping over the line. When it's not broken don't fix it. Leave things as they are and maintain the CFC we all know and the mods we love to hate. :love:
 
@ Aphex_Twin: Hmm, hedgehog no longer?

@ cracker: I understand that he broke your agreement, but that kind of "letter of the law" thinking annoys me. Yes, he DID use a custom avatar, which was against your agreement, but he also used Gay Hitler and Jesus. The first one which, well, couldn't really offend anyone except Hitler fans and was purely intended as a joke. The second, well, I can't see any resonable explanation as to why that could be bad.

All I'm saying is maybe you should loosen up the agreement so AB can use a custom avatar as long as its not an avatroll. And let him be funny. ;) :p
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
... maybe you should loosen up the agreement ...
Again you miss the point CG, but that may be by choice.

Antonius chose the path of denying me or TF the opportunity to acknowledge or reinforce the positive side of his behavior and instead went on drunken spree again just a week before someone would try to do exactly what you may have wanted us to do.

Letting Antonius go a month in private without doing anything stupid would not be an unreasonable request.

His choice to publish the restrictions here in this thread in order to draw attention to himself and then try to flaunt the restrictions or gain support from the peanut gallery had him on a collision course with destiny from almost the second he finished typing and pushed the submit button.

No one needed to know that Antonius was on probation or restriction and it would have been inappropriate to hold him up to public ridicule or to try to give him extrra sympathy or attention because he lost the privilege of making free choices with his avatar because he suffered a judgment lapse on April Fools day. One of the reasons that you do not see a public listing of individuals who get in trouble plus their offenses is because many of these individuals thrive on attention both negative and positive.

When someone chooses to make a public spectacle of themselves it is part of this manipulative, pseudotrolling, needy attention grabbing behavior that can be dealt with just as one would deal with an addiction to any other behavior or substance.

You also have to look at the restrictions on Antonius's use of title, avatar, and signature and see them for what they really are and were. The only issue involved in the process was how to get the point across to him that using these privileges for the purposes of trolling and creating controversy would be viewed as inappropriate. Agreeing not use these privileges for any non-standard use effectively got the point across and eliminated the risk of repeat behavior. Punishing him was never the intent beyond getting the behavior to stop. Even now punishing him is not the purpose beyond making it absolutely clear that when there are rules about trolling, avatrolling, leader bashing, and signature/title abuse then these rules apply the Sultan/Antonius just as they apply to others. Being the class avatar clown does not give you the get out-of-jail free card to do things that otherwise would get you banned.

If we could roll back the 8mm film of Antonius's life and let him reconsider the choices he has made in the past month, perhaps things would now be different.

I would reverse the focus of this discussion and ask why we seem to only see this sort of avatar taunting/avatar trolling only among a selected segment of the membersship population?? We see other members change and shift avatars but rarely do we see the dead-baby pictures or borderline image content and deliberately edited troll images except in certain areas. Is there somewhere that this is being learned or reinforced or is it just the result of immaculate conception where someone wakes up and says to themselves "Hey, lets see what sort of rise this little ditty will bring" instead of "How well will this image represent who I am today."

Help me to understand the though process here so that when the next Antonius example comes up, I will be better able to understand the appropriate mamangement reponse that should be applied to what I think was a fairly simple issue in this case.
 
Ohwell,

I did not begin this "big deal", because I did not need the extra "attention" that it provides to reinforce the thread starter. In fact, I have responded here only to help clarify the issue and bring things back on track with the source of the problem.

Perhaps you would care to focus on the issue and help to have the question resolved in an acceptable way that will be easy for you to understand and agree to.

What is the acceptable limit on when avatrolls and leaderbashing would be allowed if there are rules in place that say "No avatrolls and no Leader bashing". If someone breaks the rules is it acceptable for them to voluntarily give up their privileges to use these special privileges without being publicly ridiculed. Is it acceptable to use this method of emphasizing that certain behavior should not occur or should the individuals just be instantly banned or should the mods and admins just delete any unacceptable signatures and avatars that violate the rules.

Should we just ignore all avatars, titles, and signatures and remove the restrictions to try and keep signatures under the limit of no more than 5 lines of standard or small sized text?

Where do the limits really need to be??

Do we need a special membership status for those individuals who want to use these features in ways that may be close to violating the rules even though they may be funny and entertaining to some people? This way we will know who is subject to the rules and who is not.

Enlighten me?? Tell me what you think would be the right thing to do??
 
Again, cracker, I understand what you are saying. I think the deal was too harsh in the first place - maybe keeping extra care to watch AB's avatars, rather than limit the freedom entirely. I say take it case by case, rather than eliminating his right to have a non-civ avatar, especially when its a freedom that TF grants everyone here. (Yes, I know it is generally against the rules to use avatrolls...so keep someone from using an avatroll, not an avatar period!)

Maybe we should edit the cigarette out of my avatar like they edited Abbey Road. :p ;)

Just my two cents, but I'm not a moderator, so...;)
 
Cracker was right, I was wrong.

I made the agreement, and I did not stick to the agreement; as I knew beforehand it might mean getting banned, I got banned and rode out the sentence.

Cracker has forced me to look at the reality of the situation- and remember why I came to the forums in the first place. There is no use making a specatacle out of these permanent details, and the reality is very few posters make the kind of rapid changes I was making; it is disruptive.

I've gone back to my original username/avatar and will stick with that. Probably switch titles around and sigs for sure, but I think we've seen the importance and effectiveness of the "avatroll" rule. Lest we ever have to face the kind of "nightmare scenario" Cracker describes where avatar priveleges are subject to review, let's all keep in mind that this is a gaming site, and not itself a game.

Thanks folks.
 
bah, the wind must have shifted, Sultan Block Antonius Bhargash made an avatar change :lol:
 
this is freakin ridiculous. i leave for a week and everybody acts like children. shows how much i am needed to do the childish things.
 
Well I think changing avatars frequently is fine. The current one I'm using sure isn't gonna last another 48 hours :mischief: Edit: well it didn't even last 48 minutes. cracker didn't like it so I am no longer using Sultan Barghash's avater :p

I for one, was laughing seeing the April Fool avatar. It was simply humorous, unaggressive (though somewhat provocative), and has many people who would completely agree with the statement. It was just a joke, thus the first banning shouldn't have been there in the first place, though that's my opponion and I know I'm not supposed to criticize bannings that don't 'concern' me.

I can see how our beloved (or for some, eternally frustrating) Sultan was punished for not carrying out his end of the deal, but it was a bit of a... oh well I having trouble formulating a well written point, so I'll stop.
 
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