Axman or settler?

[podraza]

Hey gang,

Let me describe my situation. Due to owning a slow computer,I'm used to playing small maps, but recently upgraded and am trying out a standard map. I am playing standard map, continents, Prince, with the Mongolian leader who is creative and aggressive.

My idea was to fight some early wars and destroy other civs while they had 2-3 cities. But that didn't exactly happen and the reason was that I couldn't bring myself to go to war when there was so much perfectly good territory still available to settle. I'm guessing this is a consequence of the larger map, and I'm guessing the larger number of Civs doesn't make up the difference. I've got plenty of room to expand to 6 or 7 quality cities (2-3 resources per) before the AI can get to it.

What's more, the AI is far away from me on the map. So I COULD take an army to him and take his cities, but then they would be so far from my own, I wouldn't be able to consolidate the territory for years and years. And I'm bummed about the situation because I've got an early UU and it seems I won't get a chance to make much use of him.

Now maybe I've just chosen a poor map and game settngs for for my particular Civ. Maybe with the early UUs, you want smaller or more crowded maps, so that earlier war is both necessary and convenient. But as it is, can anybody make any general statements as to whether it is better to capture a city or build your own? If you have quality space available to settle peacefully, isn't that cheaper (and therefore better) than fighting to capture somebody else's?

 

[Wodan]

It's not a bad idea to go to war simply to harrass them, raze a weak city or two, and pillage. The extra money should pay for your troops, you hamstring your opponents, and you give yourself the time to grow your empire without huge distance maintenance costs.

Wodan

 

[bitplayer]

You can always just raise the cities to stunt the ai, while building up back at home, if you want. Or just keep them and keep going on the gold you get while building up back at home as well.

I sort of do a mix of the two most times.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Yeah I wouldn't neglect your own development back home too much, if you just put all your production into an army and raze cities you'll be better off than the AI you're beating on but behind everyone else. Best to continue expanding yourself and capture an enemy city that is placed closer to you later on.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I'd go for expanding too - your UU isn't all that special - it won't be the mainstay of your attacking army, although it will be useful to surgically take out the oppositions vital resources. It will stay useful for this right up until you get knights, so I wouldn't worry too much.

If you have a natural enemy who you are never likely to get much benefit in trading with, you might want to pillage them, raze some cities for cash and build up some experience. But generally by prioritizing Alphabet you will do better by trading and being friends up until they find your swordsmen, catapults and keshiks hurtling over their border.

 

[podraza]

rather than start a new thread, let me sort of shift gears and ask some more questions inspired by this game.

I am having a hard time on the standard maps. I've only recently made the move from Noble to Prince, and have been able to get several convincing wins on the small maps. In those games, I am able to take out one or more neighbors very early, at which point I find myself with much more land than any other remaining competitor, so its only a matter of time before I beat them.

On the standard maps, I have not been able to take out neighbors early, or haven't wanted to. But then I find myself as just another shmuck, rather than the biggest kid on the block. And at Prince, I suck at being just another shmuck. I fall behind in tech and score and everything else. Granted, I whip like a madman, and I think that may have something to do with it, my population is always super small due to the whip. Perhaps it is my small population that drops me behind in tech.

Lets take war out of the picture. On Prince, can you keep up peacefully? I had a monopoly on alphebet and was still way behind. That can't be a good sign.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Having an alphabet monopoly is ok but what are you going to do with it? If you have nothing else of trade value then you might as well trade it and get as much as you can for it unless you want a headstart on The Great Library. But you should make the most of it by looking for 2fers or 3fers.

To keep up peacefully you'll need a decent amount of land to start cottaging so you can keep up in tech, and research things that you can trade around to get other techs, like Philosophy, Education and obviously Alphabet.
You'll probably need to out-culture your nearest opponent so you can steal as many tiles (or hopefully cities) as you can without going to war. It's reasonably easy on Prince, just go for the religious culture multipliers(cathedrals).

 

[InvisibleStalke]

rather than start a new thread, let me sort of shift gears and ask some more questions inspired by this game.

I am having a hard time on the standard maps. I've only recently made the move from Noble to Prince, and have been able to get several convincing wins on the small maps. In those games, I am able to take out one or more neighbors very early, at which point I find myself with much more land than any other remaining competitor, so its only a matter of time before I beat them.

On the standard maps, I have not been able to take out neighbors early, or haven't wanted to. But then I find myself as just another shmuck, rather than the biggest kid on the block. And at Prince, I suck at being just another shmuck. I fall behind in tech and score and everything else. Granted, I whip like a madman, and I think that may have something to do with it, my population is always super small due to the whip. Perhaps it is my small population that drops me behind in tech.

Lets take war out of the picture. On Prince, can you keep up peacefully? I had a monopoly on alphebet and was still way behind. That can't be a good sign.

The overwhipping is probably part of it - you are probably building too many buildings in each city. Each city should have a role and only get buildings essential to that role - so you don't need to whip in a library to a production city, or even your second commerce city until that city has enough cottages to produce some reasonale commerce (unless you need the library to expand borders).

Just because you can whip in everything quickly doesn't mean you should.

You probably also aren't trading enough - and eventually you may as well trade Alphabet rather than let the AI research it on their own.

You probably didn't prioritize Writing and early Pottery enough - by the time you get to Alphabet, you need your early cottages to expand somewhat and you want a library in your capital when you are going for Alphabet.

It might also be that you have too many early cities and have to keep your science low - which is a gamble that may pay off later if you can get courthouses quick enough. Generally I'd recommend no more than three cities by the time you get to Alphabet if you want to get there quickly.