Ayn Rand ?

[newfangle]

Originally posted by cgannon64
Why should I follow a philosophy that only seems to work for people who aren't flawed?
.

Again, I think you missed the point. The philosophy is working awesomely for me, and I am no where near perfect.

Originally posted by cgannon64
When I look at the world I see alot of greedy, flawed people, and they all seem to suffer somehow - whether its going down for some type of crime or just being unhappy.

There's a lot of floating abstractions in the sentence. Firstly, you are assuming greed is bad. I refer you to the movie Wall Street for that. Secondly, you assume that you can tell if someone is suffering. Christianity tells you that if they aren't Christian, they must be suffering. That of course, is false.

Originally posted by Akka
(what's fun, is that they really BELIEVE in this rubbish... And they say religions are illusionary )

That's rich coming from a socialist parasite.

Originally posted by Mescalhead


Which is supposed to be what exactly?

That anything done for selfish reasons is good. i.e., walking into a bank a mowing people down because you want money.

Objectivism shows that dishonesty and criminal behaviour will never contribute to someone's long term best interests, and thus a strict definition of self-interest is maintained.

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by col
I'm really fed up hearing about Ayn Rand. I prefer cooperation over selfishness. Maybe she didnt understand the prisoners dliemma.

What can I say? Its always other people that start these threads.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

I find Rand a bit too idealistic for my tastes; I find the dogma about men not infringing upon the rights of other men to be an infringement on my own rights.

 

[onejayhawk]

I think AR has a fundamentally warped and simplistic concept of reality. She makes the case for individualism in the extreme, ignoring that Man is social. Taken to its logical conclusion, she advocates acting as if civilization is an illusion which is likely to vanish in moments. It strikes me as odd that her ideal is men living like bears, each with a demesne to roam and defend.

J

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by SeleucusNicator
I find Rand a bit too idealistic for my tastes; I find the dogma about men not infringing upon the rights of other men to be an infringement on my own rights.

That's a logical contradiction given the definition of rights.

Originally posted by onejayhawk
I think AR has a fundamentally warped and simplistic concept of reality. She makes the case for individualism in the extreme, ignoring that Man is social. Taken to its logical conclusion, she advocates acting as if civilization is an illusion which is likely to vanish in moments. It strikes me as odd that her ideal is men living like bears, each with a demesne to roam and defend.

J

I've never come across any such thoughts.

 

[IceBlaZe]

How does objectivism function with family?
According to objectivism, shouldn't a dad sacrifice his life for his children? Or should he, for his children are his finest achivement?

I wonder how much good an objectivist dad will be.

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
How does objectivism function with family?

The exact same way a normal family functions. It's one's choice to have children, and if its accidentle one has to deal with the consequences.

Originally posted by IceBlaZe

I wonder how much good an objectivist dad will be.

I know four of them. They all have fantastic kids. You know how to identify an objective parent? One that actually answers when a child asks, "why?"

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
How does objectivism function with family?
According to objectivism, shouldn't a dad sacrifice his life for his children? Or should he, for his children are his finest achivement?

I wonder how much good an objectivist dad will be.

A good father will take immense pleasure in seeing his children succeed, so it's in his best interest to see that they do so, even disregarding all other considerations.

My dad is objectivist. Nicest guy you'll ever meet.

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by onejayhawk
I think AR has a fundamentally warped and simplistic concept of reality. She makes the case for individualism in the extreme, ignoring that Man is social. Taken to its logical conclusion, she advocates acting as if civilization is an illusion which is likely to vanish in moments. It strikes me as odd that her ideal is men living like bears, each with a demesne to roam and defend.

J

Rand does not ignore that man is a social animal. She holds rational human interaction in the highest regard imaginable.

Her ideal is man living as he wants to, respecting another man's to do the same. An ideal I really can't find fault with.

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by SeleucusNicator
I find Rand a bit too idealistic for my tastes; I find the dogma about men not infringing upon the rights of other men to be an infringement on my own rights.

 

[The Yankee]

Not being totally familiar with this...but I offer a guess at the father question. It will be in his best interest to succeed because hopefully, those children will get so rich, they'll start giving him massive amounts of free stuff.

And the whole pleasure thing.

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by The Yankee
Not being totally familiar with this...but I offer a guess at the father question. It will be in his best interest to succeed because hopefully, those children will get so rich, they'll start giving him massive amounts of free stuff.

And the whole pleasure thing.

True, but compared to the pride of the ultimate "job well done", the free stuff wouldn't matter all that much

 

[IceBlaZe]

The objectivistcentre site doesn't contain too much info...
Where can I find more info on objectivism?
Particulary mutuality of objectivism with other philosophies, ideas and systems.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by col
I'm really fed up hearing about Ayn Rand. I prefer cooperation over selfishness. Maybe she didnt understand the prisoners dliemma.

I hoped someone else got that feeling.

 

[thestonesfan]

Hey archer, how about you give us all a laugh and tell us what she says you don't agree with?

 

[Archer 007]

That we should all behave like animals.

 

[thestonesfan]

I must have missed that part of her writings.

 

[Archer 007]

Working only for self and forsaking others seems pretty carnal to me.

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by archer_007
Working only for self and forsaking others seems pretty carnal to me.

*As Archer contructs a strawman and blows the sh!t out of it with a flamethrower.*

Please explain to me, with examples, how it is in my best interests to "forsake" my fellow man.

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
The objectivistcentre site doesn't contain too much info...
Where can I find more info on objectivism?
Particulary mutuality of objectivism with other philosophies, ideas and systems.

The best thing to do is google certain essays written on the subject.

"The Objectivist Ethics" is a decent essay to start with, and it is critiqued quite fairly by another philosophy.

You could also try www.aynrand.org , under the "Objectivism" link.