AZ-01: Donut World

eznihm · May 29, 2007

playing now.. will edit this later

edit: 7 turns in:

450 BC: MM as guided, CoL in 1 turn coming up, starvation in Persepolis. since scouts are in danger and on a hill i upgraded them with hills defense. they could make it. =) started moving troops north east into homeland.

425 BC: Schweitzer dead by archer. we found confuscionism.

elephentine recon: 2 archers

great prophet pops in persepolis

400 bc: hatty offers corn for cows.. why not? she'll never get suspicious.

whip library in susa

building cottage in krak.

375 BC: more troop movements.. we pull ahead in score. add specialists in susa for math.

350 BC: heliopolis recon: 2 archers

325 BC: oracle and math come. get Civil Service. switch to beuracracy.

4 archers in thebes.. the horses in Egypt aren't finished yet!

300 BC: light MM, reducing science

275 BC: troop movement

250 BC: killed barb archers

225 bc: several immortals produced

200 bc: they finished the horses.
i want to declare war, i just don't feel capable at this point. not enough units for a sustained invasion. i'm ending my turnset. i'll try to pay attention and learn something.

azaris · May 30, 2007

Good work on nabbing Civil Service, eznihm. I do think we have a sufficient army to take out any of the AI civs bar Alexander, we just need a concentrated attack.

Right now it's the distance maintenance that kills us. CoL finished several turns ago and we still have no courthouses - I suggest we whip some up ASAP.

THE ROSTER:

azaris
Orion071
dawn
Sealot
Aoxomoxoa
eznihm (just introduced bureaucracy to people who can't work iron)
Codeman (UP for 10 turns, let us know if you're too busy and I'll pick up the save)

Sealot · May 30, 2007

azaris said:
Don't forget you need CoL to get Civil Service. A potential for .

My mistake, I was still dreaming we would get currency with oracle

Somehow just forgot about CS, but looks sexy now that we got it.
Why are we researching HR? I think we should get currency or cats now, most likely currency first so we can solve our health problems and we don't need cats yet at this war as we are going to attack asap.

I think we have enough immortals to take down Hatty. They only have a pityfull 2-3 archers in smaller towns and only 4 in Thebes. Next players choice to attack or wait, it can't hurt much if we wait a few turns though.

eznihm only played 10 turns :confused:

Oh well, I guess it won't change the worlds face!

dawn · May 30, 2007

Take the war to Hatty. :hammer:

We have 11 Immortals right on the border with Hatty. They can take out an archer near Heliopolis, capture the worker between Thebes and Heliopolis, and end the turn on the horses following the war declaration. The axe up near Elephantine should head for the copper and take it out.

Don't forget about Hatty's warriors down in our territories. Easily taken out by the "home guard".

Note that Freddie has a settler party to the East of Persepolis.

Agree that we should switch from HBR to Iron Working or maybe Alphabet. :dunno:

Just don't see why HBR as we have Immortals. Need cats or swords for continued conquest.

But hey, I'm just learning to be a warmonger! :help:

I'm here to learn!

Aoxomoxoa · May 30, 2007

Not to mention pillage money. I made over 100g pillaging around Brennus's capitol.

Aoxomoxoa · May 30, 2007

Ironworking. Pretty soon we're going to be seeing swordsmen.

Codeman · May 30, 2007

i should have time this evening (6 hours from now). if something changes i'll let you know, otherwise i'll play/post tonight.

Orion071 · May 30, 2007

Hey, guys, I'm back now. Good job so far. I'm going to look at the latest save and offer up some suggestions for what we should do next.

Codeman · May 30, 2007

home now. will wait an hour or 2 before playing.

Orion071 · May 30, 2007

OK, I've read through the thread quickly, so some of this stuff may have been discussed before. Feel free to tell me and I'll shut up.

First of all, St. John needs to be settled somewhere and he probably should have been settled immediately. Prophet super specialists give 5 gpt. That's huge for our stuggling economy. Yeah, he could build the Confucian shrine, but we've only got 3 cities with it right now and we don't want to have to worry about spreading it. Just settle him in a production city somewhere. The Great General should be settled in the capitol so units out of there get 2 promotions. The other option is a level 3 medic. Maybe the medic first and settle the next one.

Second, we should be researching Iron Working. We're going to have to finish the AI's off with Swords, and we need Iron to do it. Fortunately, we already have a source of Iron, we just don't know it. If you look at Karakorum, it's working a plains tile with a mine. That's means that there's Iron there. After that should be Alphabet. Even if you're not going to trade with the AI's, Alphabet is good to have so you know what the AI's have. In fact, we could get Alphabet and trade it for Iron Working. Alphabet is also useful because we can then bribe Civs like Alex into starting a war for us. He'd probably attack Fred for us so we can keep them both busy while we take out Hatty. Our next goal after Alphabet is Construction. We'll need Catapults to finish off the world. Cats, Swords and Immortals are all we'll need. In my practice game, I left Rome for last (oops) and even Praetorians are no match for enough Catapults. After Construction (need Masonry 1st) we can shut off science.

OK, cities: Every city except Persepolis needs to stop making Immortals and build Courthouses. Now. We don't have a single Courthouse and that's killing us. Pasargadae should slow-build it (only 6 turns) and the others should be whipped ASAP. Karakorum had a Barb destroy a pasture? It needs to be fixed. We don't need all 5 cities building Immortals. Karakorum and Susa should be science cities. They need a Courthouse and a Library and then they need to run cottages and even Scientists when they reach their happiness limit. The others can handle the troops.

Military: We have more than enough now to take out Hatty. Karakorum, Persepolis and Thracian need a garrison of 2 Immortals each for Barbarian protection. Pasargadae only needs 1 and Susa can make due with its Warrior (it can be reinforced from anywhere if needed). The rest should go to Hatty. Hatty seems to have a 5th city on the SW corner of the lake (see the 1 square of culture?), but it won't matter. Start at Elephantine and work your way around clockwise. Raze everything but Thebes - it has 2 health resources we need and Marble and it's a Holy City, plus it will be a forward base for the rest of the campaign. It will need a Courthouse whipped ASAP of course. So gather everything near Elephantine and attack!

OK, I'm done. Discussion?

Codeman · May 30, 2007

orion, great assesment. :goodjob:

i've had a busy night (family stuff) and no time to play. if you want to take my spot go ahead as i don't have time tonight. the week after a holiday always brings a busy week.

i haven't had a chance to look at the save but everything you said sounds accurate.

Orion071 · May 30, 2007

If you can't play tonight or tomorrow then we can skip you and have azaris play. I'll take my spot after his. If you can play tomorrow then let us know and we'll keep the roster as it is.

Sealot · May 30, 2007

Why swords over axes?

Aoxomoxoa · May 31, 2007

Sealot said:
Why swords over axes?

Because

1. They're better

2. He knows that we have them immediately hooked up as soon as we learn iron working. It's the mine in the flat plains square north of Karakorum.

azaris · May 31, 2007

Got it, will play later after work.

I agree with Orion about basically everything. The point behind swords is that eventually we have to take Athens, which is on a hill and has phalanges and archers in it. We can't attack with Immortals due to the phalanges tearing them to shreds, and we can't attack with axemen due to the archers. It's still going to be rough going with swordsmen alone, so let's try and get catapults before push comes to shove.

dawn · May 31, 2007

Should we raze all the Egytian cities (except the Holy City)? Leaving those holes could allow for barbs to move into the spaces or other AI. Maybe be selective on which to raze? :dunno:

I've not done a true warmonger type of game so I'm unclear as to when to stop and rebuild the enconomy - if you even do that. Or do you simply press onward at every opportunity?

Having fun and learning as we go!

Orion071 · May 31, 2007

dawn said:
Should we raze all the Egytian cities (except the Holy City)? Leaving those holes could allow for barbs to move into the spaces or other AI. Maybe be selective on which to raze?

I've not done a true warmonger type of game so I'm unclear as to when to stop and rebuild the enconomy - if you even do that. Or do you simply press onward at every opportunity?

Having fun and learning as we go!

In this particular game, we won't need to rebuild our economy. We'll pretty much just plow through everyone until we win. Barbs may be a problem, but our Immortal garrisons can handle everything except a Barb Swordsman, which should be pretty rare.

After looking over the game again, I have a couple more comments:

1) We should probably convert to Confucism. It will give 3 of our cities +1 happy and will even give us a diplo bonus with Hannibal. Alex and Fred don't have a religion so the only penalty is with Hatty (who will soon be irrelevant).

2) We should definitely switch to Alphabet first. Not only can we probably get Iron Working and Masonry (for Construction) immediately, but at least Hatty has Monarchy as well. (see the Winery built in Elephantine) It wouldn't surprise me if she's the only one with it, though. Maybe after we take her 4 visible cities, we should see if we can get it from her in a peace treaty.

Azaris, I agree that we save Alex for last and hit him with Swords and Catapults. Heck, we could even go to Macemen if we really had to. I doubt that will be necessary.

Codeman · May 31, 2007

i will play it this afternoon.

azaris · May 31, 2007

Since Codeman is available to play after all I guess this is an "I don't got it". Waiting for your report...

Wait, Confu is the world religion? I guess it's because we razed the holy cities of Judaism and Hinduism :nono:

Too bad we don't really need our newfound spiritual supremacy. Yeah, go for Alphabet first.

THE ROSTER:

azaris (on deck hoping there are still some AI civs left when he gets the turn)
Orion071
dawn
Sealot
Aoxomoxoa
eznihm
Codeman (UP for 10/15 turns, whichever he feels is appropriate for the situation)

Codeman · May 31, 2007

okay. thought i would be difficult and not play 10 or 15.

i played 13 (from turn 107 to turn 120).

here is the auto log for those who want to read it...

Spoiler :

for those who don't...

declared war on hatty. took all but 2 of her cities (she had war chariots from the start and defensive bonus in every city). built courthouses (only 1 not completed). went from 100 or so gold (and running 20%) to almost 500 gold. i think you can get the idea from the pictures.

who wants to read a log anyway?

couple cities fall...

at the end of my set abc's come in...

which shows what the world has, wants... i make no trades, leaving this for group discussion. as suggested may want peace with tech or just finish her off and so on...

and score so far...

and power so far...

and then a look at the war effort...

and what i scouted of our neighbor, hannibal...

and the prep for a war with him...

AZ-01: Donut World

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