I don't understand what you mean. Yes, a single war with anyone can be hard - but once they're beaten once, you can keep them beaten forever (reduce them to one city, and burn EVERY tile they have). After that, I don't see how you can really consider them a "major" Civ - they will never recover, and if you declare on them every 10 turns, then 10 turns after you've won another free Golden Age. You need to devote maybe 3 or 4 units to ensure the beat-down and prevent their expansion while you use your main army to fight other wars.
Aztecs
- Thread starter black213
- Start date
I don't understand what you mean. Yes, a single war with anyone can be hard - but once they're beaten once, you can keep them beaten forever (reduce them to one city, and burn EVERY tile they have). After that, I don't see how you can really consider them a "major" Civ - they will never recover, and if you declare on them every 10 turns, then 10 turns after you've won another free Golden Age. You need to devote maybe 3 or 4 units to ensure the beat-down and prevent their expansion while you use your main army to fight other wars.
Even if that's true, which I'm not exactly sure it is (civs usually refuse to negotiate peace if you keep attacking them for some reason), this would definitely count as an exploit and is definitely not something the AI can handle.
JungleBucks
Warlord
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Reporting in after finishing a game with the Aztecs. I think the civ is phenomenal. At first I scoffed at the tiny bits of faith and gold I was generating from barbs, but all of that faith and gold pile up in a major way, to the point where I didn't even try to rush religious buildings because I was so utterly secured. The golden age from favorable treaties was also crucial to me. I was making a ton of gold and happiness from what soon became 24 turn golden ages, and I knew my happiness was going to take a hard dive in a few turns, but I was able to capitulate one of my rivals, thus setting me up to continue my warring. Their UU isn't the best, but honestly, I don't see the need to change them.
On an unrelated note. I WENT FROM 3 HAPPINESS AND 700 GPT TO -137 HAPPINESS AND -1000 GPT THANKS TO AN UNAVOIDABLE SOCIAL REFORMS DECISION THAT COMPLETELY RUINED MY WAR AT SOME POINT.
Just had to get that off of my chest. Events really have a tendency to ruin my day sometimes.
On an unrelated note. I WENT FROM 3 HAPPINESS AND 700 GPT TO -137 HAPPINESS AND -1000 GPT THANKS TO AN UNAVOIDABLE SOCIAL REFORMS DECISION THAT COMPLETELY RUINED MY WAR AT SOME POINT.
Just had to get that off of my chest. Events really have a tendency to ruin my day sometimes.
This is what I used to do as Aztecs, but to be fair I haven't played as Aztecs in recent versions, so it might not work; but it was definitely true when I did it and had perma-golden ages.
JungleBucks
Warlord
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Karma is a female dog
I guess it's not too bad. Sure my culture, gold, and science generation was ruined, and my army turned to garbage, and I couldn't really produce anything, but I did get a whole ONE AND A HALF turns worth of culture, so I'd say everything balanced out.
(But in all seriousness, I think I'm quickly preferring to NOT have all this RNG in my games, positive or negative. The effects are just too drastic sometimes, but I've already made my complaints in the events thread.)
Never seen the event you're talking about (I think) and I've never had an event make that big of an impact, so I wouldn't know. I just felt like responding and making a joke.
JungleBucks
Warlord
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I don't remember the text by heart, but basically, the premise was the following.
A series of radical social reforms have been suggested that can improve your empire, but they risk alienating your people. The two options are the following.
Option 1: Do nothing. (This option that was grayed out for reasons I hadn't known because this was an earlier version of the events system that didn't explain this kind of stuff.)
Option 2: Go with the reforms. Gain 1200 culture. 20% chance of revolution.
With only one available option, I reluctantly go with the reforms, only to cause a massive revolution in my 23 cities. I've had this event show up before, and with 7 or 8 cities, it's not too bad. At such a large scale however, the effects are ridiculous.
Okay, I've gotten that plenty of time, never bothered me at all.
JungleBucks
Warlord
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Well, it certainly bothered me.
That was majorly unfair bullony that happened.Dawnbringer
Warlord
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So I've played Aztecs like quite a few times. They're fairly strong early game, but they drastically drop off starting mid game. They don't get any better and it feels like they just get worse and worse after turn 100. Their strength early on isn't even that much stronger than the other civs since their uniques are basically scouts with a little more combat power but a lot less mobility (since they get affected by terrain other than forests/jungles, unlike their scout counterpart).
While the golden age is good, it feels like you have to "farm" a civilization repeatedly in order to even compete with others. Their UB and UU are both subpar and their UA isn't as great as I first thought it to be.
While the golden age is good, it feels like you have to "farm" a civilization repeatedly in order to even compete with others. Their UB and UU are both subpar and their UA isn't as great as I first thought it to be.
Aldebaran1997
Prince
Sorry, but I still can't agree with you. There is peace treaty which prevent declaring war on same civ, and its term is longer than UA GA. In addition, even the weakest civ never accepts a peace treaty for short period from beginning of war.(I don't need to mention how long delay to win is.) So, if you can keep GA through win, you should manage your prey 3 or more.(I don't know how many civs you have to manage.) In other words, you WIN this game ALREADY. And even like this case, if you were Greece or Zulu or other direct-war benefit civs, you could win this game easier.(Yes. This is exactly why this argument starts. Azteca UA has no benefit for achieve any victory condition.)
Aldebaran1997
Prince
I don't think so. But I have another idea. How about adding vassalage UA? I always want interesting UA for interesting feature.(Just suggestion. I know Gazebo doesn't change perfectly working UA.)
Vassalage is definitely not a core function of the mod the way spying, city-states or religion is. To me adding adding a UA based around vassalage is kinda like adding a UA based around random events, some people don't enjoy it so they disable it.
JungleBucks
Warlord
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I used the faith I was generating to build an easy religion focused on war, and the only reason I stayed afloat long enough to get an early domination victory was because I used golden ages to stay afloat in currency and happiness. (And let's not forget you have buildings to help golden ages. Mine's were going on for 24 turns at a time by the late medieval era.)
Yeah, the UA isn't directly focused on war, but it has it's war based benefits.
Aldebaran1997
Prince
Yeap, I fully understand.
I guess that's the thing - the GA I got when I played Aztecs in an earlier version was the same 10 turns as the Peace Treaty, so if you have two people to beat up, it's easy to maintain.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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Current version Floating Gardens are a bit troublesome.
The bonuses on it are so big that the entire game becomes unchallenging once you get it. Everything you want built creates itself because of how much production you're getting, your cities are the biggest of all despite facing Aztec/China and working mostly Mines. If you also got lots of river tiles or, heavens forbid, lakes, then your cities will get to 20+ long before Medieval. And for that pop you get lots of production so it's never a waste.
+1F/+1P per 2 citizens just scales too well, it should be 1 per 3 at most, but it'd be better if it just got another base +1F+1P. I liked playing Aztecs before but now I had to nerf them in the XML to enjoy them again.
The bonuses on it are so big that the entire game becomes unchallenging once you get it. Everything you want built creates itself because of how much production you're getting, your cities are the biggest of all despite facing Aztec/China and working mostly Mines. If you also got lots of river tiles or, heavens forbid, lakes, then your cities will get to 20+ long before Medieval. And for that pop you get lots of production so it's never a waste.
+1F/+1P per 2 citizens just scales too well, it should be 1 per 3 at most, but it'd be better if it just got another base +1F+1P. I liked playing Aztecs before but now I had to nerf them in the XML to enjoy them again.
It is kinda the only thing they have going for them however.
I mean yeah the numbers looks absurd on paper, but with how boring I know the rest of the civ is I haven't even managed to drag myself into trying it out.
Besides, if you're not going for tradition (and going for tradition kills any possibility of early-game aggression, and by extension your entire UA) I don't think your cities are going to grow fast enough for this to actually be a problem.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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Eh, it's not really boring. Bonus Faith/Gold per kill is a lifesaver for my aggressive Authority ways early game, and it's not like 1F/1P per 3/4(with another buff) citizens instead of 2 would make it any less or more boring.
Also I must disagree about Tradition being needed. It's not. Try it out, two Authority games (Emperor) in a row I had the biggest pop and production (popduction?) by late classical with no effort, only two lake tiles, barely any rivers and despite no Artemis. One game (in this one I nerfed 1pop to equal 34% of 1F/1P) I also had the biggest pop, but this time I had more rivers than the typical Communitas-script created drylands.
It's just not very fun to play when buildings get created almost as soon as you decide you want them in every FG city.
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