[NFP] Babylon First Look

[UWHabs]

Some fun beelines:
archers->machinery->metal casting for bombards+pike/shot
beeline to feudalism for knights. Kill a unit with a knight for super fast cavalry
Ancient walls to get engineering. Aqueduct to get military engineering. armory for gunpowder. Get a military engineer to pop a couple forts down and you have cuirassier/gattling guns (and Rangers with a niter mine)
Getting your universities down to rush to printing press/astronomy
2xHarbor->Caravel (adding in lumber mill->shipyards->ironclads)

Of course, we saw all this, but some of these are slightly dependant on terrain too. You can't rush for Rangers if you have no niter nearby. And just because you can unlock cavalry super early, if your cities are only getting 10 production per turn because it's still the classical era, that cavalry is going to take a buttload of time to build or upgrade into, especially since the 50% upgrade card won't come until normal.

 

[Amrunril]

Finally, a scientific civilization capable of clashing with Korea.

On the other hand, I think the Eureka of Babylon bonus is much more powerful than that of China, I think China needs a little more love there.

I think China's in a fine place in terms of power level/balance. Their leader ability is really strong, and their UA applies to civics and well as techs and doesn't include any debuff to normal science generation. I do agree that their UA now seems really bland by comparison, though.

The design of Babylon is really creative, absolutely strong and fun to play/plan, and I like asymmetry abilities in general.

However, I cannot feel anything really "Babylonic" from this design - "Eureka give full science" can be applied to any Scientific civ with no problem, "Free building and envoy" can be applied to any Builder/Diplomatic civ with no problem. It looks like these abilities are just directly attached to Babylon with no deeper considerations.

The only Babylonic design in the whole Babylonic toolbox is the unique watermill. And the bonus of the said unique watermill - all freshwater tiles +1 food - is still very generalistic and can be applied to any other Agriculturalist civ.

Personally, I feel the whole design of the Babylon is really fun and really boring the same time.

I don't know the thematic explanation for the free buildings, but it fits well mechanically, since pursuing Eurekas will encourage you to get a lot of different districts faster than you otherwise might. It also helps establish an infrastructure subfocus to the civ design. The envoy side of the ability, feels kind of disjoined, though, as if they felt like districts without buildings needed to give something but weren't sure what.

 

[bite]

My Thoughts about Babylon are HERE but that Eureka bonus is groundbreaking

We should get Hittites and the Assyrians, then the ancient Mesopotamia area is well rounded off.

*nervous eye twitch appears for no reason*

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1326936921856237569?s=20

Hammurabi's Agenda is "Cradle of Civilization." Likes civs who build every type of district. Tries to build all of them himself. Oh, and interesting fact -- the AI has tuned out to be very strong at playing Babylon. It jumps to a big early game science lead.

 

[UWHabs]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1326936921856237569?s=20

Hammurabi's Agenda is "Cradle of Civilization." Likes civs who build every type of district. Tries to build all of them himself. Oh, and interesting fact -- the AI has tuned out to be very strong at playing Babylon. It jumps to a big early game science lead.

Yeah, the AI getting massive boosts to production should help them grab a bunch of eurekas. And they're penalized less for putting campuses in terrible locations.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

As pillaging yields so many gold/ chopping yield so much production, it's easy for Babylon to upgrade one or two to some insanely advanced units. (Pike & Shot, Cavalry)

Then as those units seem invulnerable they can pillage insanely amount of golds, then smash everything out, in ancient era.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I'm glad it doesn't, because it would totally invalidate & outclass Trajan's ability.

Nope - Trajan gets them in every city, Babylon only the first (and City Center doesn't count for some strange reason).

Do they not know how eureka aware we are?

We are the 1% ....

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1326936921856237569?s=20

Hammurabi's Agenda is "Cradle of Civilization." Likes civs who build every type of district. Tries to build all of them himself. Oh, and interesting fact -- the AI has tuned out to be very strong at playing Babylon. It jumps to a big early game science lead.

At least we'll have a challenge, hehe...

 

[The Highwayman]

Like Civs that build every district type? Does that mean Hammurabi will be wondering why I haven't constructed an aerodrome turn 10?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

My Thoughts about Babylon are HERE but that Eureka bonus is groundbreaking

Don't think this is quite right:-

When you build a type of district for the first time it comes with the tier-1 building and a free envoy.

It's a free building OR an envoy depending on the District type.

EDIT: This sentence peters out before the end:-

While I am sure the fact that you get 50% less science-per-turn is a good

2nd EDIT: I love how quick you get these up and really appreciate them!

 

[bite]

Don't think this is quite right:-



It's a free building OR an envoy depending on the District type.

Ah I miss-read the tool tip, will have to go in do an edit

 

[ehecatzin]

I really like the versatility, you could go either way with the strategy, heck even religion gets a boost early on with the free shrine. I can't help to think China got Spain'ed. they both could use some love with the coming of Babylon and Byzantium.

 

[Guandao]

@Zaarin I'm betting they outsourced the dialogue to a Mexican Voice Actor..... Like they did with Gilgy. And presumably Ashurbanipal and Nebby in Civ5.

I wonder if all the Akkadian names for the abilities and uniques are correct?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Might be a fun 1cc civ

 

[Nikolai II]

Screenshot of abilities:

View attachment 575230

Anything on how strong the UU is, besides the buff mentioned?

 

[bite]

@Zaarin I'm betting they outsourced the dialogue to a Mexican Voice Actor..... Like they did with Gilgy. And presumably Ashurbanipal and Nebby in Civ5.

I wonder if all the Akkadian names for the abilities and uniques are correct?

From what I could find yes (but I could not see a clear entry for the UU)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Anything on how strong the UU is, besides the buff mentioned?

It looks great. I probably won't even build scouts to explore with. I assume that since they didn't describe the technology that unlocks it, it will be a starter unit.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I think China's in a fine place in terms of power level/balance. Their leader ability is really strong, and their UA applies to civics and well as techs and doesn't include any debuff to normal science generation. I do agree that their UA now seems really bland by comparison, though.



I don't know the thematic explanation for the free buildings, but it fits well mechanically, since pursuing Eurekas will encourage you to get a lot of different districts faster than you otherwise might. It also helps establish an infrastructure subfocus to the civ design. The envoy side of the ability, feels kind of disjoined, though, as if they felt like districts without buildings needed to give something but weren't sure what.

To be fair, Mesopotamia during Hammurabi's reign was inhabited with plenty of City-States. Hammurabi is also known for his cunning in diplomacy and was able to gain several cities through trickery and flattery.
Check out these videos for more information:

 

[8housesofelixir]

I really like the versatility, you could go either way with the strategy, heck even religion gets a boost early on with the free shrine. I can't help to think China got Spain'ed. they both could use some love with the coming of Babylon and Byzantium.

I have seen a lot of similar opinions, but I wouldn't say China got Spain'ed - the strongest ability of China is the snowballing effect of the 1 free builder change, rushing early wonders, as well as the ridiculous output of the Great Wall. 40% Eureka is no more than icing on the top. Only few civs can compete with China in terms of these abilities - if anything, China is still a 1st tier civ, while Spain is not a 1st tier civ to begin with.

 

[Guandao]

From what I could find yes (but I could not see a clear entry for the UU)

Maybe this website could help?
http://leefigs-minis.blogspot.com/2012/08/later-amorite-1800-1750.html

It's about time we ditched the generic "Bowmen" for Babylon.