Balance patch discussion and goals
- Thread starter mystikx21
- Start date
IDk that there is any other post about exploration and it's effects. Ruins and resource hidden locations. The new items he put into it and some of the modified pantheons really power up city states and less than perfect AI cities. The additional delegates from the tribes mechanic. I figured that since we were referencing CEP to discuss balance ideas implementation I'd throw JFD's hat into the ring. The additional luxury resources and the use of trading post/town improvement to acquire them (feathers) change (break?) the balance of the happiness per luxury system. Like G said about CEP (paraphrase) "Take what we want and leave the rest out" and in this case I am pretty sure JFD is our ally. His current work is all compatible with CP and his ExCE mod is dependent on CP.
Opera
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
Yes, for sure, but I doubt that will be how Gazebo proceeds in this case. ExCE is still being developed after all, it wouldn't be fair to JFD to just take parts of it.
Additional compatibility on Gazebo's end could happen but I'm not sure what's his stance on the subject.
Additional compatibility on Gazebo's end could happen but I'm not sure what's his stance on the subject.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Yer... CEP doesn't have quite as regular attendance as does ExCE. It may be a while, but I do have some notes I mean to address with regard to CBP compatibility, including the Feathers thing. I'm happy to work on making ExCE more CBP compatible, as I am with Piety and CulDiv, but I'd prefer to do it myself... I mean... I made ExCE public so that it could be used, and I made it compatible so that it could be used on its own. All I need is some direction as to what needs supporting beyond what I've done already.
Great scouts let you use gold to have settlers again, remove the option to buy great scouts and upgrade them with gold and it would mesh better with CBP.
The feathers thing is cool. I'd like to have the option of connecting resources with a trade improvement. If other resources including existing ones were usable through this option it would give the resources 2 different uses. Sheep are a trade centric item I was thinking of specifically. I was actually bringing up the mod because I wanted to discuss the possibility of incorporating the tribes element. I personally think that the more votes available on map the more fun the WC is. Their ability to give you additional bonuses as units unlock are also cool.Their inclusion would give the diplomatic victory option more depth and our armies/cities more flavor.
I think I could be more coherent but I just got out of the lab and I got solder in my brain.
The feathers thing is cool. I'd like to have the option of connecting resources with a trade improvement. If other resources including existing ones were usable through this option it would give the resources 2 different uses. Sheep are a trade centric item I was thinking of specifically. I was actually bringing up the mod because I wanted to discuss the possibility of incorporating the tribes element. I personally think that the more votes available on map the more fun the WC is. Their ability to give you additional bonuses as units unlock are also cool.Their inclusion would give the diplomatic victory option more depth and our armies/cities more flavor.
I think I could be more coherent but I just got out of the lab and I got solder in my brain.
Three things:
G
- CEP and CBP aren't the same thing (CEP is Thal's old mod that is, ultimately, abandoned, whereas CBP is the project here).
- The fact that CEP is abandoned is why we decided to extract elements from it (though, to be honest, little to nothing of CEP remains in CBP).
- JFD's mods are still in-development - I would never take things for CBP from a mod being developed, as that would cripple compatibility. JFD has stated that he's working on compatibility, though it is up to him to decide if the time investment is worth it.
G
Opera
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
How would you feel about compatibility patches for your civs & CBP? That is, in the cases where UUs aren't quite in sync with the regular unit/building they replace. Would you rather be told and do it yourself? It seems the most logical decision but you seem busy enough
That said, maybe there isn't this problem with your mods. I'm a bit iffy about using new civs with CBP so I didn't get around to try any yet besides Tomatekh's Xia (which had some issues although nothing gamebreaking).
Yeah I do know the difference.
The developers have abandoned(?) it, not necessarily the players. That they liked the CEP as a player (I think) is why it is being referenced in this balance discussion by mystikx21.
In that case I will move the discussion to talking to JFD about his mod. I wasn't thinking "take" as much as "incorporate" some of the components that the general community (possibly) wants and could possibly help balance the CP which ExCE requires. I also assumed that any use of his work would include JFD's cooperation like maybe moving said components from ExCE to CP (thus not causing compatibility issues).
I was kinda hoping that both CBP and ExCE would be balanced together and I thought that it was a relevant discussion. Hopefully some people will read this thread and check out ExCE. It really complements the CSD. I would like to see exploration advance into reconnaissance, and scouts to become relevant combat units. However, I guess those are the things I should talk with JFD about.
Another mod that has the same kind of potential for balance improving incorporation is HNR. It adds some resources and mechanics (but is a little out of sync with ExCE{the Oak and Cedar from ExCE/ the Oak from HNR[which is a better implementation IMO]}) many players might find desirable and also is a child mod of CBP.Nobody even wants to know what kind of idea I had for all this I was talking about? 
See... In ExCE there are "Tribes" a stategic resource that appears as an imporvement on the map and represents a culture that is (in game terms) smaller than a city state. when you control that tile you get a bonus for working the improvement, and access to a consulate. The consulate is a building which confers a special bonus to your civilization based on hat tribe it belongs to. Some allow unique units, others give yield bonuses, ect. They also each provide 1 vote in the WC.
In HNR iron isn't used directly to build units, instead you use it to make metalwork. A new strategic resource called oak (idk y not timber) is also included. Oak is used to make lumber. These produced strategic resources are then used to produce units.
So the 2 features that I think could be incorporated into CBP's UU UA UB collection are the mechanics working with the tribes and the secondary resources.
Like Some of the diplo civ's would want some interaction with the tribes. Extra votes for a consulate? Idk just spitballing..
Rusiia gets double strategic resources.. so she has extra iron. produces more metalwork. boom.
But lets say a notably industrious society (current real world numbers say china is one of these) would perhaps produce twice the metalwork out of each iron.
"How does this help balance tho dude?" well there are less civ's per niche if you add 2 more niche so you can change their effects more without stepping on other's toes.
See... In ExCE there are "Tribes" a stategic resource that appears as an imporvement on the map and represents a culture that is (in game terms) smaller than a city state. when you control that tile you get a bonus for working the improvement, and access to a consulate. The consulate is a building which confers a special bonus to your civilization based on hat tribe it belongs to. Some allow unique units, others give yield bonuses, ect. They also each provide 1 vote in the WC.
In HNR iron isn't used directly to build units, instead you use it to make metalwork. A new strategic resource called oak (idk y not timber) is also included. Oak is used to make lumber. These produced strategic resources are then used to produce units.
So the 2 features that I think could be incorporated into CBP's UU UA UB collection are the mechanics working with the tribes and the secondary resources.
Like Some of the diplo civ's would want some interaction with the tribes. Extra votes for a consulate? Idk just spitballing..
Rusiia gets double strategic resources.. so she has extra iron. produces more metalwork. boom.
But lets say a notably industrious society (current real world numbers say china is one of these) would perhaps produce twice the metalwork out of each iron.
"How does this help balance tho dude?" well there are less civ's per niche if you add 2 more niche so you can change their effects more without stepping on other's toes.
I have other ideas that probably don't apply to this balance discussion, but don't really belong on JFD's ExCE thread or Horem's HNRlite thread. Namely making the two compatible completely. Where should I have said discussion (if others are willing to discuss)?
Delekhan
Prince
ExCE is an amazing mod. It adds tremendously to the game's atmosphere and sense of discovery, especially combined with Cultural Diversity.
I have found some incompatibility issues, such as the AI not settling (fixed by turning attrition off on all terrain, you can still leave wind in the ocean on though) and the Conscription Policy's Free Capital Ranged Unit not triggering.
I have found some incompatibility issues, such as the AI not settling (fixed by turning attrition off on all terrain, you can still leave wind in the ocean on though) and the Conscription Policy's Free Capital Ranged Unit not triggering.
In fact I don't really know what Cul Div does. The description in the mod introduction is quite unclear.. So apart from splash screens and different music.. What else does it do?
JFD
Kathigitarkh
It has an explicit list of what he includes - it's mainly an aesthetics mod, but also provides extra mod support for custom civs that otherwise don't have support. I don't know how compatible the starting bonuses portion of the mod is (each group begins with something over other groups, like a certain tech) with CBP, and I should probably take a look, but it can be disabled in the meantime.
TheErwO_o
Chieftain
Hi, I have enjoyed CBP for a few weeks now and it is great. However, there is one thing I don't get: Why does the player get free happiness for playing on epic or marathon?
I recently played a game on marathon game speed (slightly modified/unit production 150%, building construction times 200%) and emperor difficulty, and not even once did I drop below 10 Happiness, even though I was annexing and founding cities left and right.
I don't really understand why CBP included this bonus in the first place. Bigger Population because of slower gamespeed? Or did my modified unit and building construction speed screw with the balance of the mod?
I would appreciate if someone could explain this to me.
Either way, thank you for this great mod CPP-Team.
I recently played a game on marathon game speed (slightly modified/unit production 150%, building construction times 200%) and emperor difficulty, and not even once did I drop below 10 Happiness, even though I was annexing and founding cities left and right.
I don't really understand why CBP included this bonus in the first place. Bigger Population because of slower gamespeed? Or did my modified unit and building construction speed screw with the balance of the mod?
I would appreciate if someone could explain this to me.
Either way, thank you for this great mod CPP-Team.
