Bar lounge

[2metraninja]

I did not saw the episode yet, but I know what was going to happen and I was waiting for this episode for 2-3 weeks already. ANd I gave little hints to my friends who are not read the book to expect something paramount and yet, I got 3 of them call me and tell me WTF!!! What was that! I cant believe! How could they?!? Hahah... Little they know...

Spoiler :

I found the whole situation quite a Scottish. I remember reading somewhere about a Scottish wedding from the middle ages where 2 clans were fighting for over 200 years and decided to marry two of their young ones to make a bond between the clans and end that terrible conflict. To encourage the bonds between the clansmen, they have arranged the seats to be mixed - one man from clan1 and next to him man from clan2 and so on - all men bordering men from the other clan. But the hidden agenda of those proposing this was that they gave each of their men one long knife to be hidden in his clothes. After the party started and much wine was poured, on a given signal all men from the one clan drew their knives and stuck it in the heart of the man sitting left to him. In a blink of an eye one of the two warring clans was totally and utterly wiped out.

 

[dratboy]

2metra, your friends will really lose their minds when

Spoiler :

Tyrion escapes from the black cells

!!! Slightly envious of those who have not read the books - they are only just now experiencing the shock.

 

[2metraninja]

Yep

Spoiler :

And especially shocked will be Sommers


BTW, looking to see the episode, as I was told by people who are read the books that even for them the Red Wedding was made really shocking.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Spoiler (for watchers not readers as I haven't read the books):

Spoiler :

That wedding reminds me of what Sir Jorah Mormont said when Dany got married... "Dothraki wedding without 3 deaths minimum is a dull affair" ... This wedding was brutal even by Dothraki standards ++++ :suicide: = WTF!!! Tywin Lannister-, The Hound - , Arya Stark -

This was a really good way to come back into it after two long weeks with no episode (because of US holiday). Hahaha, I was like a drug fiend needing his GoT fix

Another Spoiler for watchers not readers:

Spoiler :

That whole episode reminds me of Shakespeare... everyone dies at the end At least one person went out like a warrior though, taking at least one enemy with her though she knew it was pure doom. I like how the gut next to Kat (was his name Beaumont?) sort of shrug his shoulders at her and nods for her to check his sleeve to find his chainmail waistcoat, hidden and ready for battle... what a d!ck Why did he show her that? To gloat?

I like what they did with this episode very much BTW, focusing on a few storylines and ignoring the rest. It gets too jumbled when they try to show all the storylines in one episode.

I think the biggest shock for me of the episode (spoiler)

Spoiler :

was the always honourable Jon Snow riding off and leaving his lady in the lurch... even after she risks her life to fight at his side!! WTF was that?!?

 

[YossarianLives]

I've been without HBO for the past month, so I am way behind on the episodes. I can't wait to move into my new place so I can catch up on HBO Go. I hope the show did the Red Wedding justice. It was beautifully written in the book. It was definitely one of the hardest scenes to read.

Spoiler :

I was thinking about this today. The individual death that shocked and upset me the most was probably Rhaego. He was the Stallion That Mounts The World. He was the Prince That Was Promised. How could a character whose future was prophecied and so sure die before he ever got out of the womb. After that, I don't think any individual death really shocked me, since that taught me that GRRM will kill the characters even that he assures the reader will live.

 

[YossarianLives]

I did not saw the episode yet, but I know what was going to happen and I was waiting for this episode for 2-3 weeks already. ANd I gave little hints to my friends who are not read the book to expect something paramount and yet, I got 3 of them call me and tell me WTF!!! What was that! I cant believe! How could they?!? Hahah... Little they know...

Spoiler :

I found the whole situation quite a Scottish. I remember reading somewhere about a Scottish wedding from the middle ages where 2 clans were fighting for over 200 years and decided to marry two of their young ones to make a bond between the clans and end that terrible conflict. To encourage the bonds between the clansmen, they have arranged the seats to be mixed - one man from clan1 and next to him man from clan2 and so on - all men bordering men from the other clan. But the hidden agenda of those proposing this was that they gave each of their men one long knife to be hidden in his clothes. After the party started and much wine was poured, on a given signal all men from the one clan drew their knives and stuck it in the heart of the man sitting left to him. In a blink of an eye one of the two warring clans was totally and utterly wiped out.

You're pretty much right about that. GRRM says that it was based on the Black Dinner.

 

[Maga_R]

2metra, your friends will really lose their minds when

Spoiler :

Tyrion escapes from the black cells

!!! Slightly envious of those who have not read the books - they are only just now experiencing the shock.

Yes, dratboy, I am not "Unsullied" but that was one of the biggest shocks for me so far - departure from GRRM's apparently well-established pattern of regularly killing the currently most likable character. Although to make it a bit less sweet, he did make the said character a bit less likable afterward ...

Season finale tomorrow - cannot wait

 

[Maga_R]

I've been without HBO for the past month, so I am way behind on the episodes. I can't wait to move into my new place so I can catch up on HBO Go. I hope the show did the Red Wedding justice. It was beautifully written in the book. It was definitely one of the hardest scenes to read.

Spoiler :

I was thinking about this today. The individual death that shocked and upset me the most was probably Rhaego. He was the Stallion That Mounts The World. He was the Prince That Was Promised. How could a character whose future was prophecied and so sure die before he ever got out of the womb. After that, I don't think any individual death really shocked me, since that taught me that GRRM will kill the characters even that he assures the reader will live.

They did RW justice And I agree about Rhaego. It is actually really strange - I am anything but supertitious in RL - but somehow I was deeply shocked that not all the prophecies seem to come true in aSoIaF. Well done, GRRM

 

[Maga_R]

This was a really good way to come back into it after two long weeks with no episode (because of US holiday). Hahaha, I was like a drug fiend needing his GoT fix

Another Spoiler for watchers not readers:

Spoiler :

That whole episode reminds me of Shakespeare... everyone dies at the end At least one person went out like a warrior though, taking at least one enemy with her though she knew it was pure doom. I like how the gut next to Kat (was his name Beaumont?) sort of shrug his shoulders at her and nods for her to check his sleeve to find his chainmail waistcoat, hidden and ready for battle... what a d!ck Why did he show her that? To gloat?

It was Lord Roose Bolton, Lord of Dreadfort and Warden of the North, whose house sigil is the flayed man.

I think the biggest shock for me of the episode (spoiler)

Spoiler :

was the always honourable Jon Snow riding off and leaving his lady in the lurch... even after she risks her life to fight at his side!! WTF was that?!?

I completely agree with the sentiment - but I am afraid this is the typical idea of "honor" - at least in the Western literature :-( Abandon your family, often by leaving your loved ones in a very literal danger, to fight for some abstract cause :-( Glad to see that this idea is now shocking at least to some men

 

[Sommerswerd]

It was Lord Roose Bolton, Lord of Dreadfort and Warden of the North, whose house sigil is the flayed man.

Ah! My wife and I have watched the episode like 3 times trying to figure out what the he!l that figurine in Robb Stark's War room was with the guy upside down on the torture rack.

Spoiler :

She kept saying "That must be where Theon Greyjoy is' which made sense because he was tied to a similar rack, but it did not make sense for so many other reasons (among which was that Robb didn't seem to know about Theon being captured.)

I have been puzzling about that all week, and I didn't want to go to the spoilery blogs to look it up.

Now I know... It symbolizes Bolton's bannermen.

Spoiler :

Now I see why people think that the torturer is Bolton's kin. But that still does not answer why he felt the need to show his sleeve to Kat Stark in advance other than to gloat or mock her before she died.

 

[2metraninja]

Well, it must have been clear Bolton is expecting the war to go bad for the Starks the moment he accepted Jamie as honored guest in Harenhall and asked him to only tell his father he did not lost his hand because of the Boltons.

About his chainmail, I think it was uncovered my mistake, not on purpose. I did not show him making something special. At least in the book it is accident.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well, it must have been clear Bolton is expecting the war to go bad for the Starks the moment he accepted Jamie as honored guest in Harenhall and asked him to only tell his father he did not lost his hand because of the Boltons.

About his chainmail, I think it was uncovered my mistake, not on purpose. I did not show him making something special. At least in the book it is accident.

You know, I did not even make the connection at first...

Spoiler :

of him being the same one that released Jamie until the 3rd time I watched the episode, but it makes more sense now that I know he is a Lannister sympathizer

But anyway in the show, Kat looks at Bolton with fear and puzzling in her eyes when the Lannister song plays and then the Lord of "The Twins stands to talk.

Then he looks at her with a guilty sort of smirk and looks down at his sleeve, sort of inviting her to look at it. Then she notices it is thick and pulls it back to find the chainmail. Then I think their eyes meet again and he is sort of smirking at her and she jumps up and slaps him silly (ala Kat the Great in BTS )

 

[Maga_R]

About his chainmail, I think it was uncovered my mistake, not on purpose. I did not show him making something special. At least in the book it is accident.

I did not remember the book version, but as 2metra I did not think Lord Bolton showed his chain mail on purpose. My reading was he just did not bothered to try to make up some story justifying it - if I remember correctly the TV versions, doors were already closed, Rains of Castamere playing - so what that Catelyn learnt she is going to die a couple minutes earlier? Actually, that was the sadistic reason to play the Rains of Castamere in the first place :-(

I actually think they should make it more obvious in the TV show - I think in the book, Catelyn says something like: "Why are you playing it? This is a Lannister's song" - while in TV version they relying on viewers making the connection without even hearing the words :-( But other than that Red Wedding was done very well, I think.

And congratulations on a very smart wife, Sommers

 

[Sommerswerd]

I did not remember the book version, but as 2metra I did not think Lord Bolton showed his chain mail on purpose. My reading was he just did not bothered to try to make up some story justifying it - if I remember correctly the TV versions, doors were already closed, Rains of Castamere playing - so what that Catelyn learnt she is going to die a couple minutes earlier? Actually, that was the sadistic reason to play the Rains of Castamere in the first place :-(

I actually think they should make it more obvious in the TV show - I think in the book, Catelyn says something like: "Why are you playing it? This is a Lannister's song" - while in TV version they relying on viewers making the connection without even hearing the words :-( But other than that Red Wedding was done very well, I think.

And congratulations on a very smart wife, Sommers

Yea I was getting a clue at about the same speed as Lady Stark... maybe a little faster

Spoiler :

when the doors closed I was thinking ... Uh oh *Admiral Akbar voice* It's a TRAP!! (I even said to my wife that I think this is some kind of trap), so when the Reynes of Castamere song started playing and my wife asks..."Hey isn't that the Lannister song? Why would they? Do you really think its a trap?" Then poor Kat looks at Bolton as if to say "Hey Bolton old pal do you have a funny feeling about this? Are we in danger? " Then he lets her see the chainmail and shrugs, smirking at her as if to say... "Uh no... WE aren't in anything... I'M in on it... YOU on the other hand are in deep doo-doo "

I think the reason they didn't say it out loud in the show is because you can actually hear the song (as opposed to when reading) that's just my guess.

Anyway it was a really really great scene.

 

[2metraninja]

Anyway it was a really really great scene.

Yeah, GRRM rocks!

I have been listening to an interview of his lately and he said something very interesting: that everyone writes what he would love to read. So, GRRM really do loves dark RL medieval scenarios. Talking with a friend about that I remember a RL scene from Scottish history resembling the red wedding, he sent me a link to another interview with GRRM, where he confirms, that the red wedding is inspired by 2 RL events from the Scottish history

 

[Maga_R]

Yea I was getting a clue at about the same speed as Lady Stark... maybe a little faster

Spoiler :

when the doors closed I was thinking ... Uh oh *Admiral Akbar voice* It's a TRAP!! (I even said to my wife that I think this is some kind of trap), so when the Reynes of Castamere song started playing and my wife asks..."Hey isn't that the Lannister song? Why would they? Do you really think its a trap?" Then poor Kat looks at Bolton as if to say "Hey Bolton old pal do you have a funny feeling about this? Are we in danger? " Then he lets her see the chainmail and shrugs, smirking at her as if to say... "Uh no... WE aren't in anything... I'M in on it... YOU on the other hand are in deep doo-doo "

I think the reason they didn't say it out loud in the show is because you can actually hear the song (as opposed to when reading) that's just my guess.

Anyway it was a really really great scene.

I do not think I would be able to recognize the song with captions saying which one it is - but I am very unmusical And generally you and your wife are doing very good for "Unsullied" - that is how some of the book readers call those not "sullied" by knowing the book version of the story

The one thing that was great in books but probably impossible to do on TV is the "Mayhaps". I used to think it was just a strange speech mannerism by Walder Frey, but thanks to some very observant soul - and generous enough to put this brilliant observation on the internet - I now know better

Spoiler :

A bit before Red Wedding in the books, we see Frey boys - taken hostage by Robb - playing in the Stark camp. They are playing with the Northern boys and during the play - that seems completely inconsequential page filler at the time - they explain to the Northern boys that you only have to keep promises if you would not add "Mayhaps" at the end of them (I guess English meaning would be "I am not promising it to you, I just maybe promising it"?). Anyway, couple chapter later, we see Walder Frey welcoming Stark party to the Red Wedding. He promises them his hospitality and safety - as he did on TV - but at the end of the sentence he adds "MAYHAPS" Loved it

 

[Sommerswerd]

I think "mayhaps" = maybe+perhaps

 

[Maga_R]

I think "mayhaps" = maybe+perhaps

Thanks! could not find it in any dictionary

Spoiler :

Yeah, "I promise that perhaps maybe I will not hurt you" would be a very fitting meaning to Lord Frey's promise

Sommers, as a native speaker, can you tell me if the "mayhaps" casually attached at the end of a promise to honor hospitality rules would ring alarm bells in your head? Nobody seem to read it that way in the book.

 

[YossarianLives]

Yeah, GRRM rocks!

I have been listening to an interview of his lately and he said something very interesting: that everyone writes what he would love to read. So, GRRM really do loves dark RL medieval scenarios. Talking with a friend about that I remember a RL scene from Scottish history resembling the red wedding, he sent me a link to another interview with GRRM, where he confirms, that the red wedding is inspired by 2 RL events from the Scottish history

Umm, do you mean me, a few posts up?

You're pretty much right about that. GRRM says that it was based on the Black Dinner.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Maga I thought the same thing