Barbarian Spawn Rate Remains Insane

[Japper007]

Your difficulty level is? You know playing on Immortal and above is supposed to be difficult, right?

From the patchnotes last recent patch:

• Barbarian difficulty has been updated to scale with each difficulty level. (Warlord, Prince, King etc...)

This would be relevant if AI challenge rose in equal proportion to Barbs, sadly it does not. They are more an annoyance than an actual gamewrecker in SP ofc, but do we really want to just build the game around annoyance?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It's very relevant - I'm really interested see what Barbarian activity is like at each level.

 

[Giskler]

It also depends on how many civs/city states are near you. I've found that if I start with few neighbours then the barbs are hell on earth with camps everywhere. More neighbours means more tiles revealed which means less chances of camps spawning.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I found barbs very easy to deal with as the Cree because of their awesome UU. I was bopping barb scouts all over the shop, it was grand.

 

[Softly]

Last night I had a great start as the Cree. Then a barbarian horse camp spawned right next to the Giant's Causeway. Never realized that barbs can also get the +5 combat strength. Wiped out all of my military units except for one archer in my capitol. Normally I could come back from this but I spawned in between Chandragupta and Shaka. Don't think I've ever had an immortal game I wasn't confident I could win. Going to try to see how I can come back from this.

 

[Cyberian]

I found barbs very easy to deal with as the Cree because of their awesome UU. I was bopping barb scouts all over the shop, it was grand.

Yes they are great but its still extremely tough. Did a Cree game on Deity+Huge yesterday and while I was in a war with an AI there was like 5 Barb units flanking me between my units and my capital. Its really hard dealing with both the AI and Barbs at the same time on Deity. And you have to do early war on Deity else you are toast but I really feel the Barbs cost you too much time. I would say so far Deity became much harder because of barbs but I must try a few more times to make sure it wasn't just bad luck. But I probably do have to go back down to Immortal.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Yes they are great but its still extremely tough. Did a Cree game on Deity+Huge yesterday and while I was in a war with an AI there was like 5 Barb units between my units and my capital. Its really hard dealing with both the AI and Barbs at the same time on Deity. And you have to do early war on Deity else you are toast but I really feel the Barbs cost you too much time. I would say so far Deity became much harder because of barbs but I must try a few more times to make sure it wasn't just bad luck. But I probably do have to go back down to Immortal.

I can imagine them being a nightmare on deity, I tend to stick to King/Emperor.

 

[Cyberian]

I can imagine them being a nightmare on deity, I tend to stick to King/Emperor.

They are a strong contender though. Early Mekewaps are great for +1 prod + 1food +1gold +1 housing you get occasionally even had one tile where I got +2 food and the free trader you get is insane as it greatly boosts you second city growth and you can even trade with a city state before if you go pottery first for extra tiles and had extra faith and earlier pantheon in one game because of it.

They are really a great Civ not as OP as Montezuma but amazing.

 

[pgm123]

I've never been able to kill a barbarian scout before it gets back to its encampment. My scouts are usually on the other side of my starting position, or my warrior just eats its dust...I don't see how that's even possible in the ancient era.

I've done it a few times and it's immensely satisfying. You need to cut them off so that you're in between the scout and the camp. Chasing them won't do. I don't know if I'd call it a viable strategy, though. You're better off going scout first to find all the camps.

 

[bonafide11]

I like the aggressive barbarians, but I wouldn't be opposed to it starting a tad later than it does. Sometimes I have a scout on my door 5 turns into the game and my warrior on the other side of the map so I can't chase him down and kill him. Then I know it's just a matter of time until hordes of barbs are at my door.

 

[jozef57]

lol same in my case with free cirys on my scot border 4 korean ciry revolted independant they spawn so many unitis i am overrrun re they not just defend but atack me on and on no let up[ working so hard to try not to loose capital that other victory win is lost i think hahaha it is something we have to get used tooaly can not produce enough to stop them..

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've heard they cut the resource acquisition distance of camps, is that true?

What I really want to know is: can you still get scouted on turn 4-5 and have barbs in your face before doing anything is even possible? As long as that was/gets resolved, there's enough counterplay with barbs to make them reasonable.

 

[bonafide11]

What I really want to know is: can you still get scouted on turn 4-5 and have barbs in your face before doing anything is even possible? As long as that was/gets resolved, there's enough counterplay with barbs to make them reasonable.

Yes, from my experience. It's very frustrating. I don't mind the aggressive barbs, but at least give me a chance to defend myself and explore my immediate surroundings before I'm being bombarded.

 

[Cyberian]

Yes, from my experience. It's very frustrating. I don't mind the aggressive barbs, but at least give me a chance to defend myself and explore my immediate surroundings before I'm being bombarded.

Everyone has a starting warrior though.
That said I would like your Capital to always have a Ranged attack.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Everyone has a starting warrior though.
That said I would like your Capital to always have a Ranged attack.

You can not put your starting warrior on 3-4 sides of your capital at once.

If the scout hits in the first 5 turns, you will get a flood of barb units that necessitates altering build order substantially to deal with it.

This will never kill a good player, but it does significant permanent damage to progression rate in the game...and in contrast with literally any other moment in the game with regards to barbarians it has no counterplay. You just eat a massive penalty to your starting growth curve on RNG alone.

That's shoddy. If you lose your settler or get scouted on turn 25 that's on you, but this sub t5 nonsense is poor design.

 

[Victoria]

I've heard they cut the resource acquisition distance of camps, is that true?

What I really want to know is: can you still get scouted on turn 4-5 and have barbs in your face before doing anything is even possible? As long as that was/gets resolved, there's enough counterplay with barbs to make them reasonable.

They have cust the distance and scouts can still say hello at any time

 

[steveg700]

Your difficulty level is? You know playing on Immortal and above is supposed to be difficult, right?

From the patchnotes last recent patch:

• Barbarian difficulty has been updated to scale with each difficulty level. (Warlord, Prince, King etc...)

That game is on Immortal.

I'm not sure what that patch note is supposed to be saying. Upscaled how?

 

[steveg700]

You can not put your starting warrior on 3-4 sides of your capital at once.

If the scout hits in the first 5 turns, you will get a flood of barb units that necessitates altering build order substantially to deal with it.

This will never kill a good player, but it does significant permanent damage to progression rate in the game...and in contrast with literally any other moment in the game with regards to barbarians it has no counterplay. You just eat a massive penalty to your starting growth curve on RNG alone.

That's shoddy. If you lose your settler or get scouted on turn 25 that's on you, but this sub t5 nonsense is poor design.

Okay, this is pretty much what I was trying to say.

The barbs weren't going to destroy the empire, but a sudden vomitus eruption of barbs does sort of rip the steering wheel off the column for a good ten rounds at least. And meanwhile, Cleo is sitting there watching all the notifications of civ's finishing wonders and generally going about their merry business.

 

[bonafide11]

You can not put your starting warrior on 3-4 sides of your capital at once.

If the scout hits in the first 5 turns, you will get a flood of barb units that necessitates altering build order substantially to deal with it.

This will never kill a good player, but it does significant permanent damage to progression rate in the game...and in contrast with literally any other moment in the game with regards to barbarians it has no counterplay. You just eat a massive penalty to your starting growth curve on RNG alone.

That's shoddy. If you lose your settler or get scouted on turn 25 that's on you, but this sub t5 nonsense is poor design.

This is what essentially happened to me in my current game. After barbs discovered my capital so early on, I had to focus on so many warriors and slingers right away that it really kept me from building scouts, settlers, builders, and monuments, which then delayed everything else. I've been playing catch up with the AI since right away then. Sure it's a challenge, but I just feel like my game shouldn't be that hamstrung by something completely out of my control before I have a chance to really get started.

 

[Iberian]

As TMIT and others alluded to the real problem is that barbs drastically alter the game in a way that isn't fun. I am one of those who will often go slinger/builder/settler early because the rewards are so high. Works about 90% of the time but sometimes it is really hard to keep the scouts from hailing a massive army of cavalry to your doorstep. Typically when the cavalry show I don't even bother dealing with them and just deal with them destroying the 3 plots I improved and continue with my build order.

Can you build units and defend easily? Yes. Does it make your game fun? No, it sets you too far back to come close to a good ROI. Maybe just setting the camps to not allow resource spawned units till to 40 would be fair.