Barbarians with double movement in rough terrain are broken

[a3kov]

It's very easy to lose your starting pathfinder to 2+ barbarians. If you get unlucky and meet more than 3 barbarians together, you can lose the warrior too. Because of their supernatural vision they can easily box my unit blocking any ability to retreat, if my Pathfinder doesn't have Trailblazer 2 yet and no extended sight to spot them before they are too close. And the fact they ignore rough terrain means I can't use it to escape either.

These situations just ruin your start with no ability to minimize losses other than to build the units again, which slows down early turns too much. Since it's luck based and there's not much a player can do, I find it imbalanced.

Usually I just restart in these situations. I don't understand the purpose of this mechanics, other than to randomly screw you over. The game might as well just randomly display "Game over" popup.

 

[CrazyG]

I think it's really dumb that the desert barbarians get 4 movement on floodplain and oases

 

[CppMaster]

I agree. Let's keep barbarians simple and just improve their CS if needed.

 

[azum4roll]

Some of their units are weaker than non-barbarians, like Archers and Swordsmen, for some reason.

 

[Cokolwiek]

I don't agree. Lost my initial pathfinder 20 turns in, in my last deity photojournal, didn't cried about it. Barbarians should be a menace. From thematic point of view, they are savages so good orientation and living in the wild warrants they double movement. And you can see it in their promotions if you are not sure where to move your units.

 

[CppMaster]

I don't agree. Lost my initial pathfinder 20 turns in, in my last deity photojournal, didn't cried about it. Barbarians should be a menace. From thematic point of view, they are savages so good orientation and living in the wild warrants they double movement. And you can see it in their promotions if you are not sure where to move your units.

How can you see promotion tooltips on enemy unit? I can only see icons which doesn't tell me anything if I don't already know it.
It's ok for barbarians to be a menace, but it would be better if it's less random. Maybe a good consessus would be if those special promotions were enabled with raging barbarians option.

 

[Cokolwiek]

How can you see promotion tooltips on enemy unit? I can only see icons which doesn't tell me anything if I don't already know it.

No tooltips. You can see icons. Additional tree is double on forests, additional tree with a lighting-like sign or dots, I don't remember, is deserts. You have those promotions at the bottom of civilopedia.

EDIT: What the hell, are you a female human being?

 

[CppMaster]

No tooltips. You can see icons. Additional tree is double on forests, additional tree with a lighting-like sign or dots, I don't remember, is deserts. You have those promotions at the bottom of civilopedia.

Good point, I forgot about that, but it's not really convenient to keep track of promotions of units. Maybe I should use that mod that displays promotions on units, but I remember crashes caused by memory.
Just checked civilopedia, a tree is double movement on forest and jungle, a cactus is double movement on desert and a pentagon allows embarkation.

EDIT: What the hell, are you a female human being?

No, sorry, straight male, but keep looking, someone there is for you :* I must have miss-clicked the gender on my profile and I thought that you are referring to my inability to recognize icon as a female trait

 

[Cokolwiek]

a cactus is double movement

It's a tree with dots

No, sorry, straight male, but keep looking, someone there is for you :*

I already have one, but the difference between me and ElliotS is that I don't want my girl to play Civ. I would have lost my respect for her if she would lose on emperor. In real life she's the more intelligent of us however (she has more Jewish blood than me), I couldn't stand being with someone who is less intelligent than me.

 

[CppMaster]

I would have lost my respect for her if she would lose on emperor.

Ouch! Your kids won't have an easy life

 

[Cokolwiek]

Ouch! Your kids won't have an easy life

Of course, boys would either beat deity before reaching seventh birthday or I would eat them alive like Saturn did . If they pass, they could start playing Dark Souls and enter military-run elementary school with Spartan ideals . Another checkpoint would be dating a Rothschild heiress before turning 21 .

 

[CppMaster]

Dark Souls is much easier than beating VP Deity. Dark Souls takes about 40h for the first time, so it's like 2 games of VP. I don't expect anyone to beat Emperor difficulty on 2nd VP game in their life. Learning from online sources also count as time spent to master the game.
An ultimate challenge could be to be a world champion of SC2 You could spend an entire life learning how to play it and it still doesn't guarantee success.

 

[Cokolwiek]

I don't expect anyone to beat Emperor difficulty on 2nd VP game in their life.

I did. With America, forest heavy start, crab monopoly. But it was before redoing of ABC bonuses so the game was easier. And I was vanilla deity player.
But in Dark Souls there is a rage quit potential every second, while in VP analytical tranquility grants you a win or at least very good performance.

SC2

Starcraft 2? I don't even touch that. They are people in Korea born and bred solely to master this game. And what a waste of their life, they could enjoy Korean national wonder of Twice and eternal bunny beauty and self-confidence of Im Nayeon.

 

[CppMaster]

I did. With America, forest heavy start, crab monopoly. But it was before redoing of ABC bonuses so the game was easier. And I was vanilla deity player.

And how much time have you played vanilla? Count that in.

But in Dark Souls there is a rage quit potential every second, while in VP analytical tranquility grants you a win or at least very good performance.

Not really. Tranquility, learning weapons and enemies is the way to play DS. I was conservative while playing, taking it slow, building my character, so it took me 50h. Whole game was very satisfying.

Starcraft 2? I don't even touch that. They are people in Korea born and bred solely to master this game. And what a waste of their life, they could enjoy Korean national wonder of Twice and eternal bunny beauty and self-confidence of Im Nayeon.

Yep. The best players are about 90% Koreans. It's very popular there. For me that's the greatest game ever, so definitely not a waste of time, but I don't even know what are you talking about as an alternative

 

[Gidoza]

Brood War all the way man. Thumbs down to SC2!!!!!

 

[Cokolwiek]

And how much time have you played vanilla? Count that in.

I don't know really. But it was on and off through nine years, with several years long gaps.

Not really. Tranquility, learning weapons and enemies is the way to play DS. I was conservative while playing, taking it slow, building my character, so it took me 50h. Whole game was very satisfying.

I was quite liberal when it comes to dying.

Yep. The best players are about 90% Koreans. It's very popular there. For me that's the greatest game ever, so definitely not a waste of time, but I don't even know what are you talking about as an alternative

Don't google it, spare yourself from being conquered by Korean cultural superiority. Or generally Asian as Twice have five Korean, three Japanese, and a Chinese member.

 

[CppMaster]

I was quite liberal when it comes to dying.

Like an Ironman mode in Xcom? Yeah, that won't work in DS You are expected to die a lot

Brood War all the way man. Thumbs down to SC2!!!!!

That's where my love to SC in general comes from Although BW has become too clunky after getting used to SC2. I know that many people think this clunkyness is a good thing, but I don't. And from statistics we know that majority don't like that too.

 

[InkAxis]

I think we should get back on topic lol.

I definitely agree the main problem is not that the barbs are too difficult, but too random. If the promotions were just changed to something that gives the more CS. Or perhaps it could be partial: the movement promotions would be heavily reduced, but they would get more CS to balance it out. But the first solution is simpler.

 

[DeAnno]

I think it's really dumb that the desert barbarians get 4 movement on floodplain and oases

The worst is actually how bad these barbs wreck the AI, I've seen CSes fight a Composite longbow with Desert mover for ages. Also my ultimate Deity fear is Desert mover horses appearing out of the fog and striking at practically infinite distance to kill a caravan and spawn another barb.

 

[Cokolwiek]

The worst is actually how bad these barbs wreck the AI, I've seen CSes fight a Composite longbow with Desert mover for ages. Also my ultimate Deity fear is Desert mover horses appearing out of the fog and striking at practically infinite distance to kill a caravan and spawn another barb.

The counter to that I employ is to just have as much territory revealed around your cities by units, I sometimes delay exploration for that. Barbs cannot spawn when there's no fog of war, either by the city-state units, AI scouts, or your units. It would be a nightmare to have late classical barb camp spawn between your cities.