[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[Zaarin]

Would Korea, Mongolia, Netherlands, Georgia, Maya, Iroquois and Ottomans all have female leaders?

Do you think my 8 likely Civs is a Eurocentric lineup?

Well, Korea and Georgia definitely; Maya and Iroquois maybe; and Netherlands and Ottomans not inconceivably.

At least you have Korea, Mongolia, and Phoenicia in there. (Personally, I don't think we'll see Phoenicia. Who would lead them? Hiram of Tyre is really the only probable choice, and what we know about him is basically "he sold Solomon some wood and lent him some craftsmen, one of whom was also named Hiram." I'd be a little surprised to see the Celts--or Gauls or any Celtic civ--in this particular EP as well, but I wouldn't rule them out.)

 

[Guandao]

Well, Korea and Georgia definitely; Maya and Iroquois maybe; and Netherlands and Ottomans not inconceivably.

At least you have Korea, Mongolia, and Phoenicia in there. (Personally, I don't think we'll see Phoenicia. Who would lead them? Hiram of Tyre is really the only probable choice, and what we know about him is basically "he sold Solomon some wood and lent him some craftsmen, one of whom was also named Hiram." I'd be a little surprised to see the Celts--or Gauls or any Celtic civ--in this particular EP as well, but I wouldn't rule them out.)

The lack of a Tyre, Sidon, Byblos City-states in Civ6, does make me wonder though. Unless those will be in the Carthaginian City-List. Did Carthage ever ruled their homeland?

Armagh becoming a City-state really surprised me. I never heard of it before. And Edinburgh, Cardiff, Dublin aren't City-states or part of England's City-List, so they are probably ending up in the Celtic City-list again.

 

[Vahnstad]

My prediction

Netherlands
Korea
Mongols
Byzantium
Canada
Kilwa
Georgia
Colombia

Still in the race:
Oman
Portugal
Iroquois
Hittites
Ottomans
Maya / Inca
native NA
Mali

Byzantium / Kilwa could be replaced with Portugal / Otto

 

[Zaarin]

The lack of a Tyre, Sidon, Byblos City-states in Civ6, does make me wonder though. Unless those will be in the Carthaginian City-List. Did Carthage ever ruled their homeland?

No, Carthage's colonial empire was in the western Mediterranean: North Africa west of Egypt, southern Iberia, Sicily (briefly)...I suppose "Phoenicia" led by Hannibal Barca isn't entirely out of the question (cf. Barbarossa leading Germany), with his capital at Carthage but with the Canaanite, Egyptian*, and other eastern Mediterranean Phoenician cities in his city-list. It would be a strange solution, but one that could work. Or they could really go with Hiram of Tyre. Or make an even stranger choice with Jezebel...even though she never lead any Phoenician city-state but was queen-consort of Israel.

Armagh becoming a City-state really surprised me. I never heard of it before. And Edinburgh, Cardiff, Dublin aren't City-states or part of England's City-List, so they are probably ending up in the Celtic City-list again.

*Daphne in Egypt spoke a Phoenician dialect. Byblos was in Canaan and spoke a Phoenician dialect but culturally and politically had closer ties with Egypt than Tyre and Sidon. If they do may a Phoenician civilization, I'd still rather see Byblos made a city-state for that reason.

 

[Kheznik]

I couldn't help but notice that the palace building in this screenshot bears an uncanny resemblance to the hôtels de villes of Quebec.

(the hôtel de ville in Sherbrooke, QC, for example)

Now of course the Civ VI screenshot likely depicts a Russian city (according to the presence of several lavras), and this might not mean anything, or this could mean that Russia's new city architecture is shared with someone else. I'm not too familiar with Russian architecture, but the palace building in the screenshot certainly doesn't remind me of anything "Russian".

The Canada ride never ends!

 

[Guatenadian]

Wow @Kheznik I never even thought of that. But your absolutely right, maybe the Kremlin/St. Basils Cathedral alongside the Lavra only threw us off. The more "European Architecture" would fit Canada better than the Congress palace the US has. It even has the green copper roofs that are very common throughout Canada.

 

[ferretbacon]

I couldn't help but notice that the palace building in this screenshot bears an uncanny resemblance to the hôtels de villes of Quebec.

(the hôtel de ville in Sherbrooke, QC, for example)

Now of course the Civ VI screenshot likely depicts a Russian city (according to the presence of several lavras), and this might not mean anything, or this could mean that Russia's new city architecture is shared with someone else. I'm not too familiar with Russian architecture, but the palace building in the screenshot certainly doesn't remind me of anything "Russian".

The Canada ride never ends!

I just loaded up a Russia game I had and can confirm that the palace in the screenshot is different than the palace that's currently in the game. Still, why would a Canadian palace be modeled off a hotel? Why the Lavra?

Edit: now I'm looking up Russian palaces... doesn't seem to match the Winter Palace or Catherine's Palace...

 

[Kheznik]

I just loaded up a Russia game I had and can confirm that the palace in the screenshot is different than the palace that's currently in the game. Still, why would a Canadian palace be modeled off a hotel? Why the Lavra?

A hôtel de ville is just the French term for a town/city hall. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[ferretbacon]

A hôtel de ville is just the French term for a town/city hall. Sorry for the confusion!

Ah, it had occurred to me that perhaps "hôtel" was not the same thing as "hotel," but I thought it was a safe assumption.

 

[WillowBrook]

I couldn't help but notice that the palace building in this screenshot bears an uncanny resemblance to the hôtels de villes of Quebec.

(the hôtel de ville in Sherbrooke, QC, for example)

Now of course the Civ VI screenshot likely depicts a Russian city (according to the presence of several lavras), and this might not mean anything, or this could mean that Russia's new city architecture is shared with someone else. I'm not too familiar with Russian architecture, but the palace building in the screenshot certainly doesn't remind me of anything "Russian".

The Canada ride never ends!

Nice observation! I may need to revise my list. Canada is looking more and more likely...

 

[luigilime]

I couldn't help but notice that the palace building in this screenshot bears an uncanny resemblance to the hôtels de villes of Quebec.

(the hôtel de ville in Sherbrooke, QC, for example)

Now of course the Civ VI screenshot likely depicts a Russian city (according to the presence of several lavras), and this might not mean anything, or this could mean that Russia's new city architecture is shared with someone else. I'm not too familiar with Russian architecture, but the palace building in the screenshot certainly doesn't remind me of anything "Russian".

The Canada ride never ends!

every european imperial style building are similar to each other you just found another example, it doesn't make sense since canada can't have the lavra as a unique district, and the reddish looking building style isn't canadian. this doesn't confirm canada in any way whatsoever.
in fact even chateau frontenac doesn't confirm it, we already have chitchen itza and the venetian arsenal in the game but no maya or venice to be seen. it's just a wonder.
i really hope firaxis sees that if they add canada now, out of the future 34 total civs post-expansion, 4 would be anglophone, which it's madness. canada would remove a free slot for staple civs like babylon, the maya, the inca, or the netherlands.
and besides the palace style it's probably a free artists redesign of the russian presidential building inside the kremlin, looking at the tall middle tower and especially the dome in front of the door.

 

[Vahnstad]

Nice observation! I may need to revise my list. Canada is looking more and more likely...

Especially with that Yukon National Wonder in the same screenshot (while the America screenshot clearly has American wonders and inspired improvements) and that gold/amber resource (mostly found in polar regions) and that snow wonder being built (it's not going to be built by Nubia or Egypt... i guess by the AI), because of tundra bias.

And Chateau Frontenac is no Chichen Itza in term of wonders. It's a "specific" wonder. It's a good choice, and I like the new addition, but it is a "specific" non-staple wonder. Wonders like Hagia Sophia, Chichen Itza, Petra and name it are staple wonders, classics.

And we know that this expansion will have a focus on the America's, since all the DLC currently did focus on every part of the world except the America's.

 

[Kheznik]

every european imperial style building are similar to each other you just found another example, it doesn't make sense since canada can't have the lavra as a unique district, and the reddish looking building style isn't canadian. this doesn't confirm canada in any way whatsoever.
in fact even chateau frontenac doesn't confirm it, we already have chitchen itza and the venetian arsenal in the game but no maya or venice to be seen. it's just a wonder.
i really hope firaxis sees that if they add canada now, out of the future 34 total civs post-expansion, 4 would be anglophone, which it's madness. canada would remove a free slot for staple civs like babylon, the maya, the inca, or the netherlands.
and besides the palace style it's probably a free artists redesign of the russian presidential building inside the kremlin, looking at the tall middle tower and especially the dome in front of the door.

Well I'm not saying that that's Canada portrayed in the screenshot. It's very clearly Russia, and the new architecture shown around the city's edges also has some very clear Russian influences-- but also Canadian ones. In fact it's almost obscenely Russian what with the tundra tiles, St. Basil's Cathedral, and several lavras in the shot, almost as if it's MEANT to distract you... What I'm saying is that a potential Canada would probably share its art style with Russia.

But I gotta be honest, that's quite a stretch to say the palace building in the screenshot looks anything like the picture you posted. You have to admit that the resemblance to the hôtel de ville I posted is very uncanny, and far more probable to be an artistic reference for the palace building than anything in Russia (or Europe for that matter). I would hope that if Russia had its own art style that they would use something more distinctly "Russian" for its palace, like the Winter Palace or the *real* Kremlin, and that the one shown in the screenshot is indeed Canadian, but a placeholder until they've finished modeling the Russian palace (unless it's placed there intentionally as a hint). But as is that palace definitely doesn't look Russian, unless Firaxis really seriously messed up in their references.

I also want to point out that a Canadian civ doesn't necessarily need to be anglophone. If anything, the probable "Quebec" architecture in the screenshot, paired with the Chateau Frontenac, points to a potential Canada having a French leader with his capital in Quebec City-- likely Samuel de Champlain, a fascinating 17th century explorer and governor, if I were to bet. Nothing like the other New World leaders we currently have.

 

[Vahnstad]

did Russia so far had the same architectural style as France, Germany, Spain, USA and so on?

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Champlain was a governor of a French colony that had not achieved independence... should the USA have a British colonial governor as leader?

 

[luigilime]

Especially with that Yukon National Wonder in the same screenshot (while the America screenshot clearly has American wonders and inspired improvements) and that gold/amber resource (mostly found in polar regions) and that snow wonder being built (it's not going to be built by Nubia or Egypt... i guess by the AI), because of tundra bias.

And Chateau Frontenac is no Chichen Itza in term of wonders. It's a "specific" wonder. It's a good choice, and I like the new addition, but it is a "specific" non-staple wonder. Wonders like Hagia Sophia, Chichen Itza, Petra and name it are staple wonders, classics.

And we know that this expansion will have a focus on the America's, since all the DLC currently did focus on every part of the world except the America's.

if you are right then i'm sorry but i'll definitely criticize firaxis' choice because it's giving priority to a very insignificant country that shouldn't even be considered a civilization at all, it's a very risky choice since a ton of people are complaining of eurocentrism, too many colonial civs, no native americans other than the aztecs.

 

[Vahnstad]

On the other hand, let's be honest. Most native American civs weren't significant as well and it could be argued if they were or weren't a "civilization" (i'm now talking about anything north than the Mexican desert).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Champlain was a governor of a French colony that had not achieved independence... should the USA have a British colonial governor as leader?

Gandhi for example.

In Civ, a leader need not be a ruler.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

That's just your opinion, man.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Not in reply to you Eagle... previous comment...