Basic Start help needed please: Kublai Khan/Warlord.

[lymond]

You need quite a few workers now unless you captured some.

Madrid looks like your new capital. Move the palace there soon. Good bureau potential reduced maintenance.

Get some spawnbusters on hills between Krak and Madrid.

I don't like the marble city. It looks like it will be a junk city anyway - scout a bit more up there and see if you can place it to maximize it as much as possible with less overlap on Madrid. Think about windmills later.

 

[iggymnrr]

I don't expect anyone to Shadow this as I am playing Warlord.

Like saying "sick 'em" to a dog. I'm tempted since I will play at just about any level. Barbs are a very small worry at this level.

Edit: Managed to find the BAT mod. Initial shadow:

Spoiler :

Settled 1W and opened AH. 10 turns later it's in with a worker due in 5. Fishing is available in 5 turns and mining in 6 turns. Worker techs won't be a problem. Scouted around the capitol and no AIs met yet. 2nd city may be horse/sheep/fish (creative) but this sacks the 2nd clams. Probably fishing->mining next.

 

[Benginal]

It's looking quite likely that you are isolated. You probably would have met all the remaining civs by now. It's unfortunate. The good news is that you have a lot of land it's pretty good for the most part.

At this point you're going to want to settle for resources to keep your cities happy and healthy. You'll probably want to get monarchy so that you can run the Hereditary Rule civic and get your cities nice and big.

You'll want to try and settle some more coastal cities since you'll need good cities to produce boats and whatnot. So maybe try and get one or two other coastal cities to help your capital build boats. That's not urgent, but something you'll want to do before too long.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Thanks all.

Yeah, I was thinking that Madrid would be better as the capital 4/5 floodplains + wet wheat, pig iron, some grass, copper and a few hills. Should I run Scientists here?

I think I'll use Karakaroum to pump out settlers and workers for a while. I have 3-4 warriors and 5 Axemen to fog bust and 1 explorer atm. As soon as the horses are hooked up I'll make a few chariots to explore and fog bust too.

My immediate plans are to settle the land between Madrid (to be renamed Xanadu ) set up some fog-busters and explorers and start impporiving the land asap.

I might make a workboat/galley to check the coast and see if I am isolated.

Tech Path. - Beeline Monarchy for HR, then sailing for galley.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Like saying "sick 'em" to a dog. I'm tempted since I will play at just about any level. Barbs are a very small worry at this level.

Edit: Managed to find the BAT mod. Initial shadow:

Spoiler :

Settled 1W and opened AH. 10 turns later it's in with a worker due in 5. Fishing is available in 5 turns and mining in 6 turns. Worker techs won't be a problem. Scouted around the capitol and no AIs met yet. 2nd city may be horse/sheep/fish (creative) but this sacks the 2nd clams. Probably fishing->mining next.

WHOOT!

I'm ahead of you atm. One quick favour - can you post the year/turn you get to so I know if I can look at the spoiler or not.

Thanks for the shadow

 

[Anomander Rake]

Update to T87 - 700BC

I've proceeded as planned, with one small change.

I met Huayna Capac on T74, so I am not isolated. In fact, he's pretty close. No idea why he took his time getting to me, but he scouted me with an archer and I then saw a border pop to the west as he set up his 2nd city there.

I've sent out my axemen and original warriors to fog bust. Got a couple more city sites planned, then the land gets a bit iffy to my inexperienced eyes. As I don't often get far down the tech path, I'm not sure what city sites will 'come on-line' in the future, and can't really plan for them. I've never used Workshops, Lumber-mills, Windmills, Watermills etc. By the time I get to that era my brain is fried and I usually end up making forest preserves......

I'm moving my palace atm - pumped out a couple of workers and built a granary in Xanadu (formerly Madrid) and built a few cottages, a mine, improved the copper and built a farm there. I think I can run a scientist here as soon as I get some spare units to raise the happy cap (currently only 5)

Spoiler :

Barcelona stayed at 1 pop for ages, but when I looked at it properly, I saw that it had set 1 citizen to make hammers and had stagnated!, soon fixed that.

Spoiler :

Beshbalik - wheat sheep horses - is now online and I am roading to Xanadu for the trade and speedy movement.

Spoiler :

Turfan - Plains tile NW of Gold has just been settled and a worker is on the gold and another on the floodplains.

Spoiler :

Karakorum has been pumping out workers and settlers and 1 Axeman for self-defence.

Spoiler :

This is what the land looks like now. I have a couple more city sites planned but would like some input of possible. If you need closer shots of an area, please let me know.

Spoiler :

I'm researching Writing atm to open Borders with H
Capac, then I'll go sailing to get that Galley to coastal explore.

After that I don't know. I normally Bee-line Feudalism for Longbows, but I have decent a decent Horse UU. This is the time in the game where I usually start to fall apart so please give me some idea of what I should be thinking about. Then I can do so, and let you know what I think; At which point you can all say either Well Done, or no! you forgot X, Y, Z and this is what would be better.....

Current Tech and Military Screen

Spoiler :

I have 7 workers and 5 towns with a settler on his way, so need approx 4 more workers I think, then I can start to make chariots to explore. Should I get HBR for my UU or choose another tech after sailing?

After the next settler, I think I'm going to build Archers for City Garrison defence before making more Settlers - what do you think? I don't really have another prod city apart from Karakorum yet.

 

[vranasm]

concentrate more on getting all the food with cities.
SW from madrid there is grasscow+fish spot unmarked (even if there is no clear picture on that spot I think I see it there)
to the north there is fish and even if mostly tundra that fish alone can feed 2 scientists.

and you have marked whale city which will be.... well I think useless is the right word ;-), 2S of it is on hill as good defense against HC and gets 3 FP's for food and the silk. Whale is not good resource

oh and between beshbalik and madrid is already improved grass cow, which you can place city on gh to north west for marble+grass cow + copper from future capital and farm on the lake and some marginal hills

and south west from turfan another coastal city with 2x FP, gold from turfan and some hills

 

[Anomander Rake]

Thanks vranasm.

I'll get another couple of settlers out then, but I really need some Archers I think for the Happy cap. I'll get a +1 as soon as the Gold comes online, butthat's it for the immediate future.

One thing I forgot - Should I spread Buddism and convert? Capac is Jewish, I could wait and see if he spreads it to me - might be better. What do you think. Obviously Xanadu (madrid) is the founding city for Buddism, and I'm not sure, but I think it can spread via the trade network, without monks.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Back again!

Sorry, lots of posts, but a lot happening this morning. Out later, so will slow down.

Need some advice here about future cities. I'm linking the full size screenshots so you can see better. I've taken Vranasm's advice and tweaked the NW, Placed a city SW (Ning) and planned out SE. The middle is slightly more problematic.
Not sure my site plan is the best.

Spoiler :

Actually, Looking at mid again, I don't need the city IE of the Iron as those grasslands and floodplains are covered by Turfan in the S and Bishbosh in the N.


next Question.

I built the Oracle in Xanadu for a couple of reasons, 1) to get a prohet to create the Hindu Holy site. I think that increases my Culture and Beakers. Is that right? and 2 for the free tech. If I had failed it would have been ££ in the bank, but it looks like I'll get it next turn.

What to pick? I think I can get Feudalism, but should I get CoL instead for the Courthouses? Here's the Tech Tree

Spoiler :

In Other news, I opened Borders with Capac on T91, Met Sitting Bull on T93 and OB T94, met Frederick on T101 (no OB yet). Both Buddism and Judaism have been spread from Capac, so I have 3 religions, nice for Free Religion later maybe. Should I switch to Capacs religion or wait to see what the others are?

I have 2 chariots and an explorer out making trade connections and exploring, and am starting to make Archers for basic city defence (1 per city should be OK until I get a Prod city with barracks for the Garrison Promotions.

I found 2x Iron too - which is great.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Ning Hsia - "Cows before cottages". You are improving floodplains (which is extra slow, because of the desert penalty) when you have a 4 turn 1F+2H improvement waiting to be built.

It also looks like you are working the iron mine to construct the granary? That might be right, but as a general rule, food/growth first. In this specific case, the answer might be to "borrow" the pigs from Xanadu while the other resources are being improved.

When you decide that this sort of problem is interesting, you get to sit down and do the math a few times, and eventually you get a feel for which play is the strong one (at which point, you stop worrying about the math, and just use the result).

 

[Anomander Rake]

I was working the iron for the Granary - you are correct.

The workers on the cottage have already roaded to the cows and were waiting for the border pop. It just happened, so rather than bring them off, there is another worker 1E who I will send there now

I'll remember what you said about food before hammers in a new city.

Do you think my City plans are OK, and do you have any recommendations for next Tech.

Thanks

 

[Benginal]

Well that's certainly an interesting update. I was sure you were going to be isolated, which is not interesting, but this is good news.

1) Feudalism is a good tech as it allows you to vassal people. You will not be building many longbows in this game as there's not much reason to do so. You shouldn't be seeing any advanced counter attacks from the AI and since you're on the offensive a few archers to stay and defend captured cities should be fine. So feudalism can come later.

2) Go on the offensive! You have a tremendous UU. You can win the game at this point just using a bunch of Keshiks.

3) To survive the onslaught of rising maintenance costs, since you should be capturing lots of cities you should research code of laws for courthouses and currency for the extra trade routes.

4) To go on the offensive I would suggest that you research Horseback Riding and Archery ASAP.

5) The oracle does increase culture, but it doesn't give you beakers, per se. What it does is give you a free tech. I'm not sure what's best to take. I'd vote for Code of Laws, definitely NOT feudalism.

6) You are playing at a very high level (I'd suggest moving to at least Prince). As such it's about time you learned the benefits of binary research. You have just unlocked the ability to build libraries. So turn your slider all the way down to 0% while you build libraries in your best commerce cities. Then turn the slider back up and your stockpiled gold will take you much farther since you now have a +25% beaker multiplier in all of your best cities.

7) The city sites you have planned out are alright. But I'm thinking that the capital's of HC, SB, and Freddy will be much better, . Take it to them.

In other words I'm voting that you get all the techs you need to secure your early game economy and then kind of shut down the economic/research part of your game and take over the world. I would finish research Alphabet and then trade for Archery. Take Code of Laws from the Oracle. Then research Horseback Riding. Build Gers (stable replacement) everywhere while researching Currency. Have your workers improve your cities on to all of their good tiles (mines, specials, cottages on green land, and the farms needed for those) and build enough garrison troops to support that happy cap. Then produce keshiks en masse and take over those three AIs.

 

[Anomander Rake]

WoW!

I am happy that this is going well, but Prince! I'll try Noble next and see ifthat goes as well. I've lost every Noble game I tried (or got frustrated and gave up), so I thought it best to go back to basics and I have learnt a lot in the past 72 hours!

I have archery - teched that in a hiatus and to get some archers into cities for the happy cap. As you suggest I'll take CoL and research HBR.

I assume there is a quicky way to find out my best commerce cities quickly? Let me go see if I can find it and post a SS. BRB

 

[vranasm]

played your save to 1AD... look at your own danger, but i don't really think you will be much spoiled if you do right now.
Sorry for no screens, but since i am lately playing in windowed mode, the SS's are taken there badly

 

[Anomander Rake]

I'm @ 425 AD and in a right pickle with happiness (

No idea what to do, can't keep whipping and people say avoid growth is bad. Did a deal for Wine with Capac and spammed lots of archers.

I think I need to tech to something so I can build happiness buildings. Switched to Judasim so no and and spreading that and building Temples, also going to spread Buddhism and build those temples too...

Edit

How the hell do you keep your pop so low ?

Mine keeps exploding, and I switch tiles every few turns.
Should I shrink some cities ?
I can't seem to find a combination that stagnates any city except 1 I think.

 

[michmbk]

Monarchy? Hereditary rule means unlimited happiness, and is something I prioritize when I don't have happiness resources readily available.

 

[vranasm]

@anomander
whipping...boosts production and as michmbk mentioned you should somewhat prioritize Monarchy (dunno when i got into HR, but wasn't super quick too)

 

[Ghpstage]

I'm @ 425 AD and in a right pickle with happiness (

No idea what to do, can't keep whipping and people say avoid growth is bad. Did a deal for Wine with Capac and spammed lots of archers.

I think I need to tech to something so I can build happiness buildings. Switched to Judasim so no and and spreading that and building Temples, also going to spread Buddhism and build those temples too...

Edit

How the hell do you keep your pop so low ?

Mine keeps exploding, and I switch tiles every few turns.
Should I shrink some cities ?
I can't seem to find a combination that stagnates any city except 1 I think.

Whipping off multiple population helps keep under control, or you could use Caste to run more specialists, but by 450AD your population isn't particularly high by any means. The biggest thing contributing to your happines troubles is only having 2 resources, which is a shame considering you have easy access to 4 more!

That fur could be settled pretty much right away, the site is poor but the will make up for it. I would settle on top of one of the coastal ones for instant access, rather than beside them.
You also have 2 different calender resources, and theres 2 silvers and an extra whale north of Incan lands.
Some of the resources are particularly useful The silver along with the gold you already have will each give another by building a forge, and similarly the fur and silk (and later whales) each give an extra with a Market.
Of course you can still build extra units or temples for .

 

[DMOC]

I'm @ 425 AD and in a right pickle with happiness (

No idea what to do, can't keep whipping and people say avoid growth is bad. Did a deal for Wine with Capac and spammed lots of archers.

I think I need to tech to something so I can build happiness buildings. Switched to Judasim so no and and spreading that and building Temples, also going to spread Buddhism and build those temples too...

Edit

How the hell do you keep your pop so low ?

Mine keeps exploding, and I switch tiles every few turns.
Should I shrink some cities ?
I can't seem to find a combination that stagnates any city except 1 I think.

Ironic, every time I play I'm always looking for a way to keep my population high. Population is power in this game. I try to aim for size 15 capitals in the 1-200 AD range.

Hereditary Rule would help, as well as working specialists, and resource trades ... and settling those cities with happiness resources.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

@ michmbk - I'm in HR, and have built loads of archers - one city has 5/6 of them and at one point 23 turns of cruel oppression to work through.....

@ all: I think my whipping sucks. I see people do 2-3 pop whips and I only seem to be able to whip 1 pop, which then grows back to full unhappiness in 2 turns with added cruel oppression!

I tried worker spam too, but now I think I have too many and don't know what to do with them all. I have cottages everywhere, as I don't have tech to build workshops yet. I suppose I could just sent a few to sleep...

@ Ghpstage : Thanks, I get another settler up N for the fur and extra iron and tech towards Calendar.

I was working towards Keshiks to wipe a few people out, but come to think of it, can I use the horses in cities for happiness or not?

Edit
@ DMOC, I am trading with capac for wine, Clams + corn I think.