[BTS] Beakers overflow for the next research or money?

[catalin72]

In a comment from the net somebody says that if keep slider down just to obtain a tech, not at maximum possible for overflow,the result may be 10-20 turns behind in research,gold surplus decreasing research no matter.
I play vs AI always with random events and I prefer biggest maps than standard,most games posted here,without huts and events.
1.For standard maps without huts and events,this is true,overflow is more important than gold,thinking 'negative',will make a bad techs trade with AI?
2.For maps with events,are bad events when can save a forge or other building with gold,good events with a very good result if have enough gold(spices with road and plantation or quests,examples),overflow or extra gold?
Thanks in advance for advices.

 

[sampsa]

In a comment from the net somebody says that if keep slider down just to obtain a tech, not at maximum possible for overflow,the result may be 10-20 turns behind in research,gold surplus decreasing research no matter.

If I understand your sentence correctly, no that is not true. The difference between finishing a tech at 0% or at 100% is small, because all that happens is you get overflow for the next tech you choose. Having the slider somewhere in the middle (10-90%) is often bad, because of rounding. Still, the loss is usually 1. Definitely not 10-20 turns in any reasonable time frame.

1.For standard maps without huts and events,this is true,overflow is more important than gold,thinking 'negative',will make a bad techs trade with AI?

I do not understand what you mean. You are always transforming into with the slider. It doesn't matter if you have overflow or not, it's just already transformed into .

2.For maps with events,are bad events when can save a forge or other building with gold,good events with a very good result if have enough gold(spices with road and plantation or quests,examples),overflow or extra gold?

Yes. Overflow means that you are filling something so full that it spills over. This is what happens for both and in this game. I get the feeling you are using it to mean something else.

 

[Snowbird]

If game is with events keeping some extra gold is nice, but so is having techs earlier. Overall, it does not matter if you accumulate gold midteching or doing some manipulation at the end of the tech (well, I guess doing at the end will give current tech faster, but in terms of having this tech and the next - there is no difference).

 

[catalin72]

@sampsa
I do not understand what you mean. You are always transforming into with the slider. It doesn't matter if you have overflow or not, it's just already transformed into .

Is clearly for all Civ IV players,science comes from gold,not from population like in Civ V.
One example:I can obtain a tech next turn with just 10% science,+30 gold.Gold is science,but too those 30 gold extra in the end of the turn can help me for the next tech to keep slider 100% science,I can keep negative rate because 30 gold will 'protect' my treasury.
My question for standard without events and huts was this,is good to get 30 gold,or to let overflow with maximum possible science rate,thinking for the whole game?

 

[elitetroops]

One example:I can obtain a tech next turn with just 10% science,+30 gold.Gold is science,but too those 30 gold extra in the end of the turn can help me for the next tech to keep slider 100% science,I can keep negative rate because 30 gold will 'protect' my treasury.

Still better to finish tech with slider at 100%. The overflow beakers go directly into the next tech. Then, if needed, set slider to 0% to bank gold for the next tech.

Every turn you have slider at anything but 100% or 0% you lose at least one beaker/gold.

 

[babybluepants]

@catalin72
If I understand what you are saying, the only reason not to overflow would be if you don't know what you are teching next, or are waiting on a tech trade for a prerequisite, or something similar. Otherwise, what elitetroops said.
Edit: and I don't see what huts and events have to do with it.

 

[Snowbird]

Every turn you have slider at anything but 100% or 0% you lose at least one beaker/gold.

Not always true --- https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-fast-to-expand.484940/page-4#post-12150053. It is super edge case -- (all rounding going against binary), but you know you can loose stuff doing it. In theory...

 

[sampsa]

My question for standard without events and huts was this,is good to get 30 gold,or to let overflow with maximum possible science rate,thinking for the whole game?

OK. This question was already incidentally answered by the part of my answer that you quoted. "It doesn't matter if you have overflow or not, it's just already transformed into ."

All in all, stop worrying about this. It doesn't matter much. There are many many more important things to worry about (expanding, empire build-up, diplomacy, trading, warring...)

and I don't see what huts and events have to do with it.

It's good to have some saved to counter the bad events.

 

[catalin72]

OK. This question was already incidentally answered by the part of my answer that you quoted. "It doesn't matter if you have overflow or not, it's just already transformed into ."

All in all, stop worrying about this. It doesn't matter much. There are many many more important things to worry about (expanding, empire build-up, diplomacy, trading, warring...)


It's good to have some saved to counter the bad events.

OK,thank you.I prefered to keep some gold not max science for 2 reasons,1:maybe I'm forced to research next tech a very cheap tech(Archery,etc),2:Gold =maintenance of units,I had situations in the past like many players,0% science,but strike),complicated war,can't always to decide when start a war.

 

[sampsa]

maybe I'm forced to research next tech a very cheap tech(Archery,etc)

Note that this doesn't matter at all. You simply have your overflow beakers put into that then. You don't win or lose anything.

 

[sampsa]

Btw are you getting your idea from this article? https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/beaker-overflow.624745/

In the example given at the end of it the difference comes mostly from saving money before building a library, then going 100% slider (yes, you should be doing this!). So the point is only that if you are building a library, you should minimize overflow and you should minimize slider, just because is transformed into a bigger amount of after you have a library. So when finishing writing, it makes sense to minimize the overflow i.e. go with the minimum slider that finishes the tech.

 

[catalin72]

I know that I don't loose beakers,a problem can appear in my opinion if cottages are exactly before 1 turn or 2 to grow,and I used overflow for a cheap tech researched just in one turn.Maybe I'm wrong.
Sincerely I expected starting this post a link of an old thread very detailed,calculations, with advantages of overflow or gold extra.Unfortunately,many users here play without events,no more are experts in maps with events too in maps without events,knowing list of events and having a complete idea about advantages of gold extra.To have science maximum possible and overflow is better advice,thank you.Solution is to play me in the future many games standard maps without huts and events(events are 'the salt and pepper' of this game INMHO,Vox Populi Mod of Civ V reintroduced these),to see the balance overflow/gold.

@Sampsa,sorry Sampsa,now I see your link with that thread,thank you.

 

[sampsa]

I know that I don't loose beakers,a problem can appear in my opinion if cottages are exactly before 1 turn or 2 to grow,and I used overflow for a cheap tech researched just in one turn.Maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, you are wrong. It doesn't matter when cottages grow. It doesn't matter if you used overflow for a cheap tech. I am not sure what you are misunderstanding, since you understand that does not disappear.

Sincerely I expected starting this post a link of an old thread very detailed,calculations, with advantages of overflow or gold extra.Unfortunately,many users here play without events,no more are experts in maps with events too in maps without events,knowing list of events and having a complete idea about advantages of gold extra.To have science maximum possible and overflow is better advice,thank you.Solution is to play me in the future many games standard maps without huts and events(events are 'the salt and pepper' of this game INMHO,Vox Populi Mod of Civ V reintroduced these),to see the balance overflow/gold.

You didn't get replies linking old threads of very detailed calculations of -overflow because... it's just transformed into , nothing else. It doesn't matter much if events are on. If they are, it makes sense to always have 20 in the bank, that's all there is. You think this is all very complicated, when it's not.

 

[catalin72]

Yes,this is my style,to make things complicated when are not,in Romania:'You don't see the forest because of trees').Thank you much,your link has resolved my dilemma.

 

[6K Man]

Most here advocate a binary approach: Slider at 100% or 100% . When you have run out of cash, run 100% for a few turns, build a stockpile of cash, and burn through it for several turns at 100% ; Repeat.


My problem with this approach is that having a large amount of cash on hand can lead to AIs begging/demanding most or all of it, and turning them down leads to diplomatic problems. So at the expense of a stray beaker here or there, I’d suggest running the science slider at the threshold that allows you to break even on , running a negative when you can get a tech a turn faster.


The other consideration is that it can pay to run 100% for a few turns before you build the Library and/or Academy in your capital in the early game, so you can run 100% for longer after the Library/Academy is built and get 25%/50% more beakers from your capital than you otherwise would.

 

[catalin72]

OK,thank you.

 

[intutama]

As everyone pointed out (and also in my post linked above, which I tried to make clearer: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/beaker-overflow.624745/), the beaker overflow can't be gamed so it makes absolutely no difference if you end up with big or small overflow. However it might be a good idea to limit overflow if you're going to complete science buildings soon, as you will tech better then (so you'll get more beakers for your money).