Beaten to religion in Emperor

Woohoo I did it. On Emperor with all 43 Civs. On turn 84 with Morocco.

Minh Le was right. Stonehenge with Goddess of Beauty.

Religion.png
 
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Lol sorry about that, corrected now.

I did it just now with God of Expanse too. Without Stonehenge. Same speed, about turn 85. However I prefer Goddess of Beauty as being stronger Panteon in the long run than God of Expanse.

Religion GoE.png
 
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God of expanse + a luxury that gives culture like Jade.

Have you tried Goddess of Fertility? It works quite well when you don't settle in rivers, this is, when you build wells fast. It's a bad strategy culture-wise in the long run due to the lack of Baths, unless you get access to fresh water by other means, like those oasis. It's also not recommended with Tradition, since it gives too much growth.
 
I tried to found religion on deity but got beaten to 2 turns. However my neighbour Amsterdam found one so I will try to conquer his holy capital. I am already preparing for war with him.

Goddess of Fertility is very nice and I noticed it but someone always snatches it before me.

About the baths, I think they only require fresh water, not necessarily river. I have marshes next to my city and farms can be made next to them. I have to confirm later if baths only need fresh water.
 
CrazyG said:
No

Being next to a lake or oasis grants fresh water (without being river)
Click to expand...
Thanks. See ? I uncovered a bug by deductive logic. I reported it in GitHub.

EDIT: Enginseer closed my bug report as being intentional. Wait a minute. Highly disputable, I mean I understand if it was intentional in the first place but I am challenging the intention.

Look, a well is a source of fresh water. Every city has one or another source of fresh water otherwise it wouldn't exist. This is water we are talking about, not uranium. Plus we are talking about a bath and few pools, you don't need debit of more than 5 liters per second to fill them in 24 hours. This is a small bath, this is not Libya's Great Man-Made River project where you need colossal underground fresh water reserves.

How come public baths are restricted to fresh water either way ? Cities like Athens and Istanbul, which are known to have severe fresh water shortages, have one of the most famous baths in the world, like the Ali Pasha Hammam in Istanbul.

It is correct that baths are producing culture in the game, as modern baths are not so much a place of hygiene, but they are modern Spa center which attracts tourism.

And if you deem baths impossible "as intended", then please explain how aqueducts are possible in the lack of fresh water in the cities ?

We need to make a poll on this to be decided. Maybe tu79 can open a poll as I don't know how to open polls.
 
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Leondegrance said:
Thanks. See ? I uncovered a bug by deductive logic. I reported it in GitHub.

EDIT: Enginseer closed my bug report as being intentional. Wait a minute. Highly disputable, I mean I understand if it was intentional in the first place but I am challenging the intention.

Look, a well is a source of fresh water. Every city has one or another source of fresh water otherwise it wouldn't exist. This is water we are talking about, not uranium. Plus we are talking about a bath and few pools, you don't need debit of more than 5 liters per second to fill them in 24 hours. This is a small bath, this is not Libya's Great Man-Made River project where you need colossal underground fresh water reserves.

How come public baths are restricted to fresh water either way ? Cities like Athens and Istanbul, which are known to have severe fresh water shortages, have one of the most famous baths in the world, like the Ali Pasha Hammam in Istanbul.

It is correct that baths are producing culture in the game, as modern baths are not so much a place of hygiene, but they are modern Spa center which attracts tourism.

And if you deem baths impossible "as intended", then please explain how aqueducts are possible in the lack of fresh water in the cities ?

We need to make a poll on this to be decided. Maybe tu79 can open a poll as I don't know how to open polls.
Click to expand...
It's intended.

We had a long long discussion on the topic. We have three categories for founding cities, regarding water. There are river cities. These ones benefit from water mills, which are improved versions of the well though they come later. There are cities with access to fresh water (rivers, lakes, marshes and oasis) which can build baths, a culture enhancing building. And there are coastal cities, which can build naval buildings and be attacked by ships.
As it is now, we have to decide if we want to settle in rivers with extra gold, better long term yields and more available buildings late game, settle non river cities with fresh water with better short term yields, settle without fresh water, accepting fewer culture for whatever goodies could be around, or settle coastal with better connectivity, naval involvement and riskier defense. It is accepted that non river cities have a stronger start, allowing for easier expansion, thus the lower yields.

If wells were to allow baths, then we would lose the strategic decision of where to settle.
 
Strategic settlement is about lux and strategic resources, maybe defense, maybe proximity, and so on there is a whole lot strategy already about settlement location. It should not be determined by common assets like water. Plus building a well is strategic enough.

I have seen a lot of maps where there is no rivers anything. But any hydrogeologist will tell you there is enough underground fresh water everywhere. Is just decision of investment to pump it to the surface.

This should be decided by a new poll. After all the charm of CIV5 is how close it imitates history. Contrived mechanical introductions is not Civ's strong side.
 
Leondegrance said:
Thanks. See ? I uncovered a bug by deductive logic. I reported it in GitHub.

EDIT: Enginseer closed my bug report as being intentional. Wait a minute. Highly disputable, I mean I understand if it was intentional in the first place but I am challenging the intention.

Look, a well is a source of fresh water. Every city has one or another source of fresh water otherwise it wouldn't exist. This is water we are talking about, not uranium. Plus we are talking about a bath and few pools, you don't need debit of more than 5 liters per second to fill them in 24 hours. This is a small bath, this is not Libya's Great Man-Made River project where you need colossal underground fresh water reserves.

How come public baths are restricted to fresh water either way ? Cities like Athens and Istanbul, which are known to have severe fresh water shortages, have one of the most famous baths in the world, like the Ali Pasha Hammam in Istanbul.

It is correct that baths are producing culture in the game, as modern baths are not so much a place of hygiene, but they are modern Spa center which attracts tourism.

And if you deem baths impossible "as intended", then please explain how aqueducts are possible in the lack of fresh water in the cities ?

We need to make a poll on this to be decided. Maybe tu79 can open a poll as I don't know how to open polls.
Click to expand...

Not a bug. Fresh water is defined on the map layer, not by buildings.

Also, 'make a poll on this to be decided' - polls only matter if the topic under discussion compares like objects or choices. This is not one of those times.

G
 
Gazebo said:
Not a bug. Fresh water is defined on the map layer, not by buildings.

Also, 'make a poll on this to be decided' - polls only matter if the topic under discussion compares like objects or choices. This is not one of those times.

G
Click to expand...
Then explain the aqueducts. Please dont tell me aqueducts collect rain water from the street curbs but baths are special impossible case.
 
Leondegrance said:
Then explain the aqueducts. Please dont tell me aqueducts collect rain water from the street curbs but baths are special impossible case.
Click to expand...

Fresh water is defined on the map layer, not by buildings.

This isn't a 'design choice,' it's hard-coded into how the DLL reads a city's fresh water status.

G
 
Gazebo said:
Fresh water is defined on the map layer, not by buildings.

This isn't a 'design choice,' it's hard-coded into how the DLL reads a city's fresh water status.

G
Click to expand...
I dont buy it. Map may be difficult to mess around with, but buildings are easy. It is a matter of flag.

Can you tell me in which folder is the flag ? I want to change it.
 
Leondegrance said:
Okay thanks. Great input.

I will be taking farewell in February anyway when Gathering Storm launches. So bear with me just a few more.
Click to expand...

You are literally asking for a way to change the DLL through a...folder? What you are asking for isn’t a simple notepad change, bud. I’m sorry that your ignorance of coding is frustrating, but I can’t help with the impossible.

G
 
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