bed_01 - Commercialistic English

Ok we are going to war with Carthage, I wasnt sure about that.
Yes I think we can catch up, but it would have been easier to no get left behind in the first place, as we can then trade for parity.
So if I understand correctly, we are supposed to trade passed Mass Production?
So near that deadline, we should get ready to switch to a full CAsh infrastructure.
Like just before that (which is still some time away) sell universities and library and have banks and stocks everywhere, that will be our only chance.
Also we should build factories when possible, to get ready for the space race.
 
Alright. Won't be able to play until later, though. I don't really see any reason to be worried about anything, as early Industrial Age is generally one of the slowest periods in the game techwise.
 
650 AD (0) - Change some university builds, since we will be selling them off eventually. We should hopefully be able to catch up through trading more than anything else. We are getting 4gpt from Carthage, so declaring war won't hurt our rep. Unless I am completely wrong.

660 AD (1) - Nothing. We may have enough knights to go to war right now.

720 AD (7) - Portuguese and Sumeria are now allied against Iroquios, and they don't know anything beyond some of first tier. I am going to gift all the scientific civs into IA to make things easier for us. We also have a number of trebs and knights in production. This time around, Carthage won't survive the encounter. First time, stupid Ottomans get stupid Nationalism. Korea gets Steam Power. Unfortunately, no one got Medicine, which is still unknown. Going to hold off on trades for now, since tech pace has slowed by so much. Instead, we'll do a final GA propelled max run at Medicine, due in 6. That plus Economics plus some gold will be enough to get Nationalism from the Ottomans, then get Steam from Korea, then the dead end MA techs from the leaders, if we so desire. It is too bad the Byzantines got knocked out, though, as they may have gotten Medicine and allowed us to trade around and skip straight to Electricity.

730 AD (8) - Declare on Carthage, but don't move all our units in yet.

740 AD (9) - Capture Leptis Magna, kill 10ish Carthaginian units without loss.

750 AD (10) - Preparing for attack on Carthage. After next turn, it should fall relatively easily.

Final notes - Not much. Get Medicine, trade it, get Electricity, trade it, get Scientific Method, hold onto it for awhile and go after Corporation and Stock Markets. We may want to delay getting Mass Production until we have got every city with stock markets.

On the war front, there probably shouldn't be too many problems. We have lots of units, at least, and are producing a lot more with our GA. Send some south though to completely finish them off and get us some saltpeter.
 
How important is saltpeter at this point?
Its better than nothing but we could just wait for rubber no?
 
It is not at all important, to be perfectly honest. But Carthage still has two cities on an island with both saltpeter and iron, and there is no reason to allow them to stick around on that island. No flip risks if they are out of the game.
 
Forgot to mention, SJ Frank is up, but he has no internet access on weekends. Hajime seems to still be having problems with his computer.

LulThyme's question has made me think some more. Once we get saltpeter, do we even have reason to build Men-O-War? Portugal is a tech leader, and we will be relying upon them in the Modern Age to research for us. Beyond them, I don't see any naval power around that would be worth attacking.
 
My thoughts exactly, TimBentley. However, before the game I thought declaring simply to use our UU would be a an option. Realistically, it is not in our game.
 
Turn 0 750 AD

I get the game back in the middle of a golden age. Nice!

We're down a couple of industrial age techs to the leading AI's, but we're researching Medicine. Hopefully that monopoly tech will allow us to get to tech parity.

Speaking of the leading AI's, Summeria has over 10K in the bank :eek: .

Our core cities are nicely managed. 3 of them are at 24spt, for a very efficient 3-turn knights. I swap one of London's tiles to get an extra gold, and I also swap some of the southern cities to granaries.

Oh, hold on. I can swap a few tiles between London, York and Warwick, and get Warwick to 24spt as well. London needs another forrest to stay at 30spt for 1-turn trebs. There are enough workers around, so it is done in 1 turn.

IBT: Renew the gem/wine deal with Portugal, with us having to chip in 2 more gpt. A good sign, me thinks.

Summeria use some of their money to sign Ottoman agaist Iroquois.
Carthage Knight attack us at the fortress. We win, of course.
A Carthage galley sail down our east coast, another Carthage galley ends its turn next to our galleon.

Turn 1 760 AD

Brighton: marketplace->temple

We have 8 knights at the door steps of Carthage. I'll wait for one more turn, for more trebs and knights to arrive.

I send 2 knights southward to deal with the potential galley landing.

Changing the previous plans, London goes to 35spt for 2-turn knights, while Warwick goes back to 17spt and treb production.

IBT: America joins the dogpile against Iroquois.

Turn 2 770 AD

Norwich: Granary->Bank

Trebs go 4-for-5 at Carthage.
- Elite knight retreats.
- Vet knight retreats.
- Vet knight retreats.
- Vet knight wins.
- Vet knight loses.
- Vet knight wins.
- Vet knight wins.
- Vet knight loses.
- Vet knight beats a long bow.
- Vet knight kills the last redlined merc, and the city is razed.

Our troops need healing.

One more turn until Medicine, can't lower the science at all.

IBT: Dutch and Egypt sign peace.

Turn 3 780 AD

Dover: Bank->Granary
Oxford: Granary->temple
Liverpool: Granary->trebuchet
York starts palace pre-build.

The trade that bed_head outlined is still available:
- Medicine + Economics + WM + 362 gold to Ottoman for Nationalism
- Nationalism to Korea for Steam + WM + 37gpt + 56 gold.

We have 3 coals! Summeria and Korea do not have coal.

- Medicine to Summeria for 3057 gold, coal is worth only 130 gold to them. The cheapos get no coal :p
- Medicine to Iroquois for Saltpeter + Spice + 83gpt + 40 gold.
- Medicine to Portugal for 96gpt + 10 gold.
- RoP + WM to Ottoman for 130 gold.

I just realized, for all the warmongering that's going on, no one has yet researched military tradition! The AI's on the other continent are slogging it out with Knights against Rifles :lol:

Research is set to Electricity at 100%, +129gpt, due in 8 turns.

IBT: Korea and Ottoman sign MPP.
Iroquois and Eygpt sign peace.
Carthage lands a pair of units next to Warwick

Turn 4 790 AD

A pair of knight could just reach the Carthage units. So they were taken care of.

Build Reading on the old Carthage site. Let's hope that it doesn't flip this turn.

Advance 11 knights and 8 trebuchets next to Leptis Minor.

Coventry finishs Courthouse, start MoW, which costs an amazing 36 shields. Swap the treb in Liverpool to MoW as well.

The Dye for Incense deal is not renewed with Iroquois, since we got their spice last turn.

Renew Dutch Iron deal with Economic and Chemistry.

Upgrade some Trebs to Cannons.

IBT: I still missed one, renew Fur deal with America for Astronomy.
Our knight defends successfully against Carthagenian knight.

Turn 5 800 AD

WW is up to 20%, and the GA will end next turn :(

Trebs go 5-for-8, every defender in Leptis Minor is hurt.
- vet knight loses
- vet knight wins
- vet knight wins
- vet knight wins
- vet knight wins, the top defender is a reg LB
- vet knight wins, and we capture the city.

I need an extra lux:
- Gem + Dye + RoP + 13gpt + 17gold + WM to Iroquois for Incense. The top dog Summeria also has a lux, but we don't want to help them any further.

Turn 6 810 AD

Dover: granary->temple

MM cities, now that the GA is over.

Send another 11 knights and 8 trebs after the remaining 2 Carthage cities.

Turn 7 820 AD

Canterbury: Bank->Courthouse

I decide to attack Utica without treb support, this way I can finish off the Carthage on the mainland by next turn.
- vet knight retreats
- vet knight wins
- vet knight loses
- vet knight wins
- vet knight wins and promotes, only a LB is left
- vet knigth takes the city

10 healthy knights and 8 trebuchets are now next to the last Carthage city on the mainland.

Start some galleon builds.

Turn 8 830 AD

London: knight->rifle, we have 25 knights, that's probably enough. A mixed force is good. Our only defensive unit is a vet spear in London.

trebs go only 2-for-8 at Theveste.
- vet knight loses
- vet knight loses
- vet knight retreats
- vet knight wins.
- vet knight wins
- vet knight wins
- Elite knight attacks, and promotes! [dance]

We take the city.

What do we want to do this this leader? An army probably, to win a battle so we could build the Epic and the Academy, but since there is no enemy to attack yet, I do not use the leader.

Fortify some units into cities.

Load 4 knights into a galleon and set sail.

Turn 9 840 AD

MoW bombard enemy galley.

Workers focus on the RR around York, the pre-build city.

Fortify the leader in London.

Our galleon don't have enough movement to land this turn, so it docks at one of our island cities in the area.

IBT: Dutch and Summeria sign MPP

Turn 10 850 AD

MoW bombards another Carthagenian galley. We could bombard them and run circles around them, then sink them when they are redlined.

Finish off the RR work around York.

Shift around units in former Carthagenian cities.

Most cities are off military builds. I left them on temples, for lack of better choices. Universities as factory or hospital pre-builds may be a good idea, that for the next leader to decide.

We're 2 turns from Electricity, lower science to 80%.

I've left the island invasion force active, so the next leader can pick a landing spot. The military leader is also active in London.

Our pre-build is due in 16 turns (our palace is only 400 shields though). We could afford to research a cheaper tech like sanitation before scientific method. Or, if we build science building right now, we could research a more expensive tech, like Replaceable Parts or Industrialization.

There are space here for 2 nice little fishing villages. Please consider rushing settlers out of the Carthage cities for them.

 
I think Hajime is still having computer problems, but I'll wait a little while anyways. I can't think of anything else to do with the leader than build an army (it's nice that galleons have been built so a full army is transportable).
 
Very nicely done in all areas. I especially liked your MM improvements on what I had, though admittedly I didn't spend any time looking at it once I had those three at 24spt. And you cleaned up Carthage very efficiently.

For the leader, and army would seem the only way to go. We have a Forbidden Palace already, and no other small wonder is really worth it if we don't already have an army. Although it just ocurred to me that if we can get Espionage soon, it might be worth it to rush the Intelligence Agency. Probably not though, as it should only take 6 turns in a productive, railroaded city with factories. Actually not at all worth it. But the Intelligence Agency will be very valuable to us with our variant, if we should ever find ourselves falling behind.

Thanks for giving me more credit than I deserved on the trading. Although I would like to think my trades would have turned out as well as yours.

As for research, we should still be able to make due without any more science building. They will all be sold off shortly, no reason to build them now. We are traders, after all. So go ahead and get Sanitation, as it is generally ignored anyway. We will be able to get the other techs with Scientific Method, or maybe Atomic Theory if the tech rate picks up a bit.

Hajime is up, and I have seen him around in the forum, maybe a PM is in order. Or maybe not. TB, you can take it if you like. If he is still having problems, as switch isn't a big deal anyway.

Now that we have reached this point, I think it might be necessary to start considering bed_02. This wasn't really difficult at any point, thanks in part to Hajime's little gambit that worked out extremely well for us, as well as the nice starting map and the excellent play. So maybe Diety next time, or a harder map on Demigod. And another neglected civ, with the idea to emphasize their traits. I had been considering the Byzantines, but that might turn out to be too similar to COTM3 for me. Plus, I can't think of a similar tweak for that.
 
One thing I would like to see is a hard map.
Hard as in hard for everyone including the AIs.
Ugly terrain and such.
That would certainly slow the tech pace down and everything else basically and that is my main gripe at high diff play, is the game just flies by.
The only trouble would be making it balanced, as in an ugly map, a good location for an AI or us is even more of an advantage.
 
850(0)-do a little MMing
switch some temples to university prebuilds, Warwick, Dover to rifle
Drop off knights by Cadiz

IBT-Portuguese privateer kills Carthage galley
Utica settler->temple
Nottingham knight->cathedral
Hippo aqueduct->market

860(1)-One knight dies at Cadiz, two retreat; I decide to wait for reinforcements and put knights back on galleon
switch Warwick to knight

IBT-Iroquois, Portugal sign peace
learn electricity
London rifle->rifle
make two :smoke: moves
Leptis Magna riots (I thought MapStat was talking about Leptis Minor)
Dover rifle->colosseum; I then realize Dover has no barracks

870(2)-Bombard and then kill galley, enslaving it
start research on sanitation
Theveste will finish a settler in a few turns without rushing, so switch Leptis Minor to temple

IBT-Carthage drops off longbowman by my knight force
Brighton granary->bank

880(3)-knight promotes killing that longbowman
found Birmingham in wester suggested spot, start on temple
fill army and prepare for disembarkment

IBT-Warwick knight->colosseum
Oxford galleon->cathedral
Sumeria starts Universal Suffrage

890(4)-zzz

IBT-Egypt, Ottomans sign peace
Ottomans, Portugal sign MA against Vikings
Theveste settler->temple
Nottingham knight->cathedral

900(5)-drop off troops on Carthage island (some knights couldn't since they just boarded)

IBT-zzz

910(6)-army kills two NuMercs in Cadiz, elite knight kills one

IBT-Sumeria, Iroquois sign peace
longbowman dies attacking elite knight
London rifle->Heroic Epic
Canterbury court->university

920(7)-it takes two 4/5 knights to kill a longbowman to capture Cadiz
army and knight each kill redlined NuMerc to capture Cirta, 2 workers
war weariness ends
Just remember that irrigation without fresh water is possible
found Richmond on easter suggested spot, start on harbor

IBT-Iroquois, Ottomans sign peace
learn sanitation, start on scientific method
Leeds temple->court
Sumeria declared war on Iroquois

930(8)-switch prebuilds to hospitals

IBT-Liverpool hospital->Heroic Epic

940(9)-Portugal probably learned fascism and sold it to Sumeria for communism and industrialization
a lux deal could be renegogiated, and another will end next turn, so I'll leave it to the next player for trading

IBT-silks deal expires
Hastings hospital->university (factory prebuild)
Portugal starts Universal Suffrage

950(10)-Cities are started to get cramped

Notes: Portugal sold away their silks, but we have enough luxuries
Renegogiating the lux deal with Portugal could be combined with getting industrialization
We should probably disband some obsolete units
Brighton needs a garrison of 8 to avoid flip chance
London could build Hoover Dam (would need to borrow Heroic Epic from Liverpool for prebuild)
Someone who is more knowledgeable about fishing villages could discuss build order of our new cities

Here is the save.
 
Going to bed, so won't comment yet. It all sounds good, at least. LulThyme, if you want to play it now, go ahead and take it.
 
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