Been Playing Civ too Long

[RedRalph]

There is a huge difference b/t patriotism and imperialism. The Iraq war is a war of imperialism. At the cost of many many Iraqi babies' lives, the Bush family and their friends have seen their bank accounts soar. In what way is the US safer today than before the spring of '03? In what way are the Iraqis better off? We have been lied to, and anyone who cared to be honest about it all knew we were being lied to before it began. The yes-men of the neo-conservatives (Limbaugh, Hannity and their followers etc) like to bring up this crap about honoring the soldiers, that we should support them while they are in harms way. That's just another fear tactic the people in power like to use as a smokescreen to advance their imperialist agendas. The question of 'supporting our troops' needs to be asked of them, why is it okay for them to send the brothers and sisters of the working class to kill Iraqis and to be put into harms way? How can that be considered patriotic in a war that is clearly not for defense? The imperialist argument is that the US needs to secure the free-flow of oil to the "advanced" (in what way?), industrialized, and "free" nations of the world. BS. The oil producing nations of the world need to sell their oil every bit as much as we need to buy it, the real question is who controls the profits of that oil, and the Bush family etc says that they have the biggest claim to that oil, control of the US military in effect means they (the Bush family etc) are the biggest mafia in the world. Rush Limbaugh et all go along with this non-sense in a blind act of 'patriotism.' Blood lust and greed, that's what this war is about, and the Bush family etc has shown that we (americans) are not the society we like to think we are. Of the people for the people by the people. You think so?

And about nothing to hide, nothing to worry about, that's plain non-sense. The point gets made before this question is even asked. It is a matter of principle that supposedly our government was founded upon, and is a principle that is meant to protect the citizens from the government and a government's inclination to abuse its power.

amen to that brother

 

[Angst]

"Civ is part of the real world so somehow many people connect the two things. The problem is, the real world is not a part of Civ."

 

[Photi]

I don't believe that humans have concepts of justice in them. It is brought upon them through society, and face it, societies view of justice is often broken. Justice in this world is getting the other guy before he gets me. It's sad but true

and what is society if not collective humanity? part of this is the question of tactics. a hard-core imperialist will go about achieving his ends through force of arms. myriad examples throughout human history will argue in favor that there is no other way than constant warfare to achieve ever-higher levels of relative power. but the reality is that civilization rose above barbarism not due to war but due to what humans are capable of when the war is over.

agriculture, writing, philosophy, codes of law, etc on up the tech tree, when the peace is secured human achievements have been grand. are you saying that of all the human achievements thus for, no where in this can be found for a universal agreement for justice b/t nation-states? if we can arrive at concepts of justice b/t individuals, it is hardly outside the scope of reason to arrive at concepts of justice b/t nation-states. it is only impossible if we allow it to be so.

Europe and the US exist in a state of peace, is that only because there are better enemies elsewhere? if the whole world dropped away and what was left was Europe and US, would we be fighting them (the Europeans), all other things being the same? In a multi-polar world where relative power is more properly balanced, i think nation-states could very quickly arrive at modes of acceptable behavior b/t each other because the mutual costs of constant warfare would be too much. I think the reality though is that the imperialists in this country in the back of their heads think that in Iraq they are fighting barbarians, and since we don't have to fight the war here, our costs are only monetary and so the urgency of peace is lost on us. how urgent would peace be if our newly born were dying daily due to warfare? and would we want peace if we were being occupied by a Muslim state? we would want peace once we kicked them out, and we see a mirror image of exactly that today. A nation is occupied by the infidel, and although they want their children to stop dying, they won't stop the resistance until we make the commitment to leave and follow through. Middle Easterners have the whole history of the 20th C. to inform them that the occupation is not somehtng to trust. But for the US to leave is to admit the defeat of American imperialism in Iraq, and if we as nation are unwilling to even admit this war is an imperialistic war and nothing more, then as we turn our backs and run, we won't have learned a thing and the cycle will continue. Next time we will target canada, they won't suspect a thing, and they got oil and trees. chop ourselves a wonder and probably have enough left over for a battleship.

 

[dutchking]

Yes, and then would could be one of the weakest nations in the world with yearly riots for idiotic reasons, and a centralized government run by liberals causing more problems than they help. Yep.. exactly what this country needs....

1. If this government were run by liberals (see WWII ) how would we have yearly riots, and more problems? The conservatives are rich scumbags who don't give a crap about:
This country
The troops
Healthcare for the elderly
Illegal Immigration Problems
Imports from China
Innocent Iraqi lives
PEOPLE
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
What they do care about:
MONEY
OIL
I'm guessing you watch Fox news?

I'm not saying that politicians should do whatever they want without regard to what the American people want, but It should be blatantly obvious that A government soley by the people cannot work becasue people, lets face it, are stupid, self serving, ignorant creatures with only their own interests at heart.

You are right on that, and politicians are people. But you're wrong on one thing. Not all people are stupid self serving, ignorant creatures. Many people are, I'm sure your not one of them.

And someone also said something about the Patriot act and all that. I have one question, If you have nothing to hide, and nothing to worry about, why care if the government listens to your conversations?

I'm 13 years old. My family has been here for 400 years. I love my country (but not what it's doing right now). I'm smart as hell. Even though I said that, believe me, I don't have a big ego.
I'm not a terrorist, I have nothing to hide. Listening to what you said, I understand, you do like having your privacy violated in as many ways as possible?
?!WTH?!
I don't care about the Patriot act, I care about the foundations on which THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED UPON! (see previous posts) Don't you? When you see the same ideals that this country was founded upon, being defaced and flushed down the toliet, doesn't that make you sad??!
Man...I thought those previous posts were good enough.

 

[dutchking]

There is a huge difference b/t patriotism and imperialism. The Iraq war is a war of imperialism. At the cost of many many Iraqi babies' lives, the Bush family and their friends have seen their bank accounts soar. In what way is the US safer today than before the spring of '03? In what way are the Iraqis better off? We have been lied to, and anyone who cared to be honest about it all knew we were being lied to before it began. The yes-men of the neo-conservatives (Limbaugh, Hannity and their followers etc) like to bring up this crap about honoring the soldiers, that we should support them while they are in harms way. That's just another fear tactic the people in power like to use as a smokescreen to advance their imperialist agendas. The question of 'supporting our troops' needs to be asked of them, why is it okay for them to send the brothers and sisters of the working class to kill Iraqis and to be put into harms way? How can that be considered patriotic in a war that is clearly not for defense? The imperialist argument is that the US needs to secure the free-flow of oil to the "advanced" (in what way?), industrialized, and "free" nations of the world. BS. The oil producing nations of the world need to sell their oil every bit as much as we need to buy it, the real question is who controls the profits of that oil, and the Bush family etc says that they have the biggest claim to that oil, control of the US military in effect means they (the Bush family etc) are the biggest mafia in the world. Rush Limbaugh et all go along with this non-sense in a blind act of 'patriotism.' Blood lust and greed, that's what this war is about, and the Bush family etc has shown that we (americans) are not the society we like to think we are. Of the people for the people by the people. You think so?

And about nothing to hide, nothing to worry about, that's plain non-sense. The point gets made before this question is even asked. It is a matter of principle that supposedly our government was founded upon, and is a principle that is meant to protect the citizens from the government and a government's inclination to abuse its power.

I love you. I agree with RedRalphWiggum as well.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I didnt enter that discussion expecting it to turn that way, thats just what happened. I cant help it, and unfortunatly I cant do anything about it.

Don't they teach American intelligence operatives how to spell? I know American intelligence services are considered to be rather crappy at present, but surely they don't hire people right off the street.

 

[Spearthrower]

Other than their nuclear deterent which they don't have the balls to use.

It doesnt take "balls" to use nukes - it takes idiots to use them.

 

[Photi]

I love you. I agree with RedRalphWiggum as well.

thanks guys, and i caught ralphy boy's high five from another thread on a different day.

 

[dutchking]

I do not intend to start, or be a part of any flame war, but how is France powerful? Other than their nuclear deterent which they don't have the balls to use. I admit that they have some kickass planes and tanks, but far inferior to anything the US or Britain have produced in the bast 20 years.

You my friend, must stop posting. France is probably (IMO) the fifth most powerful country on this Earth. Disregarding that at some points in history it was the MOST powerful country on this Earth (ever heard of napoleon? ). That's also disregarding that it's society is much more advanced and more HUMAN than the US's. Ever see "Sicko"? Michael moore's movie? In France the government sends babysitters to people's houses to do their LAUNDRY in turn for taxes. That's just one example of many. It's a much more likable society and I'd actually like to move there someday. And I also believe that it will be a much safer place than the US in the future. Have some respect for Human Society. STOP POSTING.

thanks guys, and i caught ralphy boy's high five from another thread on a different day.

Anytime dude. Let's hook up (you me and redralphwiggum) some time and rip the political forum to shreads. PM me whenever you like.

 

[IbnKhaldun]

And someone also said something about the Patriot act and all that. I have one question, If you have nothing to hide, and nothing to worry about, why care if the government listens to your conversations?

That is the saddest thing I have ever seen typed on these boards.

 

[meatwad4289]

Yeah.. I got bored found some quotes I thought I should respodn to.. then thought, hey I might as well get them all done at once. here it goes.

Uh, imo it's the people who support and/or authorized this war who need to pick up the weapon and head to the front lines, not the people who have long been aware of the disaster it would become. I've told army and navy folks that, while I am humbled by their sacrifice, I can't in good conscience support the use to which it is currently being put. In no case has this been received in any way but with respect and understanding.

Here's the kicker, more and more people are joining the military each day, although a few times the news reports the military is not reaching is quota, this is because they increased it heavily, especially when enlistments jumped to 3x the amount of normal 4 years ago for a month, and they need as many as possible. If you disagree with the war why join it? If you agree with the war, then you should do what you can whether it be join or support(thru donations and charities) alot of people in the US are unfit for military service, whether they agree or disagree with war.

I'm criticising the Government that has our men and women in Uniform killed for no purpose. If you support the government right now I think it's safe to say that you could possibly be supporting the killing of those troops for no reason. Just trying to bring you into the light. Not trying to flame or anything.

Not trying to flame? you just called 90% of America murderers. I say 90% because when the war began 90% supported it, Democrats and Republicans alike.

What's wrong with that? It's in the constitution that the government is supposed to stay out of people's buisness. I personally don't like what is going on now. Who's that hurting? My family has been here since 1639 and has built a nation with other families that was supposed to be a place, a utopia, like none other. When I see that being defaced it makes me sad. You have no appreciation what so ever for the freedoms/liberalism on which this nation was founded upon.

It is not in the constitution to leave people alone and stay out of people's business. As matter of fact the constitution really tells us what "WE CAN DO" so in a way it has the government in our business anyway. America wasn't created so people could do what they wanted, if that was true America would have a been a small rebellion that was destroyed in 1812. Freedom is good, but freedom without limits is anarchy, Anarchy is bad, why? Because humans are inheritantly evil. You say you can kill a man and never be punished, SOMEONE is going to kill someone else.

Whoa, someone who actually understands Gore's true role (which Gore has never tried to play up)!!!

In BTS I believe it's computers that enables Internet...which makes sense as the Internet got its start not too long after computers were invented.

Al gore had nothing to do with the Internet. Well he had a little. The basics of the internet was developed in the 70's how they connected military Intelligence and such. Obviously it's more complex now. Al Gore did push legislation through which in turn helped support the creation of the internet. HOWEVER, Al Gore didn't say "Work I did in Washington pushed the creation of the internet" he said ""During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the internet." He pushed the legislation thru to expand the internet to the average person, but he DID not create it.

'

You should direct that comment at George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Paul Wolfowitz and the other draft dodgers.

*cough cough cough cough* you must write your own materal...
SERIOUSLY, this has been said 1000s of times, I think your the only one to mention all of the supposive "draft" dodgers. They didn't you think they did, but you're just told what they want you to be told. their out to get you, can you smell it.. ITs BIGFOOT OMG... conspiracy theories are pathetic, don't spread them. thank you.

Thank you for those words. It's good to hear americans speak up like this. Personally, it makes me sad to see what some people wants to make out of what used to be the american dream. You guys should learn from the french and not let politicians run you over

Didn't the french politicians run all over the people like 2 years ago? and there was a riot something about french not being good workers so the government made it easy to fire them? I could careless, you people didn't give us french toast or french fries, your FRAUDS!!! lol jpjp.. well you didn't

Yes, and then would could be one of the weakest nations in the world with yearly riots for idiotic reasons, and a centralized government run by liberals causing more problems than they help. Yep.. exactly what this country needs....

I'm not saying that politicians should do whatever they want without regard to what the American people want, but It should be blatantly obvious that A government soley by the people cannot work becasue people, lets face it, are stupid, self serving, ignorant creatures with only their own interests at heart.

And someone also said something about the Patriot act and all that. I have one question, If you have nothing to hide, and nothing to worry about, why care if the government listens to your conversations?

The Founding Fathers of the United States realized that the majority of people are stupid. That is why they created the electoral college, so they could filter out the masses. The government doesn't listen to your conversations unless they believe you are connected to terrorist or other illegal activites that are potentially harmful. In which case they could spy on you the same way, before the patriot act. so it doesnt matter. They aren't going to affect the average joe, unless he is talking to Usama in Pakistan about Uranium.

These iraquian insurgents are doing it the wrong way! You don't fight tanks and gunships with AKs! They should fight using Spears or Longbows! That works! Really! *I hope there's no terrorist reading that, or I just defeated America :lol *

NOW THAT....is what belongs here LMAO I LOVE IT!

I wouldnt say that France is weak, and at least France has more respect among people than the US has.

There's a difference between disrepect and dislike. Theres a difference between respect and don't care. For the most part, or atleast in the America's(both continents) people are more than happy to poke fun at France as being cowards, whether its true or not. And yet the when people insult America, they don't insult the power. America was a sleeping dog in the pre 9-11 world.. the dogs up and biting people and growling at others, no bodies taking the chance to get near the dog and calm it down.

Who needs all that crap, when you can get along with people... not everyone is shooting first, and asking questions afterwards...

If the entire world is bent on shooting first(which it is) you better hope ur gun don't jam.

Ever heard of the European Union or NATO?

EU is economy. NATO military relies heavily on the US forces, or at least it did prior to the Iraq war.

Nonetheless no independent country with a sane or insane government would launch an attack on any European country...

hahahhahaahahhaaha.. Germany.. FTW! Europe has a long history of killing it's self. and all it takes is Russia, the US, or China and there is no Europe. Granted the United States would have to abandon the middle east and possibly draft, Russia will draft as well(but their going back to Communism anyway) and China will be ready for anything. But if any of those nations declared war on Europe, i don't think it would last long. England might be the only one capable of putting up a real fight and even then, would they ally themselves with Europe? The next country to declare war on a european country will be a european country.

There has never been a case of government agencies being given powers to spy on the citizens when they havent abused them. And anyway, why *should* they be allowed to snoop freeely on citizens? If there is just cause or reasonable suspicions, they can get a court order.

certain Government agencies in all governments are given power to spy on their own citizens. Court orders take to long. can take anywhere from few hours to a few days, and you have to make sure the judge agrees with you. If you tell a judge that you think this guy is going to blow himself up because hes bought the basics of a bomb, has spread hate speech telling people to rise up and kill the America. Then it's possible the judge could say no. that has happened. If you dont plan on killing innocent people then you don't have to worry, if you dont plan on communicating or supporting terrorist organizations youll be fine. The only people this affects are the people who need to be put in prison.

There is a huge difference b/t patriotism and imperialism. The Iraq war is a war of imperialism. At the cost of many many Iraqi babies' lives, the Bush family and their friends have seen their bank accounts soar. In what way is the US safer today than before the spring of '03? In what way are the Iraqis better off? We have been lied to, and anyone who cared to be honest about it all knew we were being lied to before it began. The yes-men of the neo-conservatives (Limbaugh, Hannity and their followers etc) like to bring up this crap about honoring the soldiers, that we should support them while they are in harms way. That's just another fear tactic the people in power like to use as a smokescreen to advance their imperialist agendas. The question of 'supporting our troops' needs to be asked of them, why is it okay for them to send the brothers and sisters of the working class to kill Iraqis and to be put into harms way? How can that be considered patriotic in a war that is clearly not for defense? The imperialist argument is that the US needs to secure the free-flow of oil to the "advanced" (in what way?), industrialized, and "free" nations of the world. BS. The oil producing nations of the world need to sell their oil every bit as much as we need to buy it, the real question is who controls the profits of that oil, and the Bush family etc says that they have the biggest claim to that oil, control of the US military in effect means they (the Bush family etc) are the biggest mafia in the world. Rush Limbaugh et all go along with this non-sense in a blind act of 'patriotism.' Blood lust and greed, that's what this war is about, and the Bush family etc has shown that we (americans) are not the society we like to think we are. Of the people for the people by the people. You think so?

And about nothing to hide, nothing to worry about, that's plain non-sense. The point gets made before this question is even asked. It is a matter of principle that supposedly our government was founded upon, and is a principle that is meant to protect the citizens from the government and a government's inclination to abuse its power.

Cost of many iraqi babies lives? DON'T YOU EVEN DARE CLAIM THAT THE UNITED STATES IS KILLING BABIES, that is a lie! The only time the United states was forced to kill children was during Vietnam, when the the Vietcong armed children and had them shoot or blow up American troops. In which case it wasn't the American Militarys fault it was the North Vietnamese.

don't give me any of that "His stock is soaring" the presidents stocks are frozen. Like I said conspiracy Theories are pathetic don't spread them. It is possibly they have made money threw their term, however, they haven't made as much as they could if they were out of power. Bill Clinton committed treason by selling Nuclear Technology to China, the money from this deal didn't go to the United States.. Then the Clinton's set up a charity organization while he was president, 50 million dollars is unaccounted for. Double Standards are not good.

How are we safer? Well. We eliminated a POTENTIAL THREAT(Keyword kids: Potential - Means has the ability to do so in the future) and more sprouted up. So we aren't safer, but we're the same. We are safer because Afghanistan is no longer run by terrorist. and We have hurt the terrorist in more ways than one. However, The Iraqis are better off because they no longer have to live in fear that they will be killed off in an experiment, or just for the hell of it. They do have to worry about terrorist attacks more so now, but that is because of Iran and Syria.

Nobody said the war was purely defense. And just because it's not defensive doesn't mean its not patriotic as matter of fact whether its offensive or defensive doesn't come into whether its patriotic or not..And the reason why we are to support the troops is because they are out their Risking their lives. and a lot are joining everyday. You can disagree with a war, but you can support the troops. The troops are not there to kill Iraqis. The IRAQ WAR IS OVER! HELLO! THERES NO OPPOSING ARMY! NEW GOVERNMENT SET UP. The only problem is, they have these guys sneaking over the border causing disorder, the united States troops are there to help keep order, to train the Iraqi Forces so they can keep order. And don't give me that Working class BS, good portion of the military now comes from Upper class homes. I'm related to alot of yuppies(aka Rich and gloat about it) and guess what, Half of them are enlisting. SO don't use the smoke screen of the rich man telling the poor man what to do BS It doesn't work in this case. Go support a socialist movement if thats how you feel. I'm not rich, I'm dirt poor. Do I do what the richman tells me? No i don't. If he ain't payin me, I ain't doing it. And this is not a war for oil. The united states has plenty of oil, but some pansys think some bacteria i na frozen tundra shouldn't be touched, and that newer and Safer nuclear power plants shouldn't be produced. Who really is benefiting from high oil prices? the guys that want to make it cheaper, or the guys that want to make it more expensive and difficult??

America invading Europe in WW2 or WW1 wasn't for defense, neither was Korea, or Veitnam. Going Back further, no war in American history has been for defense except The Revolution, The War of 1812, and the Civil War, and WW2 in the pacific. Thats it. So before you start attempting to bash bush, try and educate yourself

Actually, the Civil War was not a defensive war. There was only one instance inwhich the Southern States attacked the Northern states on their own ground, which was an attempt to make the citizens feel like the worst is coming and have the north end the illegal war they had waged. Wasn't even a civil war,Civil war is two factions inside one country fighting for control of the whole country, the South wanted the south, the north wanted the south. The south was infact it's own country, so it was an invasion.

You don't need to lecture me about imperialism and about my ignorance, yet another smokescreen used as a diversionary tactic to take focus away from what is at hand. what is at hand is a war of imperialism, not defense, benefitting only a very few. the sooner we as a nation own up to that, the sooner we can actually start talking about how to get out of this mess. saying things like 'support our troops, don't criticize et' is used to cause fear and to take our focus away from this discussion, a discussion that we as a nation really need to have. and yes, that means looking at our imperialist past, but that also means not allowing ourselves to use our imperialist past to justify our imperialist present. the history of mankind, beginning with Sumeria, is one of imperialism. have we not advanced ourselves since then?

So what your sayign is we should stop supporting the troops? You can say I dont support a war, but not to support troops, which means DONT DISRESPECT THE TROOPS LIKE YOU MF'ERS DID IN VIETNAM, NEVER HAVE I EVER BEEN SO DISGUSTED IN MY LIFE WITH AMERICA HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE ATTACK SOLDIERS DOING THEIR JOB! Doenst matter if you disagree with the war or not GIVE THEM RESPECT, they were braver than you SO STFU. no one is saying you cant hate the war, as matter offact thats your smoek screen is that you say support the troops is a smokescreen. Yay for smokescreens. Show them respect, and if you spit on a soldier, prepare to get your ass kicked. You don't spit on another man and expect to get away unharmed. So if you don't want to support the troops dont care if they die, then fine. If you treat them poorly jsut because they went to war, then your an ass. now if their an ass then go ahead, but soley becuase they are in the military?? ull be hated.

Most of the people using slaves one day said/thought they would never live without slaves...
Abolition of slavery in each one of the countries it happened were met with hostilities by many, but it happened anyway.

Yeah but, the abolition movement was more immediate, didn't allow people who relied on slaves a time frame to break away from it. If your entire economy relies on slavery and someone comes in and abolishes your economy crashes, your family starves, the former slaves starve, the only ones wh odont starve are the ones that flee to another nation where they slow down the economy there causing more problems.

Wether you call it defence or offence, the US has never done anything without having something to gain. Even though the US lacks history, the history of its support to some groups and suddenly cutting relationship with these, is certainly getting back ten-fold now. Too many shortterm decisions, and too few longterm. But I guess nothing wins an election, like a good old war

No war in the history of mankind was waged without something to gain. there is no such thing as a long term decision made by a democratic nation.

it causes fear by in effect saying to criticize the war is to be against our troops, who in the main come from middle and working class america. we are afraid of that, of thinking in a way that might bring them harm, and so much of america doesn't want to criticize the war for fear of what that will do to the troops, because these troops are our family. no one wants to think that their son or their niece or their cousin died in vain. so we as a nation are afraid to face what in the end may be the truth, that this is a war of imperialism, not a war of self-defense. we were sold on that by bush, that we had somehting to fear from saddam, and that this war is a war of pre-emptive self-defense. if we as a nation were accustomed to speaking candidly about our imperialist ways, that lie would have never held water. so they the imperialists keep the fear up so we the nation never discover that we here in the present are imperialists. we don't like to think of ourselves as the enemy.

i think you repeated everything from before, like a paranoid guy with nothing better than the to criticize a government rather than do anything about it. I give people who protest more credit when they actually attempt something, like idk. Running for political office. I give that air head sheehan credit, i disagree with her and in my own opinion she is using her sons memory as a way to get attention, whether intentional or not. But shes threatining to run against pelosi, now whether or not she will is a different story. You obviously dont like the government, but your repeating over and over again, try writing a letter to a congressman or woman. sure thye wont look at it, but atleast you tried to do something rather than complain on the net.

I know that the US has always fought its wars with an objective. Thats the point of wars. And the US is notorious for being isolationist up until the end of WW2, when the US found itself as one of two superpowers. Then the sudden switch to having a massive responsiblity caused alot of bad blood which still is around. Not to mention jealosy.

Actually it was an isolationist up til WWI, then parts of the US were rallying to go back, while others wanted to open up. eventually we had to open up. The United States was starting to earn the "responsibility" of policing the world during Teddy Roosevelts run. If it werent for him we wouldn't be the "world police" we are today, we'd also be a third rate nation. The LEague of nations was to expand upon policing the world, however it was to share the responsibility. the United States fell back into a isolationist phase, however T.R. helped bring peace to Japan and Russia, this further pushed the "policing" After World War II in most conflicts people complained that the United states was not involved, and when they did they complained that they were involved. The United States became the Police. Wanted but not wanted at the same time. check out history books this is the case. I'm sure if we said no the first few times we'd be fine.. aka if we would of allowed Nazi Germany to prosper we wouldnt be critized as much.

jealousy You've been living in a dreamworld Neo!

Responsibilty That's the root of all evil! No nation want the US to be the world-copper.

And at the moment, when talking superpowers, I think the US should start envying China instead...

See above. the united States became the copper. Still is the copper and despite not wanting to be will remain. Why? because the other governments demand it. ITs like in Civ. someone needs help in a war, you help them, the minute the wars over someone else asks for help, then someone else, eventually your helping everyone fight wars against eachother, and they realize, "You helped our worst enemy" -10 We should of did as Washington had said, and not get into internation affairs.

That's probably the most arrogant statement so far. No, I'm certainly not jealous. And as I see it, your military might work, but everything else is failing... partly because of arrogant views like yours.

And about China... Are you looking for trouble, or whats your problem? I havent seen China attacking all over the world.

So your not jealous of the United States of America? not one bit? theres never been a time you wish you were in America? Theres never been a time you wish your country had the power of America's military? Trust me, everyone wants power. If you play civ.. YOU definitely want power, as it stands America has power.

accepting your argument that americans have all this power, why don't we use that power to actually advance peace? we as americans could do so much for the good of humanity, but we continue to elect imperialists thinking that it is good for self-defense. if we would learn to look at ourselves honestly, then maybe we would see that other nations have very real grievances against the us government. with that honesty, brokering peace, genuine peace in the absence of imperialism, would become a more practical objective. but instead we continue to believe that we can have peace through dominance. we lie to ourselves daily.

You can not advance towards peace unless you have 3 things one world government, unlimited supplies of resources, and equal treatment for all. one world government will never be willingly allowed, it would need to be a conquest. Unlimited Supplies means we need matter converters... We got along time. Equal treatment means everyone should be left alone by the government or told what to do by the government, if you leave them alone they complain about unfair treatment, if you tell them what to do they complain about being told what to do. It wont happen until we start colonizing other worlds, even then, thered have to be Aliens. No aliens = no unity. Why? we need to unite as a people if we're going to act on Intergalactic level. If theres no aliens, then it's going to be a rush to Alpha centuri after all.

How can you enter a discussion, without providing facts for your conclusions. Saying that you have facts, but cant reveal any isnt helping anything - I wouldnt believe you. Heck... I dont even believe Bush anyway...

half the post made in this lack facts. George bush makes millions of dollars off his oil stocks!(weres the fact?) They are Draft dodgers!(wheres the facts) I hardly ever believe the internet unless they have a credible resource. Wiki don't cut it.

While it may be true that the Bush Administration hasn't done anything that administrations before them haven't done, it is true that this Administration isn't afraid to admit it. While either way, the removal of our freedoms blows and we have little we can do about it, I'd much rather have an administration that isn't gloating about it. This administration seems to get their jollies off of stating that they are taking away our freedoms and trying to make us feel like retards for getting upset over it. The admins in the past were much more secretive about it and I liked that better. Go figure.

The Administration never admitted to most of the things it's accused of. they are jhsut accused over and over again that conspiracy theories gain popularity, like that loose change thing, written by teenagers, proven wrong by scientist, and yet its been yelled louder and got it's point across, however wrong that point is.

I could scream all day I have a duck on my head. Doesn't make it true. But some one will hear me scream and they will tell someone else "someone was screaming I have a duck on my head today" then theyll tell people "someone had a duck on their head" the next thing you know theres conspiracy theory on the duck head aliens attacking from the ocean because of global warming, then the next week global warming cured, ducks recede to ocean, no casualities.

----
The bottom line is, I don't care where you're from, what you look like, what you believe. You disrepect someone just because they did something you didn't do your an ass. You attack an administration for doing things others have done, yet don't attack others, your an ass. you make false claims about draft dodging and bank account status, your an ass. The current Administration has made mistakes, and because of media hasn't been able to cover it up. If our mass media wasn't as annoying as it is today, nor if it was biased(one way or the other) I seriously don't think we'd have as much of a problem as we do against this war. Now.. CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC.. poking fun at the world. the way it should be..

Also.. somewhere in here someone said Ireland drunks the most? I believe Germany has the highest consumption of alcohol, then Ireland, then I believe is third the United States(because we have so Irish and German in our midst) I can outdrink anyone I know when it comes to beer. You'd think that theyd add Beer festivals to random events, then have "We drank well together! and had fun" +6 and " You shattered a bottle on my head!" -6


Also some one mentioned Michael moore... yeah that should be a -500 or Instant War to allow him to reside in your country

 

[jdurg]

The problem with the Patriot Act is that it doesn't force the government to have ANY just cause at all for breaking the law. I'm not worried about being randomly thrown in jail for doing some illegal because I'm not doing anything illegal. What I worry about is someone in the government developing a personal grudge against me for some stupid reason, then creating a law after the fact and using the Patriot Act as reason for throwing me in jail. THAT is what has so many people up in arms over it.

Right now, if the government wants to, they can listen in to any conversation you have and declare something you said a "threat to the nation's security". Under the Patriot Act, they would have the right to invade your home, arrest you, and throw you in jail before you could even blink. No warrant, no reason for arrest, nothing. THAT is what is scary.

 

[dutchking]

Not trying to flame? you just called 90% of America murderers. I say 90% because when the war began 90% supported it, Democrats and Republicans alike.

Wow,
That is the stupidest post aimed at me so far. I am an American, meatwad, I didn't call anyone a murderer. I was proposing that maybe we shouldn't be sending the troops into a useless "war" to be killed. And I said that if you support the war at this point, your either ******** or want the troops to be killed, and that's not mentioning the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that are dead because of the chaos.

It is not in the constitution to leave people alone and stay out of people's business. As matter of fact the constitution really tells us what "WE CAN DO" so in a way it has the government in our business anyway. America wasn't created so people could do what they wanted, if that was true America would have a been a small rebellion that was destroyed in 1812. Freedom is good, but freedom without limits is anarchy, Anarchy is bad, why? Because humans are inheritantly evil. You say you can kill a man and never be punished, SOMEONE is going to kill someone else.

I was trying to get the point across (and obviously didn't get it through your thick head) that this country, this country. Was founded on the ideals that the people would have their own private lives, free of religious persecution, free to open buisnesses, and pretty much anything else that isn't against the law that they wanted to do. I was using the example "the constition" because it symbolizes what this country was about. And I believe that when the government deliberatley violates these ideals of privacy and freedom, they are going against what this country was founded upon and what it standed for.
[EDIT]I read your last paragraph.
?!WTH?!
Anyone but YOU (even jungleboot ) should be calling us asses.
[EDIT]Still have a bone to pick.

Also.. somewhere in here someone said Ireland drunks the most? I believe Germany has the highest consumption of alcohol, then Ireland, then I believe is third the United States(because we have so Irish and German in our midst) I can outdrink anyone I know when it comes to beer. You'd think that theyd add Beer festivals to random events, then have "We drank well together! and had fun" +6 and " You shattered a bottle on my head!" -6

WTH is wrong with you? Are you racist as well? I'm also Irish and German, maybe I took offense to that?

Also some one mentioned Michael moore... yeah that should be a -500 or Instant War to allow him to reside in your country

I did. And guess what?! I also think Michael Moore is a great man. If any one man deserves most credit for trying (it won't completely happen because of "asses" like you) to make a change in this country, it is Michael Moore. Please do tell me, meatwad, what did you do today to help change this country besides sit on your ass and make a fool (or ass) of yourself on your computer while eating Cheese puffs and smoking pot?

 

[Photi]

The bottom line is, I don't care where you're from, what you look like, what you believe. You disrepect someone just because they did something you didn't do your an ass...

don't have time atm to respond to this rant, but i would like to point out that 'your an ass' is actually 'you're an ass.' CAPS don't make the strength of an argument, so i don't know what the point of that was. anyway if i get time...

and there is a difference b/t the upper class and the bourgeoisie. The communist manifesto explains it in more detail.

 

[Slaughter]

Ah yes true. It explains a lot!
And anyway, the WW would be killer so late in the time and probably wouldn't be worthy. So many people unhappy with the kill of future super-models and future soccer's players that the WW would make up almost for a revolution!
Look US against Iraq! So much WW, and the war was so small...Imagine if the 190 millions of people in Brazil started to suicide themselves with bombs against soldiers!

Actually I think that is why nobody invaded China before!

Can you imagine if the governament of country with 190 milions of people AND the Cristo Redentor is Invaded? We can easily whip many tanks, soldiers, spears, longbows and planes and pretty much anything and then switch to our previous civics after that in a instant, no penality, anarchy or anything! At the worst case, we can hold out until the enemy is brought to a halt with so much WW that he decides to go away because his agressive Neighboor is tank-rushing him again! BEAT THAT!!

 

[dutchking]

The problem with the Patriot Act is that it doesn't force the government to have ANY just cause at all for breaking the law. I'm not worried about being randomly thrown in jail for doing some illegal because I'm not doing anything illegal. What I worry about is someone in the government developing a personal grudge against me for some stupid reason, then creating a law after the fact and using the Patriot Act as reason for throwing me in jail. THAT is what has so many people up in arms over it.

Right now, if the government wants to, they can listen in to any conversation you have and declare something you said a "threat to the nation's security". Under the Patriot Act, they would have the right to invade your home, arrest you, and throw you in jail before you could even blink. No warrant, no reason for arrest, nothing. THAT is what is scary.

That is also a very good point. I'm still not worried about it. Good post. I agree.

So your not jealous of the United States of America? not one bit? theres never been a time you wish you were in America? Theres never been a time you wish your country had the power of America's military? Trust me, everyone wants power. If you play civ.. YOU definitely want power, as it stands America has power.

Actually, meat (may I call you that?), I'm sure, SURE, he'd rather be in Europe than here. The Euro is worth almost twice as much as the dollar, and it's a much more relaxed lifestyle there. At this point you are clearly a psychopath. Tell me also, meat, how long have you been here? Since 1639? Didn't think so...If you'd like to brag about "your" country's millitary, why don't you go join up and get your ass blown off in Iraq? Sound good? So no one takes offense to that, I'm in full support of the troops. I think the government is putting their lives at risk for no reason. Do you not agree?
To be honest with you, I think most Americans would rather be in Europe. To move somewhere because of their millitary is really quite ********. Meatwad, why would he move here for the millitary. Think about it:
If we were alive 200 years ago, would you move to Britain? To be part of a "powerful" nation? Didn't think so.

No! Of course not. How many American's lives is Saddam Hussein worth?

I'm not lying, he said that. Look it up. I rest my case.

 

[Photi]

Wow,
That is the stupidest post aimed at me so far. I am an American, meatwad, I...

ROFLMAO! he brought meatwad onto himself!

 

[Photi]

@dutchking, still laughing, but how does anyone post 1293 posts since joining in April of '07? that's quite the feat.

 

[dutchking]

^Lol. Thanks. It's pretty easy. (just look for threads like these ) Just 10 posts a day. (or less, look at mine). Some people have been here for a week and have 200. TheLastOne36 has like...100 everyday (it seems) Depends on how much time you've got. It's the summer, so I've got tons of time.
Still waiting for a mod to:
1. Close the thread.
2. Move it to Politics.

 

[Slaughter]

I think it's better to move some posts to politcs, and let the humour here. It's fun!