Beggars and hangers on

[Farm Boy]

I'm kinda with Hygro on this. If I'm handing out money to somebody on the street because they ask for it, which doesn't happen often, it's not like what I'm giving them is going to alter their life. "I was having a really rough patch, then this guy with funny hair gave me $5 and it turned everything around!" Yea, you can multiply that x10 and it isn't happening. If I'm giving out cash, which I might as well because I don't think most major US cities let homeless people actually starve(so what's the point of giving them a burger, really?), I figure what I'm really buying for them is a 40 or a hit of whatever it is they use.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

You are not going to alter their life, but if that is all they have, it can keep it going. One paycheck is not going to alter your life either. For some, being homeless is not permanent.

As to food, I do not live in a big city, so there is not the same network of care. There are some foodbanks and soup kitchens, but one meal a day is the most they get. If you are afraid that the money is not going to be put to good use, it is one way to make sure it is.

I also find it condescending to assume that a homeless person is any more likely to buy drugs or alcohol, and a bit of a cop-out.

 

[luiz]

I also find it condescending to assume that a homeless person is any more likely to buy drugs or alcohol, and a bit of a cop-out.

It is a cop-out, and I don't endorse using it as an excuse not to help (in the same way I don't endorse the excuse "the government should help them, what can I do??"), but do you honestly believe homeless people are not more likely to buy drugs and alcohol?

 

[Farm Boy]

I didn't say that train of thought causes me to not disgourge 5 bucks from my wallet, merely that when I do so I do not expect a homeless person, anymore than I would one of my friends, to spend a one-time gift of $5 on something other than entertainment.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

What makes a homeless person any more likely to want to get high? Honestly?

You can make the argument that some people may choose to beg over getting a job. I don't buy that there are any significant number of such people, but I can accept it happens. But what make you think that ANYone would give up living in a home to live on the street? Many
homeless people have lost their jobs, or are there because of a family situation. Their goal is to return to a home. The fact is that homeless people do not have the money to do so. If they cannot afford a roof over their heads or dinner for themselves and their families, how are they going to have the money to buy drugs?

I know (and when I was younger knew more) people who get go out drinking on a regular basis, or who smoke weed and do other drugs. What do they have in common - disposable income.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Farm Boy - I hope that your friends already have their rent/mortgage paid, and food in their freezer. When I pull out some cash for/with friends, I expect it is to have a good time.

When I give cash to a homeless person/charity, I expect that they have neither a roof over their heads, nor a fridge with food, and therefore, I expect that the money will go to satisfy those needs, rather than wants.

 

[luiz]

What makes a homeless person any more likely to want to get high? Honestly?

You can make the argument that some people may choose to beg over getting a job. I don't buy that there are any significant number of such people, but I can accept it happens. But what make you think that ANYone would give up living in a home to live on the street? Many
homeless people have lost their jobs, or are there because of a family situation. Their goal is to return to a home. The fact is that homeless people do not have the money to do so. If they cannot afford a roof over their heads or dinner for themselves and their families, how are they going to have the money to buy drugs?

I know (and when I was younger knew more) people who get go out drinking on a regular basis, or who smoke weed and do other drugs. What do they have in common - disposable income.

I thought it was common knowledge that substance abuse was more common among the homeless. But here it is:

Substance use among runaway and homeless youth in three national samples.
...
CONCLUSIONS: Many homeless and runaway youth use tobacco, alcohol, and other drugs at rates substantially higher than nonrunaway and nonhomeless youth, indicating a need for comprehensive and intensive substance abuse prevention and treatment services for these youth.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380799/

Granted, this is only about homeless youth (it's what I found after 10 seconds googling), but shouldn't be that different with the overall population.

Edit: Another one. This time with a more restricted geographical region but a more comprehensive age pool:

Drug use disorders and treatment contact among homeless adults in Alameda County, California.
...
CONCLUSION: Rates of current drug use disorders for homeless adults were more than eight times higher than general population estimates. However, estimates of drug problems among homeless adults vary as a function of case ascertainment and sampling strategy. Estimates based only on samples from urban areas may overestimate drug problems among the area's larger homeless populations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380798/

So the homeless, specially the urban homeless, seem far more likely to abuse drugs than the general population.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I would like to see the source, and even assuming it is accurate (do you think the average person is going to admit using drugs?), linking "many homeless and runaway youth" to homeless people in general is a bit of a stretch.

 

[luiz]

I would like to see the source, and even assuming it is accurate (do you think the average person is going to admit using drugs?), linking "many homeless and runaway youth" to homeless people in general is a bit of a stretch.

I provided the source, and see the edit.

Again, I'm not arguing against helping them at all. But drug abuse is a serious issue among the homeless, far more so than among the general population. Maybe the rate of recreational marijuana use is bigger among the middle and upper classes, but hardcore dependency on nasty drugs is certainly much higher among the homeless.

 

[dutchfire]

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/The-city-s-panhandlers-tell-their-own-stories-4929388.php

53% panhandle seven days a week

What do they do the other days?

 

[Farm Boy]

Farm Boy - I hope that your friends already have their rent/mortgage paid, and food in their freezer. When I pull out some cash for/with friends, I expect it is to have a good time.

When I give cash to a homeless person/charity, I expect that they have neither a roof over their heads, nor a fridge with food, and therefore, I expect that the money will go to satisfy those needs, rather than wants.

When I give to a charity, yes - I generally expect that whatever organization it is has an actual plan for attempting to create positive change over time. I expect it has the manpower and knowledge to attempt to use the money that was mine wisely. If I'm giving somebody some cash because no other reason they asked for it then I am not doing research. I am not giving in a format that can be policed and doled out. There's a guy asking for some cash so he can buy stuff with it. I expect he'll buy whatever stuff he wants. If he uses booze, then that's fine, I've given him some booze. I would do as much for my friends. If he uses something else, then that's what he's going to use it on as well. My willingness to, unwillingness to, or decision to buy him a hamburger instead is not going to influence the fact that he uses booze or something else. My decision to buy him a hamburger is not likely to make the difference between his ability to acquire adequate if not great sustenance in an urban area. If he were to ask for money to buy lunch, then I might buy him lunch. If the appeal is "I'm hungry, please" then I'll acquire food. If the appeal is "I'd like some money, please" then he's asking for purchasing power. Those are two different things.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Sorry - for some reason I did not see the cites there yesterday (long day at work). But the article studied youths in shelters, "street youth", and youth with "runaway experience". - not homeless people.

I certainly am not saying that homeless people use drugs in great numbers (people who are not homeless also use drugs, and are less likely to admit it). But to assume that someone is going to be a drug user because they are homeless is wrong. To use that as a reason not to give a person some money or food is a cop out. To say that homeless people should just pick themselves up,stop being lazy and get a job is either the height of insenstivity or shows a stunning lack of compassion.

I also give to charities, but some of them are scams, and even the legit ones waste lots of money.

Farm Boy - not trying to pick a fight with you on this or anything else, but when I see some of these posts, it makes me cringe.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm not saying it is an excuse to not give, I don't know where you are getting that from. What I'm saying is the possibility that any such money, so given, could be used for drugs is not particularly troubling to me?