Beggars and hangers on

[Zelig]

5% of panhandlers in San Francisco don't live in San Francisco?

 

[KmDubya]

imo if beggars want food/money etc they should just get a job. if nobody in their town is hiring, just buy a greyhound ticket and move.

Beggars have a job - begging.

As shown in the data from Hygro begging in San Francisco generates enough to survive long term (over five years) and provides food, alcohol and drugs. It is a lifestyle choice.

 

[Hygro]

5% of panhandlers in San Francisco don't live in San Francisco?

Commuter panhandling. They might come in from Oakland or Daily City or possibly further (although that gets expensive). SF is geographically pretty small.

Beggars have a job - begging.

As shown in the data from Hygro begging in San Francisco generates enough to survive long term (over five years) and provides food, alcohol and drugs. It is a lifestyle choice.

Well, it's a lifestyle choice in so far as starving/living an even poorer life is the other choice. Look at the stats and you can see it's a pretty down and out group of disabled uneducated aging alone men. So they find themselves so broke they are homeless so they panhandle.

It's worth noting that most homeless people aren't pandhandlers even if most panhandlers are homeless.

 

[warpus]

I generally don't give money to people who beg for it, because it's not a long term solution to their problems and the money might very well end up being used for something else, in which case it wouldn't be a short term solution either.

I feel bad about it, but I'm not a solution to their problems. I'm not sure what is, but it ain't me.

I do have a soft spot for kids who beg.. When I was in Cambodia a girl who couldn't have been older than 6 came up to me and wanted me to buy a set of postcards she was selling.. 10 postcards for $1.. I felt so incredibly bad I bought them off her for $1.50.. I'm sure the money went to her mother or who knows what, but in that case I just couldn't say no.

 

[Kyriakos]

I generally don't give money to people who beg for it, because it's not a long term solution to their problems and the money might very well end up being used for something else, in which case it wouldn't be a short term solution either.

I feel bad about it, but I'm not a solution to their problems. I'm not sure what is, but it ain't me.

I do have a soft spot for kids who beg.. When I was in Cambodia a girl who couldn't have been older than 6 came up to me and wanted me to buy a set of postcards she was selling.. 10 postcards for $1.. I felt so incredibly bad I bought them off her for $1.50.. I'm sure the money went to her mother or who knows what, but in that case I just couldn't say no.

Indeed.

To see a child beg, is really quite the punch to the head for me as well. I mean we all know how hard life can get, so imagine if we also had the crappy start to be a beggar.

It is just pitiful that this exists.

 

[Zelig]

I generally don't give money to people who beg for it, because it's not a long term solution to their problems and the money might very well end up being used for something else, in which case it wouldn't be a short term solution either.

Soberness is a short-term problem.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

If you are afraid it will go to booze, you can buy them some food. Earlier this winter I saw a guy who obviouly was hard up, and it was cold, so I got him a Burger King meal - told him I was sorry I could not get coffee with it, but you should have seen him smile when he took it.

There are some professional beggars, and I am sure more than once I have been taken - small price to pay.

 

[Kyriakos]

I remember one night, exiting a Deli in central London, at around midnight.
There was a beggar outside it, who was a cripple (iirc he had lost a leg). So i decided to give him some of the food i bought.
He did not smile or react in any way, just raised his hand to take the sandwitch still in its packet, as if it was to be expected it would be handed to him.

Which is sad again. Not sure what exactly was going on there. Obviously different people deal with hardships in different ways.

 

[Silurian]

I remember one night, exiting a Deli in central London, at around midnight.
There was a beggar outside it, who was a cripple (iirc he had lost a leg). So i decided to give him some of the food i bought.
He did not smile or react in any way, just raised his hand to take the sandwitch still in its packet, as if it was to be expected it would be handed to him.

Which is sad again. Not sure what exactly was going on there. Obviously different people deal with hardships in different ways.

He may well have been cold and depressed and so not felt like reacting to your kindness.

 

[Hygro]

Honestly this might sound crazy but if someone's life sucks so hard that they'd rather use the money for drugs, I really don't mind that they do. Our society hasn't made room for everyone and if you're really down and out, the only home you have is your own mind.

 

[Synobun]

I remember one night, exiting a Deli in central London, at around midnight.
There was a beggar outside it, who was a cripple (iirc he had lost a leg). So i decided to give him some of the food i bought.
He did not smile or react in any way, just raised his hand to take the sandwitch still in its packet, as if it was to be expected it would be handed to him.

Which is sad again. Not sure what exactly was going on there. Obviously different people deal with hardships in different ways.

For some people accepting help is an active reminder of their misery.

 

[Formaldehyde]

As shown in the data from Hygro begging in San Francisco generates enough to survive long term (over five years) and provides food, alcohol and drugs. It is a lifestyle choice.

Right. That $25 a day while being homeless is quite a "lifestyle choice", instead of being a necessity in many cases.

Commuter panhandling. They might come in from Oakland or Daily City or possibly further (although that gets expensive). SF is geographically pretty small.

I'm pretty sure that SF Gate wouldn't have stated that 95% of them live in SF when they really meant the SF bay area.

 

[Takhisis]

Beggars have a job - begging.

No. That's an occupation. Don't insult both them and yourself by calling it 'a job'.

For some people accepting help is an active reminder of their misery.

Indeed, this sometimes happens.

As shown in the data from Hygro begging in San Francisco generates enough to survive long term (over five years) and provides food, alcohol and drugs. It is a lifestyle choice.

Right. That $25 a day while being homeless is quite a "lifestyle choice", instead of being a necessity in many cases.

Of course, my good sir! They could all get a job right away if they wanted to -just ask!

 

[Phrossack]

Honestly this might sound crazy but if someone's life sucks so hard that they'd rather use the money for drugs, I really don't mind that they do. Our society hasn't made room for everyone and if you're really down and out, the only home you have is your own mind.

But would you give your own money to someone if you knew they'd buy drugs with it?

 

[Hygro]

But would you give your own money to someone if you knew they'd buy drugs with it?

I mean I buy people beers, what's the difference? I rarely give panhandlers anything but if I do it's because I think they are for real and they also did something that contributed to my experience as a person that had they not been in that situation I wouldn't have had that experience. You know, like someone telling you some local lore or something I dunno.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

That is why I sometimes buy them food. Frankly, some of these people would have a hard time not being thrown out of a store, or are embarrassed, so for that reason alone it makes sense.

And I refuse to believe that for more than a small number, it is a lifestyle choice.

1. The economy sucks the world over, especially in cities.
2. Most people have an innate sense of pride. Imagine asking for a handout, and someone you know (or knew) saw you. Some people don't care. most do.
3. Many people, even with jobs, have a hard time paying for a home and essentials. Most of us are lucky, and eat 3 meals a day.

I also can't make a blanket judgment. Hey - what if you are wrong (it could happen)?

 

[Cutlass]

My father refuses to give money to beggers and usually drives away muttering something along the lines of "He should just get a job," "They're probably lazy drunks." "Just sign up for welfare." etc.

To me, this attitude is so condescending and ignorant of the begger's situation. The person might've just hit a rough patch in life, they might be too occupied with familial issues, maybe they have a mental illness making it hard to get a job.

There are plenty of reasons for why that person can be poor, and it doesn't help them at all if we yell and hound them to "just get a job". It is inconsiderate to expect them to just help themselves, and it would be much kinder to give them spare change if they beg for it. CMV.

Edit: thanks everybody for all the replies! Theres alot of good perspectives here that help me understand things better.

And your experience is likely you leaping to conclusions out of personal prejudice or an attempt to assuage your conscience when you walk away from a person in need. Hey, they don't really need help, half if 'em are conmen and the rest choose to be homeless to enjoy the sweet, sweet bum lifestyle.

You know why homeless people panhandle? It's because nobody, and I mean nobody hires people to work out of a shelter except those day labor outfits. Not even temp agencies will touch you when you're in the shelters.

And day labor....let me tell you how that goes, hey? You show up early, because they put you in a queue for the jobs available for that day...and I mean "be there at six in the morning if you want to work" early. Then you sit around waiting for your name to be called, sometimes all day just to be turned away because there weren't enough jobs for the day. If you do get called for a job, you take it no matter what, because if you beg off, you get dumped to the back of the queue, not just that day, but every day from there on out until you show willing to work whatever task they deem to send your way. If you're lucky, you get sent to a place like the wreath factory to stick bows on Christmas wreaths. If you're unlucky, you get sent to the cannery to pack sardines or the town dump to clean the stortm fences. If you're really unlucky, you wind up on a job site slinging around a three-hundred-plus pound concrete hose for a basement pour by yourself. (That last one is the reason why my guts are currently held in by a shitton of surgical mesh - multiple hernias are such great fun....)

And you do this for minimum wage for only the time you spend on the job site. If you don't have a vehicle, you pay someone to get you to the job. Your check is handed to you at the end of the day, and because you can't open a checking account without an address, you lose a substantial chunk of your paltry check to a cashing service, just to get access to your earnings. And then you get back to the shelter late because you worked, and all the beds are full, so you get to sleep in a hard plastic chair in the cafeteria with the TV blairing all night and the lights on, trying to ignore the unmedicated schizophrenic in the corner wailing her divine visions, ignoring the fistfight over someone stiffing another out of a cigarette, only to rinse, lather, and repeat the next day.

So to recap, you invest between twelve and sixteen hours of your time between waiting for a job, getting to the job site, working, and get back to the agency to get your check, and you likely wind up dead tired, reeking of trash or fish, or bodily broken, and they hand you a check for on average about thirty-five bucks. You give a fiver to the guy that got you to the job, pay another fiver to get access to your money, and end the day $25 richer. And you get to start the next day, and the next, and the next, sleep deprived and in physical agony, just to try to scrape the miniscule sums together you can earn into enough money to rent a room to get yourself an address, so you can stand even a remote chance of getting a real honest-to-goodness nine-to-five job and get a life again.

Panhandling (or worse, blowing strangers for a fiver) is far more profitable, if you're willing to sell your dignity to do it, and it's less likely to physically destroy you. There's your choices when you're homeless....unless someone steps in to help.

You just keep pretending that people choose that life, if it makes you feel better. I know different - that life is the jagged rocks waiting for you at the based of the cliff should you ever fall.

Edit: Many thanks for the gold!

Edit 2: /u/DorianGainsboro popped into the thread mentioning the /r/homeless subreddit, dedicated to figuring out ways to alleviate homelessness. If you're inclined, go check it out!

Edit 3: It's come up often enough in the comments that I guess I need to say something here - the /r/best of link doesn't provide context, you'll need to view full comments to see I wasn't replying to the OP, but to something a few comments down the tree.

http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyvie...its_insensitive_to_expect_the_poor_to/cfb0dxu

 

[Hygro]

I just think most of them will choose for themselves better than I for them. Even the crack addicts, though to get money from me you can't be acting cracked out so I guess that filters a number of folk.

 

[luiz]

Crack addicts ought to be interned for their own sake and that of society as whole. Other than that, you're correct.

 

[warpus]

Indeed.

To see a child beg, is really quite the punch to the head for me as well. I mean we all know how hard life can get, so imagine if we also had the crappy start to be a beggar.

It is just pitiful that this exists.

There were several moms with their "daughters", clothed in rags, lying on the sidewalk, near my hotel in Bangkok. You'd be walking down the street, there's food vendors here, restaurants there, a lot of activity, and then you see a woman and a small child just lying there on the ground.

I put "daughters" in quotes because I figured that the whole thing might be a bit of a setup - something that my Thai friend confirmed once I got back and asked.

It really touches your soul though.. on my last day there I saw a little girl, couldn't have been older than 5, lying there in rags, with a puppy beside her. Such an overwhelming wave of emotions came over me that I put a 100 baht note in the cup .. That's just over $3.. If the money is spent well, it will feed her for at least a day. I wanted to put a 1000 baht note in there, I had some left and it was my last day.. but I figured somebody might fish it out of the cup, as the girl was asleep and the 1000 baht note is very distinct.

I'm glad I didn't after I found out that it's probably a "scam".. i.e. my money would go to some douchebag instead of the child and her family.

I was pretty torn at that moment.. it depressed me a day and the feeling lingered with me for the next 24 hours.

Honestly this might sound crazy but if someone's life sucks so hard that they'd rather use the money for drugs, I really don't mind that they do. Our society hasn't made room for everyone and if you're really down and out, the only home you have is your own mind.

I'm not sure if I can join you in that sentiment. First of all, there are many different types of drugs out there.. There is relatively safe stuff like marijuana, there is more dangerous and addictive stuff like alcohol, and then there's life altering stuff like crack and heroin.

I wouldn't want any of those people doing crack or heroin.. Why? Because it gets them hooked and they'd want to do it again and again and again.

If all we're talking about is a joint here or there, then that's fine. It takes the edge off.. but crack? Nah man.. no way.