[GS] Benchmarks Thread: Compare your T100 stats!
- Thread starter yung.carl.jung
- Start date
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
yeah I should fix that. I always get huge/large mixed up. Huge maps are probably cool but I cba with the long loading times. large maps already take too long to load/next turn!
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I formulated a small guide for rapid expansion here: Civ VI early game guide for the Decidedly Average (feedback welcome!)
You can also read my post here, where I settled 23 cities (iirc) peacefully without even being declared on (it is a large map though): Benchmarks Thread: Compare your T100 stats!
If you want you can try out the map, the t1 save is attached! It has room for probably settling 30 cities. It was my first time ever playing Greece and my third or fourth game in GS so you should have no problem getting to my benchmarks
I would recommend you to first try out the Early Empire rush strategy, because that way you get your cities out and online the fastest! If you feel comfortable with that you can use the ancestral hall strat.
On a related note, it seems I completely forgot to post about my Rome game here, what a shame! I will just copy paste my other post and add the T100 benchmarks:
I finished SV on Turn 184 with Rome. Not on Hall of Fame settings at all, just playing a game on my preferred ones.
Large map / 20 CS / one less enemy Civ / Standard Speed / Lakes (obviously cooked settings!)
Here you can see my T100 benchmark. Science and Culture is decent but not amazing. GPT is good. Faith and TR are abysmal!
I killed two AIs this game which is why I have so many cities but such bad relations. This was also an Ancestral Hall game.
Victory screenshot (well, one turn before actually). I was very unlucky in almost every regard: unlucky with chops and having too little aluminum/not planning energy in my chop city, capital had abysmal production so I set up another space-port city, also of course the last hidden tech was the one I needed couldve been a sub T17x victory for sure but oh well!
the map seemed insane at first but turned out to be mostly okay. I could have settled like 30 cities here, but I think I would've finished slower. The land is not that good. So much free space, but I don't think it would've been worth it. Even some of my cities were just straight up bad, like they only had one or two good production tiles. I think I really pushed the boundary of how many cities you should settle in my last 2 games. Settling ~15 cities and then focussing on military seems like a better strat.
Short writeup, will do a more detailed one in the benchmarks thread:
Got forward settled by scotland twice. Forward settled them in return, then got the settler pantheon. After Ancestral Hall I spammed settlers forever. I went Dark age into Heroic which was amazing. Settled I think 16 or 17 cities (I think 22 in total, but please count if you want to, minimap is there!). I got these wonders in the following order: Pyramids, Angkor Wat, Mausoleum, missed Forbidden by 3 turns, Potala, Ruhr, Oxford, Big Ben, Amundsen. Focussed on science the majority of the game and should have put a little more into culture. Rome bonus is not enough to foregore theatre squares, especially after ~t120 culture went very slow. In the end though most things worked out pretty beautifully. I took out the scots clean, took out england clean, and took 3 korean cities and pillaged them in the late game. I think pillage wars are incredibly and can shave off 5-10 turns depending on the intensity.
You can also read my post here, where I settled 23 cities (iirc) peacefully without even being declared on (it is a large map though): Benchmarks Thread: Compare your T100 stats!
If you want you can try out the map, the t1 save is attached! It has room for probably settling 30 cities. It was my first time ever playing Greece and my third or fourth game in GS so you should have no problem getting to my benchmarks
I would recommend you to first try out the Early Empire rush strategy, because that way you get your cities out and online the fastest! If you feel comfortable with that you can use the ancestral hall strat.
On a related note, it seems I completely forgot to post about my Rome game here, what a shame! I will just copy paste my other post and add the T100 benchmarks:
I finished SV on Turn 184 with Rome. Not on Hall of Fame settings at all, just playing a game on my preferred ones.
Large map / 20 CS / one less enemy Civ / Standard Speed / Lakes (obviously cooked settings!)
Here you can see my T100 benchmark. Science and Culture is decent but not amazing. GPT is good. Faith and TR are abysmal!
I killed two AIs this game which is why I have so many cities but such bad relations. This was also an Ancestral Hall game.Victory screenshot (well, one turn before actually). I was very unlucky in almost every regard: unlucky with chops and having too little aluminum/not planning energy in my chop city, capital had abysmal production so I set up another space-port city, also of course the last hidden tech was the one I needed
couldve been a sub T17x victory for sure but oh well!the map seemed insane at first but turned out to be mostly okay. I could have settled like 30 cities here, but I think I would've finished slower. The land is not that good. So much free space, but I don't think it would've been worth it. Even some of my cities were just straight up bad, like they only had one or two good production tiles. I think I really pushed the boundary of how many cities you should settle in my last 2 games. Settling ~15 cities and then focussing on military seems like a better strat.
Short writeup, will do a more detailed one in the benchmarks thread:
Got forward settled by scotland twice. Forward settled them in return, then got the settler pantheon. After Ancestral Hall I spammed settlers forever. I went Dark age into Heroic which was amazing. Settled I think 16 or 17 cities (I think 22 in total, but please count if you want to, minimap is there!
). I got these wonders in the following order: Pyramids, Angkor Wat, Mausoleum, missed Forbidden by 3 turns, Potala, Ruhr, Oxford, Big Ben, Amundsen. Focussed on science the majority of the game and should have put a little more into culture. Rome bonus is not enough to foregore theatre squares, especially after ~t120 culture went very slow. In the end though most things worked out pretty beautifully. I took out the scots clean, took out england clean, and took 3 korean cities and pillaged them in the late game. I think pillage wars are incredibly and can shave off 5-10 turns depending on the intensity.
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i_imperator
Imperator
Incredible write up! And Thank you again for all the tips and advice. I've managed to use it effectively in my recent games. Even had a game as Alexander where I was able to use horses to wipe everybody and warlords throne after expanding from three initial cities!
What do you think is the best way to do this strategy with the Maya, focus on EE with them or expand with AH? I imagine because of their 6 tile rule EE first is more important. And what map settings? I've been thinking about doing a standard/large Pangaea with low sea, wet and new landmass for more production. I spent some time this week rolling starts with Maya and I notice they either get Plantation starts with jungle or low production plains starts (and occasionally an AI neighbour 10 tiles away) .
On the topic of governors I made a mistake in my most recent Mayan game where I went Reyna instead of Moksha. My faith output was actually quite good from conquering a neighbour who had focused on it and build some nice faith wonders. I think Moksha is cheaper than Reyna for buying districts (3k or so faith as opposed to 7.2k gold from Reyna), however the gold is easily acquired by using spies to steal from the AI. I think I slowed down my victory because of that by 40 turns or so. Lesson learnt and its something ill keep in mind for the future.
What do you think is the best way to do this strategy with the Maya, focus on EE with them or expand with AH? I imagine because of their 6 tile rule EE first is more important. And what map settings? I've been thinking about doing a standard/large Pangaea with low sea, wet and new landmass for more production. I spent some time this week rolling starts with Maya and I notice they either get Plantation starts with jungle or low production plains starts (and occasionally an AI neighbour 10 tiles away) .
On the topic of governors I made a mistake in my most recent Mayan game where I went Reyna instead of Moksha. My faith output was actually quite good from conquering a neighbour who had focused on it and build some nice faith wonders. I think Moksha is cheaper than Reyna for buying districts (3k or so faith as opposed to 7.2k gold from Reyna), however the gold is easily acquired by using spies to steal from the AI. I think I slowed down my victory because of that by 40 turns or so. Lesson learnt and its something ill keep in mind for the future.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I agree with your ideas regarding Maya. Ancestral Hall likely is not worth it since you won't be settling much more than 10 cities I assume. Maya also seems prime for early domination, which imho seems more effective than Ancestral Hall with Maya. Getting the settlers out earlier via EE rush seems to me the best idea. As for map settings, I would probably pick Pangea/Low Sea/One less AI. Unsure about wet, since jungles and forests do slow down Maya more than they slow down other Civs (because you need farms). But generally speaking more chops are almost always better.
I make that same mistake of Reyna instead of Moksha in many of my games, weird coincidence! Just in my recent game it cost me like 10 turns
Faith is really useless lategame, you almost never get to buy Great People with it. Lategame GS cost like 10,000 to 20,000 faith, that is just not worth it nor realistic. Maybe if you are playing Russia and get Oracle..
I think Reyna is for those games where you do not go Religion/Monumentality, or for those games where you get Big Ben. Moksha is for all intents and purposes better in most other scenarios.
One thing people forget about is that you can easily pillage like 800 faith off of a single Holy Site in the lategame, it's pretty intense. That is already 1/4 of your Spaceport cost right there!
I make that same mistake of Reyna instead of Moksha in many of my games, weird coincidence! Just in my recent game it cost me like 10 turns
Faith is really useless lategame, you almost never get to buy Great People with it. Lategame GS cost like 10,000 to 20,000 faith, that is just not worth it nor realistic. Maybe if you are playing Russia and get Oracle.. I think Reyna is for those games where you do not go Religion/Monumentality, or for those games where you get Big Ben. Moksha is for all intents and purposes better in most other scenarios.
One thing people forget about is that you can easily pillage like 800 faith off of a single Holy Site in the lategame, it's pretty intense. That is already 1/4 of your Spaceport cost right there!
Fluphen Azine
What is Fluphen Azine?
I just had too much going on in this game.
Playing as Poland.
Can't figure it out.
I was trying Relics with Reliquaries but I wasn't watching Kandy.
They got taken over by the Mali who has only 2 other cities.
I should of been protecting that City State as my Scouting is halted for 15 turns or so now.
I plan to liberate but I'm screwed lol.
Here are the screenshots.
I had something like 20+ cities planned out but I just blew it.
I think I had 11 cities at turn 100.
Darn Map is good if you like tons of space on Standard.
West...
East...
Playing as Poland.
Can't figure it out.
I was trying Relics with Reliquaries but I wasn't watching Kandy.
They got taken over by the Mali who has only 2 other cities.
I should of been protecting that City State as my Scouting is halted for 15 turns or so now.
I plan to liberate but I'm screwed lol.
Here are the screenshots.
I had something like 20+ cities planned out but I just blew it.
I think I had 11 cities at turn 100.
Darn Map is good if you like tons of space on Standard.
West...
East...
Mr. Shadows
Nomad of the time streams
I deliberately limited myself to 6 cities here, because I have a habit of over-expanding so I'm working on doing more with less. I'm not generally speaking very fast but I'm feeling good about how this is turning out for me. *Edit* This is Deity/Continents/Standard/Standard
Spoiler :
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yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
Looks good and a nice balance of science and culture, Merchant Republic is already in sight Any reasons you don't lock down the friendships? Are you going to conquer both Japan and Maori or do you just like having all the options available? I always struggle with making friendship or not, since it locks you out of conquest for a decent time.
Any reasons you don't lock down the friendships? Are you going to conquer both Japan and Maori or do you just like having all the options available? I always struggle with making friendship or not, since it locks you out of conquest for a decent time.
Mr. Shadows
Nomad of the time streams
Looks good and a nice balance of science and culture, Merchant Republic is already in sight
There were a couple of things I was sloppy on, and that bit of diplomacy is one of them. I locked down Alliances with both a couple turns later. Hojo I wasn't sure of because he hated me in the early game and our cities are competing for tiles in Argos, but he came around. I'm in Monarchy in that shot, and I probably should have skipped it and gone directly to Merchant Republic. I'm wishing I'd made it a point to get the Great Library, but then again then they banned Great Writers after I generated Homer so maybe that wouldn't have paid off quite so much. I'm on turn 118 now and I've met all but one of the other Civs. I need more trade routes...
Muskie
Warlord
How do you get the list of faith etc. below everyone's face in the top right. I've only played three games and it seems I have a lot to learn, but I think that would be useful, you must have to have diplomatic relations to get that right?
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
It's an option in the interface menu, I don't know what it is called specifically
You do not need diplo relations for that.
I think it's the HUD (Heads-Up Display).It's an option in the interface menu, I don't know what it is called specifically
sethryclaus
Chieftain
Just binged this fantastic thread Definitely nice to see what good is.
I stopped chopping after they patched overflows but it sounds like it's still super powerful. Going to get back into it and see how it changes my play.
What's the deal with the Amundsen stuff? It sounds like you're getting TS early because accumulating yields and that gets Amundsen?
Definitely nice to see what good is.I stopped chopping after they patched overflows but it sounds like it's still super powerful. Going to get back into it and see how it changes my play.
What's the deal with the Amundsen stuff? It sounds like you're getting TS early because accumulating yields and that gets Amundsen?
The Highwayman
King
Yes, culture is incredibly important for science games as it gets you to your governments and policies faster, as well as Amundsen Scott Research station at Rapid Deployment and then Globalization for the 5% per suzerain diplo card.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I think Amundsen is usually good but not always worth. Example: Amundsen is much, much stronger if your culture is mediocre, and even moreso if you can get it a few turns before your Moon Landing (even one or two turns matter). Amundsen will contribute to your Moon Landing culture, just like all other bonuses do. If you get Amundsen after Moon Landing, it is not that good (unless, again peak science is really hurting). Also, the later you build Amundsen in general the less use you get out of it. Contrary to wonders like Oxford or BB, which is actually better the later you build it. Oxford is theoretically best build either as early as possible, or as late as possible. I am not sure what you mean by TS, sorry Too many abbreviations in this game! 
The job of your Moon Landing bulb is to get you either to Globalization (if your culture is bad), or to T4 Government (if your culture is decent/good). The job of your science is to reduce every tech in the later part of the tree to either one or two turns. If you already have 3000 science per turn and all techs take one turn, there is no point in Amundsen. You are better off getting workers or projects. Your science is already bottlenecked. The same goes for culture. if you are already at T4 govt before Moon Landing, culture is completely useless. So this is an easy way to evaluate whether you want Amundsen:
1: Is my peak science high enough? If no, Amundsen becomes higher priority-
2: Is the Moon Landing culture boost needed? If no, Amundsen becomes lower priority-
3: Will Amundsen contribute to Moon Landing? If no, Amundsen becomes lower priority-
4: Is the game close to finished? If no, Amundsen becomes higher priority-
You can go through the questions in this order to determine if it is worth building. Your alternative is of course projects.
Too many abbreviations in this game! The job of your Moon Landing bulb is to get you either to Globalization (if your culture is bad), or to T4 Government (if your culture is decent/good). The job of your science is to reduce every tech in the later part of the tree to either one or two turns. If you already have 3000 science per turn and all techs take one turn, there is no point in Amundsen. You are better off getting workers or projects. Your science is already bottlenecked. The same goes for culture. if you are already at T4 govt before Moon Landing, culture is completely useless. So this is an easy way to evaluate whether you want Amundsen:
1: Is my peak science high enough? If no, Amundsen becomes higher priority-
2: Is the Moon Landing culture boost needed? If no, Amundsen becomes lower priority-
3: Will Amundsen contribute to Moon Landing? If no, Amundsen becomes lower priority-
4: Is the game close to finished? If no, Amundsen becomes higher priority-
You can go through the questions in this order to determine if it is worth building. Your alternative is of course projects.
sethryclaus
Chieftain
TS = Theatre Square. I'm trying to learn the acronyms myself - some posts are pretty interpretive
Thanks! Those are both super clear explanations; I appreciate it.
I've also been building Pyramids and Kilwa but not rushing them, which seems to be something I should've been prioritising. Going to try roiding up my capital for Oracle too.
Thanks! Those are both super clear explanations; I appreciate it.
I've also been building Pyramids and Kilwa but not rushing them, which seems to be something I should've been prioritising. Going to try roiding up my capital for Oracle too.
This is my current game, the first game at Deity level where I think I may have a chance of winning. I've played to T165 currently, and retrieved a save from around T100 to contribute to this thread.
I'm trying to follow the strategy from Gamergramps on YouTube with the religious science victory speedrun, and also watching the Chinese player that Gamergramps based his run on, to try and learn how to take on Deity. (I've won a few games on Emperor) Definitely have a lot to learn, and have learned a lot already from the threads here.
It is a Standard sized Pangaea map, on Deity difficulty, with extra City States and World Age set to New.
At this point I've met all players except Shaka. Catherine and Saladin were already at war when I first met them, which helped me a lot. Pericles taking suzerainity of lots of CS, and declaring Surprise War on me, made things more challenging, but I got Scotland and Saladin to join the war and fought him off. Unfortunately I missed out on Oracle, Kilwa, and Forbidden Palace
Bunch of units sitting in the space between me and Arabia are there to prevent AI from settling there, and I do settle there eventually, waited for the era to turn to make sure I didn't fall into a Dark Age, because it would be at high risk of flipping otherwise.
My not very experienced (~300h on Civ6 and ~250 hours Civ5) gut feel is that I'm not going to get a Science Victory before T200, but I'm still going to try and win as fast as I can.
Edit/Update: Won at T250. Seems long compared to what I've read on this forum, but it's my first Deity win, and the fastest I've managed a science victory on any difficulty, so quite happy about that.
I'm trying to follow the strategy from Gamergramps on YouTube with the religious science victory speedrun, and also watching the Chinese player that Gamergramps based his run on, to try and learn how to take on Deity. (I've won a few games on Emperor) Definitely have a lot to learn, and have learned a lot already from the threads here.
It is a Standard sized Pangaea map, on Deity difficulty, with extra City States and World Age set to New.
At this point I've met all players except Shaka. Catherine and Saladin were already at war when I first met them, which helped me a lot. Pericles taking suzerainity of lots of CS, and declaring Surprise War on me, made things more challenging, but I got Scotland and Saladin to join the war and fought him off. Unfortunately I missed out on Oracle, Kilwa, and Forbidden Palace
Bunch of units sitting in the space between me and Arabia are there to prevent AI from settling there, and I do settle there eventually, waited for the era to turn to make sure I didn't fall into a Dark Age, because it would be at high risk of flipping otherwise.
My not very experienced (~300h on Civ6 and ~250 hours Civ5) gut feel is that I'm not going to get a Science Victory before T200, but I'm still going to try and win as fast as I can.
Edit/Update: Won at T250. Seems long compared to what I've read on this forum, but it's my first Deity win, and the fastest I've managed a science victory on any difficulty, so quite happy about that.
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Looking for some advice on this one.
Standard sized Fractal map, standard speed, Deity difficulty.
Was trying for the religious science victory again, to get some practice with the strategy.
Was happy to roll Germany, as apparently they're strong for science victories, I guess with the Hansa being cheaper, and having an extra policy slot is always welcome.
Thought I was picking OK spots for cities, but found myself getting boxed in by AI. Having a relatively weak military, I worked on getting friendships in order to not die. They're mostly at war with each other now.
Not going well with CSes or wonders, with Alexander having already 7 in Kumasi and Matthias took Bologna from me and now I need 8 more envoys to catch him.
Big problem is having no strategics - first no horses, then no iron. Hope I don't find myself with no niter as well
Thinking I probably need to attack Kumasi or Bologna, or both, at some point, make use of that combat bonus vs city-states, and get more space.
Any tips on managing Deity without having DF or strategics to sell to the AI?
Standard sized Fractal map, standard speed, Deity difficulty.
Was trying for the religious science victory again, to get some practice with the strategy.
Was happy to roll Germany, as apparently they're strong for science victories, I guess with the Hansa being cheaper, and having an extra policy slot is always welcome.
Thought I was picking OK spots for cities, but found myself getting boxed in by AI. Having a relatively weak military, I worked on getting friendships in order to not die. They're mostly at war with each other now.
Not going well with CSes or wonders, with Alexander having already 7 in Kumasi and Matthias took Bologna from me and now I need 8 more envoys to catch him.
Big problem is having no strategics - first no horses, then no iron. Hope I don't find myself with no niter as well
Thinking I probably need to attack Kumasi or Bologna, or both, at some point, make use of that combat bonus vs city-states, and get more space.
Any tips on managing Deity without having DF or strategics to sell to the AI?
You can generate alot of gold for selling luxuries to the AI.
Get your spies asap to start stealing gold. Since the AI gets huge bonusses to gold generation you can steal quite alot most of the time.
Get your Hansa+Commercial Hub clusters up to raise production and unlock more trade routes. Do alot of international trade for gold. Since you will have lots of markets in order to unlock more trade routes you can consider sending 3 envoys to any commercial city state.
You can also look at your policy cards and maybe optimize those for gold.
If you are going for a war consider attacking that red guy south of Kumasi. I guess it is Alexander? You are already ahead of him in science and will soon be able to produce modern units with high production Hansas and the right cards quite quickly. If you are unlucky with niter you might buy some strategics from other civs (remember to buy one more than you actually need for your units so you can heal).
Anyway your postion lokes quite ok as far as I can tell. You managed to catch up with most AIs already.
Get your spies asap to start stealing gold. Since the AI gets huge bonusses to gold generation you can steal quite alot most of the time.
Get your Hansa+Commercial Hub clusters up to raise production and unlock more trade routes. Do alot of international trade for gold. Since you will have lots of markets in order to unlock more trade routes you can consider sending 3 envoys to any commercial city state.
You can also look at your policy cards and maybe optimize those for gold.
If you are going for a war consider attacking that red guy south of Kumasi. I guess it is Alexander? You are already ahead of him in science and will soon be able to produce modern units with high production Hansas and the right cards quite quickly. If you are unlucky with niter you might buy some strategics from other civs (remember to buy one more than you actually need for your units so you can heal).
Anyway your postion lokes quite ok as far as I can tell. You managed to catch up with most AIs already.
