[GS] Benchmarks Thread: Compare your T100 stats!

[Victoria]

Are you saying that you should focus on chopping everything out by turn 100 with 7 cities up and running?

No, it’s a guide... I get to T70 and see how many cities I have through any means. If I see 7 I know I am doing well, if I see 5 I may have been attacked early or other slow up, no big deal but I do know Enough to be able to make phase 2 decisions including just what type of victory would be fun.
I tend not to move him around right unless I play very slowly which I hate doing. Most efficiently you move Magnus every 5 turns with a few workers... too much for me but 7/70 means I do not really have to either.

just not sure why you would not war and move Magnus, you have 2 hands after all. Maybe I misread you, apologies if I have.

warmongering is for the lazy as well as the efficient. Just kill and win. I quite like to keep grievances down, that’s my target, it feels more real life for me. So war surgically.

 

[ATEX]

I have a fun concept Im trying out now. A fast science victory driven by very early gaining faith to expand early through Earth Godess and Peters wooden tundras. I Guess this is nothing original, but I got the idea that it could be fun after watching Gamergrampz trying rouge.stars faith driven science game. I figured With the right map I could gain much faster faith through Earth Godess, and use all the extra tiles Peter gets to chop infrastructure.

I had to re-roll some times before I got this map, but I think it is a good one. 3 Cultural CS, two Scientific. Nice neigbours and loads of Space to expand. Got 17 cities at turn 100 and lots of Space to continue.

Standard speed, All standard settings, Random AIs, Lakes template.

I dont know how good the 100 stats are, but 116 I think is quite strong from my understanding. At least very fun 16 turns! =) My problem now is how to finish this, as I dont really have the skills for the later stages of the game, but sub 190 should be doable I think at least.

 

[Victoria]

Fantastic T100 stats @ATEX
Yes, finishing an SVtakes practice.
Get to rocketry and launch the moon landing project to get 10x science as a one off culture boost toward globalization where ISS gives you +5% science per suzerain.
You are well on your way, great culture too.... good CS make all the difference

 

[ATEX]

Thanks for the advice Victoria. Would you reccomend Research labs? I dont know if I need more than 700ish science before ISS. And is it to early to start the research grants now? For the smaller cities at least I dont really feel that there is more stuff to build now...

 

[Fluphen Azine]

No, it’s a guide... I get to T70 and see how many cities I have through any means. If I see 7 I know I am doing well, if I see 5 I may have been attacked early or other slow up, no big deal but I do know Enough to be able to make phase 2 decisions including just what type of victory would be fun.
I tend not to move him around right unless I play very slowly which I hate doing. Most efficiently you move Magnus every 5 turns with a few workers... too much for me but 7/70 means I do not really have to either.

just not sure why you would not war and move Magnus, you have 2 hands after all. Maybe I misread you, apologies if I have.

warmongering is for the lazy as well as the efficient. Just kill and win. I quite like to keep grievances down, that’s my target, it feels more real life for me. So war surgically.

I wasn't being critical at all.
I was just curious about the strategy.
I'm just not very good at moving Governors around.
I need to get better at that and as the game goes on I tend to get lazy with chopping in general.
I find the nuances difficult where you wait till one turn left, chop with the right policy card in... etc etc.
The game seems to require 8 hands instead of 2 at times.
It's a lot to remember for me and I'm just not very good at planning.
I do like Kill and Win though.

 

[The Highwayman]

@ATEX Those are god like T116 stats, especially on an all standard settings deity map. As long as you focus on eurekas and inspirations as to not waste your science and culture, sub 200 should be a gimme. I can tell you have with the heavy chariots, muskets, and catapults .

I find powered research labs to be very good - 16 science per city (provided you've satisfied the rationalism conditions) is no joke. In my Dido game I posted earlier in this thread, I didn't have anywhere near 600 spt at T116 and I finished at T201 (Deity/all standard). You look like you're in great shape for sub T190. Do you have a chop city set up for the spaceports?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

No, it’s a guide... I get to T70 and see how many cities I have through any means. If I see 7 I know I am doing well, if I see 5 I may have been attacked early or other slow up, no big deal but I do know Enough to be able to make phase 2 decisions including just what type of victory would be fun.
I tend not to move him around right unless I play very slowly which I hate doing. Most efficiently you move Magnus every 5 turns with a few workers... too much for me but 7/70 means I do not really have to either.

just not sure why you would not war and move Magnus, you have 2 hands after all. Maybe I misread you, apologies if I have.

warmongering is for the lazy as well as the efficient. Just kill and win. I quite like to keep grievances down, that’s my target, it feels more real life for me. So war surgically.

So if you have 7 cities by T70 do you usually not build AH, or settle a lot of city before AH? Interesting about not moving Magnus, recently I have focussed on moving him every 5 turns with mixed results.

 

[Victoria]

So if you have 7 cities by T70 do you usually not build AH, or settle a lot of city before AH?

I often build 5 cities and take 2, 4 cities and 3 and sopmetimes 3 and take 4 (but for my style of play that takes 2 angry neighbours.
Build a few slings and play 'bait your neighbour', you get quite good at it after a while. You know what civs will take little encouragement (inca for example) and others that are not so simple (Russia) I also play to not get more than 100 grievances which can make it tough. ... so with this approach why should I bother with AH? Sometimes I will then build it but I quite like warlords but there is nothing wrong with taking Ah later. It is a questionj of where you are going to do what.

recently I have focussed on moving him every 5 turns with mixed results

To me it is a finer point, it is pointless to send him on tour if the sites are not worth a look but normally they are... I just struggle with the builders and things like research labs mess with my head a bit still. I have gotten past doing things right for gameplay and instead play right for me.

 

[ATEX]

@ATEX Those are god like T116 stats, especially on an all standard settings deity map. As long as you focus on eurekas and inspirations as to not waste your science and culture, sub 200 should be a gimme. I can tell you have with the heavy chariots, muskets, and catapults .

I find powered research labs to be very good - 16 science per city (provided you've satisfied the rationalism conditions) is no joke. In my Dido game I posted earlier in this thread, I didn't have anywhere near 600 spt at T116 and I finished at T201 (Deity/all standard). You look like you're in great shape for sub T190. Do you have a chop city set up for the spaceports?

I have chopped heavily everywhere except 2 first cities and a dedicated chop city which Im about to settle. Since the strat is built around tundra Woods giving faith, I have left the two first cities 10 and 11 Woods. Chop city has 13 if I buy all the tiles) I have not decided if I go for 1 early spaceport, then two later, or if 2 is enough.

My problem With Research labs is that they might come in to late to matter. That was my initial thought at least, so I did not leave any chop for them. Now I will need to hard build… I think it all boils Down to how long the game lasts after the first spaceport. I think I can Place it before turn 140, but do I have 50 turns left or 30?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

How did you get 17 cities in 100 turns? Thats something like 1 city each 6 turns on average. Consider also all infrastructure you have while having so many cities.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I often build 5 cities and take 2, 4 cities and 3 and sopmetimes 3 and take 4 (but for my style of play that takes 2 angry neighbours.
Build a few slings and play 'bait your neighbour', you get quite good at it after a while. You know what civs will take little encouragement (inca for example) and others that are not so simple (Russia) I also play to not get more than 100 grievances which can make it tough. ... so with this approach why should I bother with AH? Sometimes I will then build it but I quite like warlords but there is nothing wrong with taking Ah later. It is a questionj of where you are going to do what.

To me it is a finer point, it is pointless to send him on tour if the sites are not worth a look but normally they are... I just struggle with the builders and things like research labs mess with my head a bit still. I have gotten past doing things right for gameplay and instead play right for me.

Idk, I think moving Magnus might actually not be worth it if you only have 2 chops. If you have 3 chops, I am still unsure if it's worth it. With 4 or more chops you are essentially making 4 chops into 6 so a Magnus tour is indeed worth. I think Magnus can sometimes be a trap. Waiting 5 turns before chopping 2 jungle tiles just for that extra effectiveness might actually be worse than getting that city online 5 turns earlier. Similiar to @Archon_Wing saying AH is a trap, because the circumstances aren't always right, I feel like people can fall into the trap of optimizing too much around Magnus.

How did you get 17 cities in 100 turns? Thats something like 1 city each 6 turns on average. Consider also all infrastructure you have while having so many cities.

You can look at my posts in this thread, I have more than 20 cities in every T100 screenshot and I do a write-up of how I manage that. I have gotten Pyramids and most Eurekahs in those games so infrastructure is not all that lacking. However my T100 science/culture with 20 cities is usually a lot worse than other people's culture/science with only 10-15 cities, because obviously I put a lot of hammers into settlers instead of developing cities.

A good example was the Russia game where I had to settle really aggressively into -15 loyalty territory in order to establish borders. as soon as I forward settled the AI 4 times I had enough space for 20 cities (peaceful expansion).

I have chopped heavily everywhere except 2 first cities and a dedicated chop city which Im about to settle. Since the strat is built around tundra Woods giving faith, I have left the two first cities 10 and 11 Woods. Chop city has 13 if I buy all the tiles) I have not decided if I go for 1 early spaceport, then two later, or if 2 is enough.

My problem With Research labs is that they might come in to late to matter. That was my initial thought at least, so I did not leave any chop for them. Now I will need to hard build… I think it all boils Down to how long the game lasts after the first spaceport. I think I can Place it before turn 140, but do I have 50 turns left or 30?

I almost never chop labs, but I do not think they come online too late. I usually only run projects when I start building the moon landing. Might not be optimal, but it's what I do. If you do not build Labs you sometimes lack peak science, which means you will not be able to research all the super-late techs in one turn. Getting every single tech in one turn (via overflow and ~2000 peak science!) is mandatory for a fast win. Optimizing science before the moon landing bonus is also imperative. Sometimes you even want to delay your moon-landing for Amundsen-Scott, or, even better, getting Globalization because your culture was naturally that good (only happened to me once).

Labs are now so much better than in vanilla, where it was never worth building labs. T4 govt powers every single city, which makes them twice as good! Don't forget that.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

IYou can look at my posts in this thread, I have more than 20 cities in every T100 screenshot and I do a write-up of how I manage that. I have gotten Pyramids and most Eurekahs in those games so infrastructure is not all that lacking. However my T100 science/culture with 20 cities is usually a lot worse than other people's culture/science with only 10-15 cities, because obviously I put a lot of hammers into settlers instead of developing cities.

This brings up a good question.
If you are not going to play domination is it more optimal to stop at a certain amount of cities?
I do believe that I oversettle most of my games.
Does oversettling cause a player to finish slower?

 

[The Highwayman]

@yung.carl.jung when you settle -15 loyalty, does your initial builder you spawn from the city immediately harvest food/jungle to battle the loyalty?

 

[ATEX]

How did you get 17 cities in 100 turns? Thats something like 1 city each 6 turns on average. Consider also all infrastructure you have while having so many cities.

There are ofc several factors that decides how fast you can expand. Space is the most important. For this game I have amazing faith gains very early, so I can buy a lot of settlers, use free Builder to chop infrastructure and improve lux to sell off. I dont think the hardest parts is getting the cities, but figuring out the infrastructure takes a lot of planning. At least when you bring Holy sites into the Picture.

I dont know what is the optimal time to stop settling. If there is such a time at all. I just figure if there are 6+ Chops and you have faith to spare why not just settle another city and chop something. (With the extra tiles you get as russia at least)

 

[Victoria]

I feel like people can fall into the trap of optimizing too much around Magnus.

If you are using provision or another Magnus factor then perhaps touring has competition but there is a period when touring just works. I look at finished games of the fastest players and find nothing I harvested and no mines. As Magnus applies 50% to the base before modifiers he is more than 50% and it is hard to not appreciate that.

I just figure if there are 6+ Chops and you have faith to spare why not just settle another city and chop something

100%

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@yung.carl.jung when you settle -15 loyalty, does your initial builder you spawn from the city immediately harvest food/jungle to battle the loyalty?

yeah pretty much. but often the city hits 2 pop naturally and then all the loyalty pressure is gone. golden age first also helps! I also tend to settle so that cities support each other with loyalty. sometimes the cities next to my capital are the last ones I settle

As Magnus applies 50% to the base before modifiers he is more than 50% and it is hard to not appreciate that.
100%

Wasn't aware, this is a gamechanger. Makes Magnus even more insane. So, if I understand it right, while almost all other modifiers are additive, Magnus is actually multiplicative? Freaking insane.

No matter you get so much out of your chops with Magnus plus Hong Kong plus T4 Government plus +15% from the Space Race card.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

@yung.carl.jung I think you forgot to mention you play on large and huge maps.
Are you peacefully getting up 20 cities consistently by turn 100 on Standard Sized Maps?
I am currently in this Standard Game playing as England, going a bit slow.
Tough to get 20 cities on this map with this problematic land!!
I'm doing horrible this game!
Seen my first Solar Flare but it didn't cause me any damage.

Spoiler England Turn 91 :

 

[Victoria]

Magnus is actually multiplicative?

Depends on what you mean. Basically I am building a wonder and have autocracy for 10% and wonder card for 15%
If a chop is worth 50 without Magnus you would get 50 +25% of 50.
With Magnus the 50% is applied to base so it is 75 +25% of 75

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@yung.carl.jung I think you forgot to mention you play on large and huge maps.
Are you peacefully getting up 20 cities consistently by turn 100 on Standard Sized Maps?

Spoiler England Turn 91 :

View attachment 557435

Not really, I actually mostly play standard size maps! Large are just my favorite maps, they're much more fun. I have never played huge, at least not yet. My last game was Korea on standard where I had 15 cities by T100 plus 3 settlers already walking. I did however have to eliminate 1 neighbor and get 3 cities for him. So roughly 18 cities total.

But don't sweat it! 20 cities is not possible on all maps, simply enough. 20 cities peaceful is impossible on most standard maps. (but if you're playing peaceful REX, why even play standard in the first place? seems like you're crippling yourself, standard maps are super cramped )

I also do not think that 20 cities is always optimal. Really depends on how good your land is.

Consider for example that @KKirrin screenshot where he gets 800 culture per turn.

He has "only" 14 cities (still a lot!) but is doing better in virtually every other metric than all of my screenshots. I have more than 20 cities in that Russia screenshot, but he has 10x my culture. That's no coincidence. If your core lands are really good, but far away land is mediocre, it is probably best to concentrate on 10-15 cities and develop them ASAP, instead of expanding rapidly. Many strategies can win to sub 200 wins, having 20 cities is not necessary nor is it the fastest way I think. I just wanted to show that it was possible.

My record by the way was 28 cities on T100 with vanilla Sumeria. Even in that game I played sloppily. I think I got a total of 5 Settlers from AI and conquered more than 10 cities already. I had close to 40 cities when I went to space

 

[Victoria]

I also do not think that 20 cities is always optimal.

Optimal is a moving rule based on maps and other civs actions but having played with 85+ cities while going for a score victory I now no longer want to play with more than 15. The best anti ICS mechanic for me is the sheer boredom of management.
In fact I no longer hanker after shorter times, I look for variety, difference, anything that will make the game not feel like the last.
I have been playing a lot of tilted axis lately because it does shake things up,