Best ancient greek tragic playwriter?

[Kyriakos]

I sadly have only read one work from each of the three:

Euripedes, The Bacchai

Aeschylos, Prometheus bound

Sophocles, Oedipus

All three works are incredible, imo. Certainly all three are part of the classics of literature, and probably those are the most acclaimed/known works by each of the authors as well...

So, citizens gathered at the agora of Cfcia "of the high choruses and dense dogpiling" ( ), i put the question to you: Which of those three is the greatest? ^^

Imho, Oedipus by Sophocles is even more towering than the other two. I'd rank Prometheus bound higher than the Bacchai, so imo Sophocles>Aeschylos>Euripedes. All three are beyond just great, of course.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Euripides, far and away.

Though Oedipus the King is admittedly a perfectly designed drama.

 

[Kyriakos]

^Which plays by Euripides have you read, and why did you choose him? ^^

I read the Bacchai a LONG while ago (actually for a course in university...), but i recall it featured the only clear-cut case of hybris (or rather the one with less complications), in that king Pentheas does attack the god Dionysus, BUT he does so because he wants to be faithful to the god Apollo, and argues that Dionysus comes from Asia and is reckless.
Of course this leads to a very terrible ending...

By contrast, in Oedipus, we see an interesting variation: Oedipus (and his wife/mother, Iocaste) WANTS so much to believe that the Oracles were wrong, so he attacks the oracles (not the gods). It is clear he does so not from position of strength (albeit in the start of the play he attacks Teiresias the prophet from still some position of strength). So it seems to be more of a hubris by proxy. Besides, Zeus planned the worst fate for Oedipus...

In Prometheus, the titan Prometheus still scoffs at Zeus and calls him a tyrant. That play's ending is the definition of a climax...

 

[warpus]

This is actually interesting to me, because during the wednesday night trivia I attend there is often 1 or 2 ancient Greek questions thrown in for good measure. Sometimes it's about heroes, sometimes it's about poets, and Oedipus came up more than once over the last year and a half that I've been on this team. But most times such a question comes up we are stumped and have to guess, so I've been trying to teach myself a bit. I started with the Gods, but playwrights is a good bit of trivia to know. What do each of these three guys specialize in?

 

[Synobun]

J.J. Abrams wins, I think.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

@Kyriakos: They all look utterly *shudder* charming.

No, I haven't read any of them. A quick glance at my bookshelf reveals that I have a paperback copy of Sophocles' The Theban Plays.

J.J. Abrams wins, I think.

NuTrek was a tragic waste of my time to watch.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is actually interesting to me, because during the wednesday night trivia I attend there is often 1 or 2 ancient Greek questions thrown in for good measure. Sometimes it's about heroes, sometimes it's about poets, and Oedipus came up more than once over the last year and a half that I've been on this team. But most times such a question comes up we are stumped and have to guess, so I've been trying to teach myself a bit. I started with the Gods, but playwrights is a good bit of trivia to know. What do each of these three guys specialize in?

You can have a look online, the plays are actually brief and i think you may like them Eg (in english, just 23 pages, Oedipus) :

http://abs.kafkas.edu.tr/upload/225/Oedipus_the_King_Full_Text.pdf

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I expected you to have read more of the tragedies Personally I have read Aeschylus' Birds, Sophocles' tragedies (most of them) and parts of Homer's work. Though to be honest I prefer seeing them performed instead of reading the plays, they were written for performance after all. Sophocles was a delight for me. Also just as a snide remark: Goethe's Prometheus was best Prometheus

This is actually interesting to me, because during the wednesday night trivia I attend there is often 1 or 2 ancient Greek questions thrown in for good measure. Sometimes it's about heroes, sometimes it's about poets, and Oedipus came up more than once over the last year and a half that I've been on this team. But most times such a question comes up we are stumped and have to guess, so I've been trying to teach myself a bit. I started with the Gods, but playwrights is a good bit of trivia to know. What do each of these three guys specialize in?

Edith Hamilton's book on mythology is a seminal read that answers almost all the basic questions, not just about mythology, but also about the famous authors. It's well-written and easy to digest and goes right back to the primary sources. Highly recommended for smart-assing about ancient Greece.

 

[Kyriakos]

I doubt Prometheus can be improved, even by Goethe ^^

 

[Lexicus]

I have read Oedipus and Antigone by Sophocles, Agamemnon and The Libation Bearers by Aeschylus, and I've never read anything by Euripides but I voted for him anyway due to the reputation of the Medea.

 

[warpus]

I was just hoping to memorize the main names and not delve into the details all that much. But I suppose that's kind of short-attention-span of me. Either way though, a cheet sheet would be awesome, if one exists

 

[Gori the Grey]

The cliche (but it's true the way cliches are) is the Euripides is the most "modern" of the three. A lot of gender stuff, for instance.

So, if you've read Bacchae, Kyr, Medea might be the next one to go on to. (I'm with y.c.j in finding it surprising that you haven't read more of them.)

I don't know how it is that we're not seeing a thousand stagings of Hippolytus since it's about, get this, a woman falsely accusing a man of improper sexual advances (and that's only half the fun of the play)! If you liked the dishonor-Bacchus-to honor-Apollo-theme in the Bacchae (damned if you do damned if you don't), you get something just like that again in Hippolytus.

Your next Aeschylus should be Agamemnon, then Libation Bearers (Coepheroe). You can skip Eumenides. If you were an Athenian, I'd have you read it.

But then having read the Libation Bearers, go back to Euripides and read his reboot: Electra.

Antigone should be your next Sophocles.

@warpus: there's a website, Theoi.com, that you can poke around in and take in details at whatever level of depth you would like. They give brief synopses, but then very full treatments of each myth (including the variants) as well.

 

[Kyriakos]

^I plan to read more
It is true that up to now the ancient greek writers i read are not many, namely (i think, not counting stuff read for/in school) :

-Homer, Hesiod, Plato/Socrates, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Embedocles, Parmenides/Zeno, Democritos and some other ancient philosophers, some history (Herodotos mostly, also some Xenophon), Euripides, Aeschylos, Sophocles, Lucianos of Samosata. Then only the odd work or part of work by very few others, eg Lucian of Apulia (hm, maybe he wrote in latin, not sure), and some math works, eg Apollonios of Tyana, Archimedes (the palimpsest) and some Euclid and Eratosthenes.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You're fairly widely read; the tragedians are just an odd lacuna.

But you got some of your life left to go, so . . . it's always good to have a reading list.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

But you got some of your life left to go, so . . . it's always good to have a reading list.

I find myself making lists of which list to go through next. I have a whole bookmark that just lists lists with movies. Lists are dangerous. I once spent an entire day making a collage of my favorite album covers.

 

[Hrothbern]

But you got some of your life left to go, so . . . it's always good to have a reading list.

True
but (a little but),

So there was this moment, some time ago, that I estimated to be the moment that I would not be able to read all the books again, that I ever did read.....
IF.... If I would read at the same speed, but my eyes (retina quality) is ageing ofc

Many of those books such close companions and worth re-reading offering new insights because I changed over time (perhaps developed but that is another thread)
And then all the books that some relative, a close friend, an article say about: "you really should read it...."
The research reading I do, and need to do, for a book I am writing...
The books I read, and need to read, to get out and stay out of my comfort zone
My current backlog is about 2 meters.... perhaps not even bad
But I do get more and more critical about what to read



And talking about Greek playwrights
Of one of them I remember the essence, but forgot the play and the playwright
Who can help ?

It is about the development of the concept of "remorse and forgive" in ancient Greece
Perhaps influenced by some sophist thinking

There is a man who commits a murder and is subsequently trialled
At the court this man argues:
"you cannot condemn "me" for murder, because "I" am no longer the person who committed that murder, because "I" am now a completely changed person, because of that murder, and no longer the same person, who commited that muder"
"the only thing he and I share is our common past before the murder".
"But I, the "I" I have become, would never commit that murder.... so how can you punish me, the "me" I have become ?".

 

[Kyriakos]

If Athena was present, it would be Orestes ^^

(don't know)

 

[innonimatu]

Antigona is a favorite of mine, because it was the first greek tragedy I saw live. And it is a great play.

 

[Kyriakos]

So, if you've read Bacchae, Kyr, Medea might be the next one to go on to.

I read it today.
Hm, i cannot say i found it to be of the same high (as in extremely incredibly high) quality of (let's say) Oedipus...

The ending sentence is excellent, of course.

καὶ τὰ δοκηθέντ᾽ οὐκ ἐτελέσθη, τῶν δ᾽ ἀδοκήτων πόρον ηὗρε θεός[...]

("And what we were expecting did not happen, while what we never imagined god found a way to bring about")



I agree about the gender-focus. It's been 20 years (!) since i read the Bacchai, in the first year of university, for a course. I did not recall that Euripedes was the ancient greek Chechov in that respect (Chechov recieved his main education in a greek school in Crimea, iirc).

I also sort of liked the sniping between Medea and Jason (of Argonaut fame), about Medea being a barbarian (from Colchis), and Jason being base as a man, and Medea being a woman and thus already a bane, and Medea saying that while humans can discern fakeness of gold, there is no clear sign of a bad man/husband
Overall, though, i didn't like this play. I also detest that swedish playwriter, and Mrs Julie-type exchanges, even when they are attic theatre...

It seems clear that Euripides wrote far more about sexual themes and man/woman relations than the other two. But imo the Medea is not really able to stand its own ground next to something like Prometheus or Oedipus, and from memory it isn't that impressive next to the Bacchai (despite the murderous female- and child-murderer as well, albeit taken over by Bacchus- there too).

I wonder what Aristophanes commented on the issue of females in Euripides' plays, in his own play about the three tragic poets. Anyone know/recall?

 

[Hrothbern]

I wonder what Aristophanes commented on the issue of females in Euripides' plays, in his own play about the three tragic poets. Anyone know/recall?

IDK
But he does not have a high regard for women, although he did write that comedy where women denied sex to their husbands if they did not stop the Peloponnesian war.