Best BNW Civ For Expansion (I Love City Sprawl)

[JohnYoga]

Hello Folks,

I read somewhere that city sprawl has its research "bonus" nerfed a bit. But, is there a Civ that would be best for those of us that love to city sprawl? Also, I play MP, and we start at the Medieval era; therefore, the desired Civ would need to be optimized for city sprawling from the Medieval era, on wards.

Thank you for any guidance!

Regards,

Marc

 

[Kintara]

Perhaps Persia would be a decent start? Satrap's Court should help you to spam (pretty much the same as Vanilla). Egypt has Burial Tombs, which are a good source of Happiness. The Maya can still benefit from Pyramid spam. Arabia should (still) do well on a Medieval start. The Shoshone would be the obvious expansion choice, though. They get plenty of land with each city, and get a bonus to defend it.

Hmm, Medieval. There's probably some sort of policy based cheesy goodness that hasn't occurred to me. I haven't played around with the advanced starts yet, though.

Anyway, I like the Happiness bonuses a little more now in the new environment, and I tend to push for religion a little more. I had some success going wide with Egypt, and taking advantage of the Reformation belief Religious Sites. It's a good bonus for a wide builder. In that vein, the Byzantines should be excellent with lots of religious buildings to build. Starting in the Medieval era means that there are more ways to start generating tourism and less time to build up a religion.

 

[JohnYoga]

Thank you, Kintara, for your recommendations. I have printed them out.

The Liberty Policy states that it is good for those desiring large empires. I guess the Commerce Policy would be helpful, too, as you gain more gold through trade, etc.

Regards,

Marc

 

[Kintara]

Thanks. I'll be interested to hear how the advanced start works out. Anyway, in BNW there is a bit of a science penalty when you build out, but the culture penalty is reduced. So if you really go nuts with the city spam, then pay attention to your science output as you drop those cities. I like religion and wide ICS empires because spreading that religion can be so easy and fruitful. Another good Reformation Belief that stands out is Jesuit Education. If you have lots of faith rolling in, you should be able to mass buy lots of science buildings. Actually, I think that one should scale a bit better from the Medieval era.

Do you like city states? Siam might be an interesting one to try out. Take Jesuit education and buy Wats for yourself. Just pay attention to your gold output, and remember that Rationalism and Piety go well together now.

 

[MantaRevan]

Maya I think. Unless their UB has been downgraded, it provides flat bonuses to faith and culture right off the bat. Plus with piety available so early, this means Pacal can get his half-priced Opyramids out in new cities in half the time/

 

[Monthar]

The Mayan pyramid is still 2 2, so that added science should compensate for the per city science penalty.

 

[Kintara]

The Maya definitely don't lose anything in the expansion. Like Persia, they might not be as fun due to the UU being obsolete. Also, the Maya UA might be put at a disadvantage in a later start. Still, that Pyramid is really just that good.

 

[JohnYoga]

Folks,

Maya would be the ideal civ, even though we (I do MP-coop) start at the Medieval era?

Thanks for your help!

Regards,

Marc

 

[OmniPotent42]

Venice, definitely.

Spoiler :

I lied.

 

[Kintara]

I don't want to say for sure about who is the most powerful, as it would seem presumptuous (especially considering it's still launch day where I am). The Shoshone abilities should work great in the Medieval Era, for instance. The only Happiness bonus comes from having extra tiles to improve, but...extra tiles!!! And the Comanche should be great fun to build towards, given a Medieval start. And a defensive bonus is great to keep the land you take.

I mean I could recommend a lot of civs, though. Even if I were to talk about G&K or something. People have so many different strengths and the civs are varied enough to cater to them. Also, what map you choose matters. Indonesia or Polynesia or Morocco might be dominant with certain maps.

 

[JohnYoga]

Thanks, Kintara.

We play Continents, either Large, Huge, and now it looks like we can MP Earth, Large or Huge.

Regards,

Marc

 

[Kintara]

I haven't tried Indonesia, but Continents certainly doesn't knock them out of contention. I favor Lakes maps sometimes, so.... Kind of outta luck there. Indonesia is a bit risky with a truncated timetable if you roll an inland start on the big continent and are surrounded or hemmed in. I'm mostly mentioning them because I haven't tried them and now I'm getting intrigued. Anyway, the Spice Islanders trait gives them lots of Happiness to work with, if they can make it happen. If you roll Iron nearby then spam those Kris Swordsmen. The Candi is interesting. It seems a bit tricky to manage, just like the rest of the civ.

It's one of those things, sort of a risk to reward sort of thing. You looking for a sure thing/safe bet?

 

[peddroelm]

No maintence temple religion monsters Egypt / Songhai (piety) ..

 

[JohnYoga]

Hello,

OK, I summarize that for those that enjoy expansive empires and when starting at the Medieval era for large (continent) maps, the following civilizations would be optimal:

Shoshone*
Maya
Egypt
Arabia
Indonesia
Persia
Songhai

*With the Shoshone the most optimal...

I hope I have that right.

What I am thinking about here is that those Civs that have early era UUs, will not benefit me as much as those which have later game UUs, or unique abilities that don't care about the era (e.g. The Shoshone's tile expansion).

Thank you for those who have written-in and gave me guidance.

Regards,

Marc

 

[Securion]

Egypt gives you two happy (Burial Tombs) very quickly in newly settled cities, and Celts give you three happy (Ceilidh Halls) a little bit later. So those two civs makes sure you can keep building cities even though you might not have that many good spots (no unique luxes).

Rome is an obvious one, since you can quickly get new cities up and running, but can run into happiness problems early (you need good spots).
Ethiopia is built for rapid expansion (in contrary to their UA and what people might think) since they WILL get a religion to offset a lot of the unhappiness that comes from expanding. Just pick happiness boosting Pantheon and Believes and you can keep expanding in absurdum.

Maya is also nice since rapid expansion with them will give you a nice science boost. Use them a little bit like the Ethiopians and get a religion going to offset the unhappiness.

I think the above five are the best ones.

 

[JohnYoga]

Thank you, Securion.

Wouldn't the Shoshone Civilization also be great at the expanse game, with their 14 tiles per city & combat bonus within territory?

The Pathfinders (Scouts) will be too outdated to matter by the Medieval era start, and the Comanche Riders will have a limited shelf-life...

Regards,

Marc

 

[iuliux]

What about India?
Lower penalty on number of cities.

 

[Cymsdale]

Do not underestimate the expansion capability of Vencie.

 

[Securion]

Thank you, Securion.

Wouldn't the Shoshone Civilization also be great at the expanse game, with their 14 tiles per city & combat bonus within territory?

The Pathfinders (Scouts) will be too outdated to matter by the Medieval era start, and the Comanche Riders will have a limited shelf-life...

Regards,

Marc

They dont really have anything that helps with rapid expansion though. Sure, you could skip building the early Monument and get an early Colosseum, but there is no extra happiness and no extra faith (for extra happiness from religion) anywhere to be found.
Getting a few early tiles can help with hooking up luxes faster, but there is no extra happiness at all.

EDIT; But yea, they have a slight boost. But its very small compared to the others...

 

[Monthar]

Here's a crazy thought, Play Venice, but max out the number of city states on a standard map and keep the same number of civs. After all, the more CS's you have the more cities Venice can buy.