Best Civ for Real Start Earth Map in VI

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I gave myself a real challenge - Japan on Immortal, with the conditions (1) no cities taken, and (2) I can only settle Oceania. I didn't settle my 2nd city until t63 (Philippines). Quadrireme Barbs were spawning NE of Seoul, it was a pain. I didn't start settling Australia until early 100s. I had to buy a Spear since Barb horsies were running amok, with more Quads spawning in the SW. I didn't get my 12th city (New Caledonia) until t160. I still have one Harbor not finished at t200.

I always play as if the AI is a military threat, so that slowed down a lot of development. Range units in every city, strong navy, etc. Nan Madol is a life-saver. I am currently running 2 adjacency cards (Harbor and Campus), and Colonial Taxes is worth ~90 gpt. So hard to find good Campus sites, and there's so little production in many places to build anything. But if you can finally get a Harbor down, the adjacency bonuses give you a pretty big reward in production once you buy a Shipyard.

I still haven't earned a single GP, lol. Next turn I get my 1st Admiral, the AI has done a lot of Harbors, and did them early. I'm in a close race with Kongo and China for Adam Smith (I only have 3 CH). Banking all my cash, and I will save scum to get him!

I'm not really trying to win - lots of Theaters going in, but priority is given to Harbors, and Campuses where possible. I am dead last in Science, and first in Military - even though I have barely upgraded anything. 11 Quadriremes have been ready to go for ages.

AI are China, Sumeria, Rome, Norway, Kongo, Brazil, and USA. Pretty decent expansion by all. Zanzibar is the only CS to go down - very surprising. I would like to be able to get rid of Kongo, but I'm not sure if Egypt would be a decent replacement.

I would be very curious to see someone who actually finishes games to give these conditions a try. I would assume it is impossible on Deity, and might be on Immortal as well (with no wars). It is quite painfully slow.

[edit - I play with Smoother Difficulty and Techs and Civics x 1.25 to slow the early game down]

 

[Victoria]

The trouble on deity now is they upped the desire/lowered the limitation on artefacts and great works and campuses. You can and normally do get a civ on the other side of the world that can grow so fast in culture that they are damn hard to stop peacefully. I have only managed to do it peacefully by using the seaside resort strategy which is not the best on tsl earth

 

[Bro]

You should really settle two cities in the Japanese mainland both at the opposite ends of the island. Other thing with Japan is prioritizing Harbours since you get double adjacency bonuses. You'll get crazy production out of those once you have Shipyards and the Harbour adjacency bonus card.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I would not want to settle the Silk, as I wouldn't get the Amenities for it w/o Irrigation. But I can see how it would be a much stronger start. In my game I forgot to nab the Fish E of Seoul, but otherwise I had about 35 Fishing Boats in my empire with God of the Sea.

 

[chazzycat]

I've played a few TSL games now and luxuries are really an issue. You can conquer all of europe + the middle east + India and you still only have 2 unique luxuries. I found the hard way that reliving Alexander's conquests was not the greatest plan.

So I always beeline towards settling south africa and the east Indies for those double lux cities (ivory + diamonds in Africa, spices + pearls in Indonesia)

I also feel like it's hard to balance the map. Brazil always ends up a beast but if you fill the Americas then Asia or Africa will be too open...

 

[Victoria]

would be very curious to see someone who actually finishes games to give these conditions a try. I would assume it is impossible on Deity, and might be on Immortal as well (with no wars).

I played deity Kongo 100% peacefully earlier in this thread, only 2 archers got to shoot if I remember right. It helped a lot having no cleo in the game but having Kumasi, Zanzibar, Kilimanjaro, and jungle nearby is such a good start.

I think the island civs like Japan and England must dominate initially to have any chance. Brazil and Kongo can just run away too fast on deity.

If you want a real challenge try playing France with England, Germany, Span and Rome in the game. Lost 4/4

 

[Bro]

Maybe if you move your settler towards the chokepoint between Spain and France. You really need a chokepoint that you can defend easily to have any changes.

 

[Bro]

If you want a real challenge try playing France with England, Germany, Span and Rome in the game. Lost 4/4

Alright. Second try with France and I'm getting the hang of it.

Settle Paris on the lower Wine luxury. Trade the Wine to Trajan to keep him happy. Move your Warrior towards Philip and nick a settler from him, make peace with him for gold and Horses, settle Rouen to the top left corner of France's area, it's the only spot you have. Build Slinger, Slinger, Slinger and upgrade those to Archers and start sieging Philip again. Eventually you'll conquer him and get another Settler and a builder. Germany and England will ask for friendship, you should only befriend Germany since the Galleys you are building in Rouen will attack England soon. Attack Germany once you have conquered Spain. You can block Trajan with just one Warrior and he will not trouble you anymore, will even ask for friendship. Go for Foreign trade and Achery first, then Craftmanship and Shipbuilding.

 

[Victoria]

Very good

 

[Bro]

There seems to be a lot of randomness still in this. A lot of depends on the first impression Trajan gets from you. Most likely you will need to block Trajan with your warrior and build another one right from the start and go nick the settler from Philip with the second warrior, then go slinger, slinger, slinger.

Hmm, or you can actually go nick the settler from Trajan and trade the Wine to Philip. Then go nick another settler from Philip and trade the wine to Frederick.

 

[gettingfat]

Just tried playing England (epic, immortal) on TSL Earth. After a couple of learning games I tried a new trick of using the builder as a scout. Builder is the only early unit that can swim after researching sailing and in early turns it is very rare to see barb navy so it is perfectly safe. I first settled near the coast to got eureka of sailing, researched sailing and built a builder. Then used the builder to build two fishing boats (to get Celestrial navigation's eureka), then sent the builder with only one charge left down south to discover Africa (get inspiration of Foreign trade), moved it eastward a couple of turns to meet Cathage (tried to get a free envoy, which I couldn't, but got a quest of training an archer, which was simple). From then there were two possible options, one was going back to build the 3rd improvement to got the inspiration for craftmanship, another one was landing on Africa to discover Mt Kilmanjaro to got the eureka of Astrology and meet Zanzibar and Kumasi, both great CS to build relationship as early as possible.

I found this trick really useful. With the early completion of foreign trade civic I easily built 3 galleys to take a defenseless city of Peter (building 2 galleys triggered shipbuilding eureka and taking a city with some improvements triggered a couple more of other techs so everything just snowballed), then built a few more quads to continue the coastal city attack...and began to switch to craftmanship/archer line to continue the conquest....until the western europe is 80% mine then I turtled and focused on economy. It was a really fun game and the trade routes/ money generated from the Royal dock/CH combo (and later encampment as I became suzerain of Cathage) were insane. For those who said blah to navy really need to give it a try.

 

[Victoria]

tried a new trick of using the builder as a scout.

Old trick but a useful one at times. That builder can also land and take goody huts so it's a strat Inoften use on island maps. TSL is sort of an island plate map. One Issue I always have is it means delaying or loosing the craftsmanship eureka.
I think most recognise the power of Navy but its lack of forcing their way inland and many just say it's dull because of the lack of opposition. Englands Pax Brittanica and redcoat make the inland charge fun and quite OP if you have caught up in science.

 

[gettingfat]

Old trick but a useful one at times. That builder can also land and take goody huts so it's a strat Inoften use on island maps. TSL is sort of an island plate map. One Issue I always have is it means delaying or loosing the craftsmanship eureka.
I think most recognise the power of Navy but its lack of forcing their way inland and many just say it's dull because of the lack of opposition. Englands Pax Brittanica and redcoat make the inland charge fun and quite OP if you have caught up in science.

Definitely not a new trick but i almost never used it as I don't play island map. Playing TSL map however needs to be more imaginative. This trick is also particularly useful for TSL because we know exactly where other continents, natural wonders and CS are, so the worker can just beeline to the target.

 

[TomLore]

New Civ player here and have been working my way up in difficulty and figured Teddy on TSL Earth would be a good way to dive into Deity for the first time given his secluded location. I ended up being completely alone in the "New World" with England, Russia, Germany, France (quickly taken over by Germany), China and Japan being the other Civs so I was able to completely spread across North and Central America and about half of South America before any other Civs came my way. I do pretty well on immortal but holy cow is deity a huge step up, by the time I met China (turn 180) they had all the space race techs researched and were already on the moon with ~500 science per turn. I was lucky enough to ally with them which revealed the whole map and I was able to start spamming spies at everyone's spaceports. I ended up with a science victory at turn 336 but only because I had 10 missile cruiser armadas and 2 destroyer armadas at that point, and the AI just can't counter a good Navy and most cities in TSL Earth are coastal or 1 or 2 in, very easy to capture with a big navy and a strong land unit or two. Germany, China and Russia were all 1 or 2 launches away from winning a science victory from roughly turn 225 but didn't repair a single spaceport so I was able to hold on.

Not sure I am ready for deity on any map that does not allow me to dominate the seas like TSL Earth...

 

[adcarrymaokai]

I played Brazil: Aztecs were in the game, so after clearing barb camps I moved some units to block the Panama Canal spot and eventually settled it. Conquered Buenos Aires and had 12 cities total. Very easy and fun, since the Amazon jungles give insane boosts to districts: like +8 for Commercial or +6 for Campus. The initial settler location has decent production, there is a 2 food 2 culture 4-tile wonder to the west with lots of hills for an expo which can churn out spaceship parts in a matter of turns. Very safe, too, since everyone else is too far away, and the Panama Canal area makes it so no civ from the north can actually attack without a large fleet.

 

[MrE]

Immortal, Australia.

Cheekily took the 5-6 turns to pop my first city close to Great Barrier Reef. Used the spare science to tech through ships fast. 1st settler out goes where the original capital would have been, but on the southern coast, and Venetian Arsenal goes in. Two pairs of frigates later I'm laying seige to Americas two more pairs I'm taking anything coastal in Asia. I have Brasil, America, Aztecs, Ghandi and Congo all being attacked/warred on at once. I own the ocean. And pairs of ships keep rolling out every six turns.

It was so easy it was boring so I stopped.

 

[MrE]

Oh yeah, my third city had Great Zimbabwe = OP, game over.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

When you're playing against other human players, yes.

When you're playing against AIs, no. In fact I think born isolated is the worst case. I prefer born near AIs so that I can get rid of barbarian issues while capturing cities very early. In C6 Ais are not as strong as barbarians.

 

[Victoria]

... apart from settling next to a civ with archery eureka and god of the forge on deity that does not have technophile or culture as a secondary agenda

 

[History_Guy]

If you look at England starting position, there is not much value with mining or pottery. If you can get a good fleet you do not even need archery. I got archery at about turn 120. There was room for 3 cities so getting an early settler as Scotland is great terrain, just not much of it. No granaries, do not need them, just slow you down initially. One key thing was because of the fish around London getting god of the sea Pantheon was rather important. I guess also pushing Foreign Trade as Maritime Industries gives you a whopping 100% for navy production. I mean Agoge, eat your heart out!Craftsmanship has little value and so pushed for 50% settlers before that so my second settler was cheaper. Its these little efficiencies that chip away at the turns so you get to attack earlier. And it is about how quickly you can get that fleet going.

I just pushed the sailing side at the right pace, getting 2 galleys then 4 quads, a fifth quad came free with an admiral. Victoria's cheap harbors can be built very early when you push navy giving good early trade routes. You still need CZ of course. A navy of 2 galleys and 5 quads is about right.

With deity the walls came up early and The first city I attacked only had room for 2 quads to fire so a lot of rotation and grinding which is in fact perfect for an early navy anyway. Promoting 2 quads up the right hand path makes them mean beasts against cities. Pushing the other 3 up the left path means they get bonuses against ships and land troops. The galleys are your scouts and very cheap to get to destroyers like all promotions, and you must have destroyers for subs.

You civics you push normally up to feudalism them time-rush them to mercenaries so you get 50% upgrades to your entire fleet.

If you are careful with a navy and do not move full distances in one click you are playing a navy properly. They have a few extra movement points to react to what they find. Once you are frigates with a range of 2 you can stack all 5 against 1 city and take it in a single turn with a caravel after bombardment. Ones further in do need troops but when you have that may frigates their city has no walls left and any troops that meet you die. Ideally your frigates get to a range of 3 ... This means your battleships get to a range of 4 and with +22 for you city takers, protected by 3 anti navy ships and 2 anti sub and an AI that is worse at navy battles than land battles... Its game over unless someone is winning mid continent. For that you grow as you dictate, you just outgrow their science then send the troops in

The above strategy any civ can do, England's only benefit is cheap harbors which are NOT useless. Getting a trade rout 6 turns earlier really makes a difference. England's real benefit comes with Pax Britannica which this example does not even show. take a coastal city as soon as you can push redcoats and you will see what I mean... every city you take gets a free redcoat and they are +10 combat and strong troops to start with... 5 cities in you have 5 redcoats... it just snowballs, at this time of the game these are not like spearmen, they are uber troops, well they can hold their own against modern infantry.

This game I befriended spain and slogged it out with France,weirdly Spain declared on me when I declared on Egypt to get into the Med.

Note: it took 3 attempts to get the right strategy to work. Norway royally beat me in one attempt and in the other I stupidly spent my gold on buying up the English channel. We all learn as we go... I play lots so am starting to get the idea now, but still learning and making mistakes. I also like playing inefficiently and not for victory. It gets dull otherwise.

Great read! I took your idea, and mixed it with a bit of my own. The result was domination victory deity on true start, but I still need to work on winning quicker. T300 is terrible