Best Seafaring Civ.Dutch or Portuguese?

[Train]

I prefer the portuguese one due to the military transport...
Talking about the UBs, I prefer the Dutch one...
Overall, Dutch are overpowered to portuguese.

 

[Piko]

ok gee, i don't know if i can vote on this yet, the portuguese get their ship a lot sooner, and with 2 scouts on a carrack they can find the best settling sites and send a galley with a settler and a unit in tow, no biggy? especially being imperialistic, will have the new world settled in no time (maybe a good use for colonies?). So will deffinately win the race for copper, iron or horses if needed. This can be a good advantage. And yes the UB is very useful for supporting the economy after expansion, that expansive trait will boost that aswell.

the dutch seem to have more of an aggressive looking form of expansion, with 4 cargo spots and unlikely to be sunk if you dont hang around for frigates and alike, this deffinately could put a few portuguese settlements at risk. And with the bonus water production later in the game, they will be able to build their modern ships faster than anyone else, destined to rule the seas twice in a game.

Are you a warmonger or a builder i guess? *votes portuguese*

Edit: oh but technically, ruling the seas twice? do i have to vote for the dutch?... I'll vote equal

 

[dutchking]

I say the Dutch, we like water...I live in America...

 

[homan1983]

ok gee, i don't know if i can vote on this yet, the portuguese get their ship a lot sooner, and with 2 scouts on a carrack they can find the best settling sites and send a galley with a settler and a unit in tow....

I don't think you understand.
One of the bonuses of the carrack is that it can carry mil. units [including settlers].

The second being that it can enter cultural borders without declaring war.

 

[TheLastOne36]

The Dutch Rule.. The Portuguese rule but in this game, the dutch seem better.

 

[GoliathFF8]

I don't think you understand.
One of the bonuses of the carrack is that it can carry mil. units [including settlers].

The second being that it can enter cultural borders without declaring war.

Please show me where it says that settlers are military units, or that Carrack's can hold settlers.

 

[sneaky]

The poll seems very much undecided.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Lol the portugeuse are catching up.

Up for some Portugeuse support anyone?

 

[GoliathFF8]

I really don't get why one would consider Portugal to be superior. Imperialistic and Expansive are, in my opinion, a weaker trait combo than Financial and Creative. Add to that a UU who's only job would be mapping out the world and maybe capturing some barbarian cities (would still be difficult due to there only being two unit spaces). The UB is pretty nice, but it basically provides something that the Dutch have had since the beginning of the game. When the Dutch finally reach Astronomy, not only will they begin settling a bunch of colonies, but will also have the capacity to take from Portuguese. When Steam Power rolls around, the Dutch production and financial bonuses would be large enough to simply eclipse everything that Portugal has.

 

[homan1983]

Please show me where it says that settlers are military units, or that Carrack's can hold settlers.

What u just said is irrelavent.

Any ship that can hold units can hold both settlers and military units - I just refer to "units" as military units.

The only special case is "special units" which include spies and great people. So assuming that carracks carry non-special units [aka military units] also implies that it carries settlers.

As for whether the carrack can hold non-special units, then apart from the fact that it is the primary "uniqueness" of the UU, then I read in 1 article and 1 info. thread about this. I can't actually recall their URL however sorry.

 

[Ikael]

The Portugese, pretty much like the Spanish, got royally shafted on the game. Completely unbalanced, IMHO.

 

[Rusty Edge]

I still intend to try Portugal first.

Alex Mantzaris: There are 10 new Civilizations, for a total of 34, and 16 new leaders, for a total of 52. One of my new favorite leaders is Joao II of Portugal. He's especially fun to play because his traits (Imperialistic and Expansionist) and unique unit (Carrack) work very well together for early expansion and colonization.

He knows more about BTS than I do.

 

[Dutch Canuck]

Wow, it's Monday June 25 and the Portuguese are now closely behind the Dutch! Well, this is all speculation at this point. I originally figured that the Dutch would have an edge over the Portuguese by game's end; maybe the poll results will still reflect that by the time we get our greedy hands on this shiny new XP!

 

[TheLastOne36]

It's neck to neck...

 

[Dutch Canuck]

It's neck to neck...

Oh you're just trying to raise your post count!

 

[50_dollar_bag]

In Terra maps if you're the first to the new land and either capture or found a city there's a huge wave of barbs that comes at you from all over the continent which can be quite hard to survive sometimes if the barbs have reached grenadiers, but with a Carrack being further down the tech tree the barbs shouldn't be too hard to fend off. Although if you soak up the waves of barbs it just makes it easier for other AIs to settle later on.

As far as king of the seas goes if your looking at the UU unit of both civs the East Indiaman wins hands down, if you take Astronomy with the obligatory Liberalism grab you'll rule the seas, plus invasions are more economical with the extra cargo space.

The Carrack on the other hand will make inter-continental warfare possible earlier, but it won't be easy, you'll need quite a big invasion force to repel any counter attacks, and any city you do manage to capture and hold will be cut off from any happiness/health resources from the mainland until Astonomy.

If you take into account the whole picture with both civs i.e. UU, UB and leader traits, the the Dutch win again. The portugese UB grants an extra commerce per water tile but Willem is financial and gets that anyway so that's negated, which just leaves the Dutch UB which grants production on all water tiles. Sure the Portugese can expand faster earlier, but the Dutch leader being creative can do a pretty good job at that too.
Of course it could change quite a lot with mix'n'match leaders/civs.

My 2 NZ$

 

[Dutch Canuck]

In Terra maps...

Of course it could change quite a lot with mix'n'match leaders/civs.

My 2 NZ$

That was a very thorough and fair assessment!

I like terra map games as well as maps that feature many islands and subcontinents, if not archipelagos. I will definitely play the Dutch but try the Portuguese too. I may even hotseat the game and play both to test how these two civs "feel" to play. I think it will be close.

Oh everyone... imagine the Dutch and Portuguese playing together on the same team!

 

[cybrxkhan]

Oh everyone... imagine the Dutch and Portuguese playing together on the same team!

dont worry... hopefully the too many Chinese in China, religious fanatics in Spain, freak isolationalists in Japan and killer Catherines in Russia will unite to defeat these eivl imperialists.

 

[GoliathFF8]

What u just said is irrelavent.

Any ship that can hold units can hold both settlers and military units - I just refer to "units" as military units.

The only special case is "special units" which include spies and great people. So assuming that carracks carry non-special units [aka military units] also implies that it carries settlers.

As for whether the carrack can hold non-special units, then apart from the fact that it is the primary "uniqueness" of the UU, then I read in 1 article and 1 info. thread about this. I can't actually recall their URL however sorry.

Workers and Settlers are considered special units. They are not military units.

 

[dutchking]

Workers and Settlers are considered special units. They are not military units.

Yeah, they're considered "domestics".