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BETA: 1.25 (#2)

Discussion in '[MAC+WIN] Civ4 - History Rewritten' started by Xyth, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Progress Update

    I've think I've fixed most of the relevant issues reported in this thread (thanks again all), but fixing the Common Market 'shared resources' crash is proving a real nightmare. What I thought would be simple new feature is actually much more complex than I thought and I have to completely rethink and rewrite it. I won't have any time to work on it until the middle of next week unfortunately, but if I don't figure out a solution soon after that I'll probably scrap the mechanic (shared resources, not the Agreement itself) and think of something different. Suggestions welcome, but keep them simple. My DLL modding skills are still in their infancy.
     
    cobbaut likes this.
  2. eysteinn

    eysteinn Chieftain

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    Thank you for your efforts. Can you release an update without the mechanic for now?
     
  3. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    No sorry. Disabling it requires a recompile of the DLL and thus a bunch of testing to be sure I haven't broken anything. Won't have time for that before the middle of next week.
     
  4. chickencho

    chickencho Chieftain

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    Always thankful for your great work!
     
  5. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

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    Ahh-- sorry for another last minute fat report of observations and brain storming for solutions of some minor task.

    I saw the negative number on Great Artist production to.
    Spoiler Here is the files. :

    20190729194216_1.jpg 20190729194221_1.jpg


    Some Questions:

    -Its okay that conquered city, still on Resistance Timer, already produces dissent? It doesn't sound right when it can be overtaken completely by liberating, and I can't fight it from beginning.

    -Its okay that barbarian culture can cause "We desire join our motherland."? (high unhappiness apply to dissent) What motherland?
    1. You former motherland is gone.
    2. You dint have motherland in first place.

    -Grenadier, its okay if it have access to city garrison promotions? Its somehow feel contra productive to his ability as offense unit. (Ignore building defense, 75% collateral damage, +50% attack against riflemen) Or it just because of the units that can promote to it.

    Spoiler Suggestion :

    1. Change its status from Gun unit to Archery units. (Because it throws, and even if it use explosives, it don’t use gun, or even dint need the gun powder.)

    + Then change upgrade for Longbowman to only Grenadier. Next disable upgrade for Musketman to Grenadier. Next change upgrade for Grenadier from Infantry to Antitank.

    2. Disable promotion City Garrison and allow flanking.

    3. Dint know if it will be good to convert 25% of collateral damage (reducing to 50%) to 25% withdraw chance

    4. (Anti tank if we think about him as a final skirmish unit) Change 20% Interception of Air unit to 25%-50% withdraw chance. Change interception promotion to flank. I was thinking of balancing it whit lees damage from Air units or have +25% less collateral damage (watch drill IV) Rename it to RPG. (Or Pancer Fist if Germans.) Practically it dint use gun but rocket, but I dint ask to think we can move it to Archery class.


    (Observation)
    -It will be nice if forts and likes have fortification number next to it same as cities have. It can be confusing in a way that the denseness bonus can be taken as permanent value. Sometimes I even overlook that there is fort at all. If Necessary or if for better look. There can be sing like city name that display Encap, fort, fortress and defense modificator, so no one can say I dint see that there. It will be nice to have it described on concept on Forts, Fortification, defense or add it to Siege. (It will be nice to give it there a line: "Difficulty level have a small hidden bonus that dint show on potential combat result but it give bonus to defender.")

    -On Foreign advisor I want to ask if on the left site you can pull every scroll bar a little down. Even if it means put on the cross line. It disrupt view on numbers
    20190731164225_1.jpg



    Theory:

    -On advanced state of game where land mass is filed and culture strongly expanded its quite hard to keep conquered cities. 1. If city is near to border whit 3. Empire they culture will keep steeling necessary work tiles and causing secondary starvation and massive dissent rise.

    2. Strong opposing Culture in city practically dooming the city to generating large amount of dissent, no matter contra methods.

    Spoiler So it will be fine to have other options to solve this that total conquest or burning it all. There is some ideas I try brain storming. (Some of it are clearly for v26 but at last one of it will be good to apply on v25 in silly way.) :

    1. Always Keep at last cycle radius 1 (cultural level 1: poor) on cultural border for owner of that city, by same way as fortress do. This way we can manage that city don’t set on rollercoaster down to size 1 and still have value to have it on border by other means that be bumper for the 3. Empire cultural rush. (If I own Fortress and Build city next to it, will be reduced to Fort, or it dint allow me to do.)

    ++Next the circle of radius 2 (cultural level 2: Fledging) can be part of non aggression treaty.

    2. When city conquered partial of its total culture points will be converted to conqueror.

    3. When empire dies and its culture will turn into barbarian. Part of the former culture points will be converted to owners of city. (If not barbarians.)

    4. Culture points (not just barbarians, but for start only barbarians) can be slowly converted to owner of city.

    5. Building/ constructing/ train a buildable 'event' in city. When build a event will be cast and for purpose it will take a time to be able build it again. (Like 10 turns?) (Hammer cost: base value * size of city? (Or just meter that can change targeted value and show time of active effect or time to be able to build next 'event'))

    ++It can just simply effect dissent values directly by decrease it by some value (base value * culture level * era * map speed). Or cast a real event when you can chose: basic effect. Or spend money to boost effect. (Like decrease by whole level) Or just use Spy point against targeted empire. Last even can be temporally freeze dissent meter from raise. (Freeze not possible on Democracy)

    ++Same can be used for culture conversion of not yours culture (not possible on multi--cuturializmus), or banishing non owner culture. (Not possible on Liberty an Equality)

    -+or convert for some time, all culture production from all tiles (if culture level more that 1) and put it just to radius one. (Not possible on Social Warfare)

    ++It can be used for boost religion spreading. (Holy city) Prioritize own cities. (Not possible on Sustainability)

    6. Cultural point not connected to city or whatever can slowly decease. It can solve problematic of new cities whit to large portion of barbarian culture. (Probably to much for RAM a CPU)

    7. Cities somehow remember what was their culture before. Or culture of defeated empire will not turn to barbarian but slowly convert to barbarian or owners.

    +So when A. its rebelled and be take back it will be nicely shifted to increase its previous owner culture rate.

    +B. The rebellion can establish formerly lost Empire and influenced its former citizen in other cities around world to reclaim they nationality (culture or its part in other cities will change from barbarian to this one.)

    8. Additionally newly formed empires (rebelled) will have dissent reduction bonus as long as Empire from where they run out exist or have war whit it. Or just that city have high happy bonus from "Finally Freedom." (Of course it will scrap the moment this or former empire will perish. (Protection from stacking this effect))


    Diplomacy. It was say that making a trade (or whatever) like will establish temporally peace treaty (cannot declare war), but when making deal when its on will not and that is employable by AI to forcing asking for declare war. (bribery that cannot be evaded because it happen before you have chance to extend peace.)

    -So for some ridicules reason I think its good to make some treaty that can extend the peace treaty before it expire like "Extend peace treaty." Or it will put on in automatically when a higher trade treaty or military treaty will be signed. Like Embassy and other.
    +It can be only accessible when you status are on dark green.
    Spoiler The peace itself can cause: :

    +1 relationship point for "You have peace whit mi friend."

    -1 relationship point for "You have peace whit mi Enemy."

    +1 relationship point for "We have Peace-Treaty."

    ("Years of Peace strength our relationships" shall not disappear when war come.)

    -Next it will be fine to display how long our Peace-treaty will last. Maybe its good to put in foreign advisor page. More accurately on main page on left side on column whit face and stats of the empire. Add next Line. That will fast show necessary data. Or that peace can be displayed on HUD display as icon and number on that icon. (Same for Spy Resistance (They got +100% cost) and penalty (we got +100%cost) )

    On diplomacy I kind fail to get what common marked resource share will do. If its means that subjugated/ Vassal Empire will hand over, all of its resources to you and they will have access to all what you have,-- then it’s a good concept. But it will require that all vassal have whit every vassal all passage rights. And plus diplomacy points for being vassals for same empire.
    Spoiler The next stage will be Wonder effect, but that’s probably to much op. :

    One thing is that sharing wonder effect will greatly benefit the Vassals, and second think is that protector can get over powered compare to empires wit not vassals. And putting even lowered effect its look like to much. Like when you look on wonder on Civilopedia it will not have just only Base Effect but Shared effect for Allies. (Like great wonder: Effect: Barbarian cant enter, +100% great general. Shared Effect: +50% great general)? Still it dint look good.


    Spoiler The AI becomes so much Technology rush Whore. :

    -Some manage keep they cities that have nearly only towns on it work tiles. Rushing in technology leaving itself vulnerable to Human player that can exploit it by just technological weaker but numerically superior army.

    -Some are cowards that don’t lets his armies out of cities until have total advantages against opponents. That especially include to go conquer others empires. That’s leads to point of Cold War. "We have war but I dint go to fight you, and only deal with you army that come to me", or "that city was me". They aggression is okay against barbarian but totally passive against other empire if they don’t have total advantage. (Mostly in military by just having expedition army bigger that you entire army. Different scenarios occur when you are whit opponet on massive continent or on isolated island.) So practically one can keep itself safe from war when keep a large military force.

    +Same happen when have war to multiple opponents. It dint matter if its weakling, they are resisting to go to his territory.

    +Same happens if it's to distant it dint mater if they must past territory of their vassals.

    -The Ai work good to retake the city when it rebel to Barbarian, bud poorly when it form a new empire. (The barbarian went out to expand and conquer and fight intruders and infidels, but not new empire.) It will be nice if there is some push that will make AI be more Aggressive against nearly formed empire that raise from your own lines, in odder to retake it back.

    +Additionally for future it will be okay that if rebellion event occurred and there is near a Empire that raised from rebellion it will join them. Other ways your will look to map whit so many 2-3 cities empires.

    -Some empire that manage to usefully pull of technology rush can pull to yourself so many vassal that it practically don’t need build army because the overall sum of army strength is enough to keep a war declaration to it.


    Spoiler Extra feature for v26+ can be that vassal state are temporally protected from standard rebellion to occur. (Ups I mentioned it long ago, sorry. For those who dint know, please continue to read.) :

    Just think that the vassal state have extra bar for Government Fall whit (Loyal, stable, unsettled and rebellious.) milestones.

    Those milestones values are counted by cities of its own empire. Plus and minus dissent generated by cities are counted together. When city itself reach rebellious state it dint cause any rebellion event, but the points that sending to that extra Government fall bar will triple its incoming.

    If the Fall bar will hit Rebellious it can cast a event when the Vassal Empire perish and new one will create on place. (It was English before now its France.) It reset diplomatic point for all to 0. But for former Lord it will give war and negative points. On its cities will even convert part of foreigner culture to its own. --Secondary it cause a increase of the Fall bar by half of level in every other vassal state.

    If it hit Unsettled and some vassals of you Lord cast fall,-- This Vassal have chance to fall to, and will join the one that are newly created. If have one city is 100% --Secondary it cause a increase of the Fall bar by 1/4 of level in every other vassal state that dint disconnect jet.

    Disconnecting (Leaving protection) from the Lord when on Unsettle can cast this transformation.

    Extra event can be cast when a Lord empire will fall and its left Vassals. Theoretically it can increase the Fall bar by entire level and then check every vassals for this and roll the chance of new empire. And if I want be more "Anty conqueror coalition." I will cast a second roll for all to form and join the new empire. (Rebellious, unsettled 100%, stable 70%, loyal 40%.) I will go as far as ask all empires who have mark of the one who rebelled from this one (former) to give it roll. And even ask nearly barbarian cities and barbarian cities that have this mark, to give it roll to. And what the hell we have here? A new power on map.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    I'm only responding to comments relevant to this beta. Suggestions for new/revised features need to be posted in a different thread. I'm not making any further changes to dissent or culture until after 1.25.

    It's a UI bug, thanks for the saved game.

    Those city name/info panels are not accessible to modding. Might be possible with landmark/signposts (Ctrl-S) though. Will add to the todo list.

    I've moved the numbers to the top right corner instead of the bottom right corner.

    I'm not quite sure what you're describing here. Is this a bug or request for a new feature?

    Nothing to do with vassals. If you sign a Common Market agreement then you have access to the other civ's resources and they have access to yours. And neither loses access to their own resources, i.e. they are not traded away. So if you want to build a Nuclear Submarine but your cities don't have Uranium anywhere, you can't build it. But if your Common Market friend does have Uranium, then you can. And all the other benefits thereof.

    Assuming I can get it working,
     
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  7. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

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    About a diplomacy. its new feature based on existing stuff. (Or i imagine it that.)
    There is "case fire" treaty that end war, and there is "peace" treaty that make for 10 turns unable to declare war. (Previously used AI for build up army and declare war imidietly the peace is gone.) same goes for war, one can proposing cease fire if 10 turns dint pas.
    So I aiming about opportunity to extend somehow this time of "unable to declare war" by diplomacy means. Maybe repay war weariness can triple the effect. (if it will be back) Or some extra treaty that will extend this time even when first are not finished/ expired, but as a insurgence from over doing it will take time to repeat this treaty again. (Scenario: War is erupting or ready to burst, but we don't want go join the war effort so we sing not declaring war temporal treaty, to be prevented from diplomacy penalty. (The one that you get from decaying the request to join the war) ) Unfortunately, This treaty can be tricky for AI to use, and preparation to declare war can become a real mess.
     
  8. Civ4Gandalf13

    Civ4Gandalf13 Warlord

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    To Xyth:

    The Common Market idea has me intrigued. I have a question though. How does it affect balance? Potentially, if a few Countries in the Common Market agreement have access to all of the resources that the signatories have - then it would seem that any one of the signatories would have an overwhelming economic advantage over single non-signatories - thereby significantly affected balance.
     
  9. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

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    Maybe this was already reported or i see bad, bud in foreign advisor on right down the your get they get are swapped. (I get stone and they get fruit and catle, but this displayed the opposite.)
     
  10. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Ok I see. I need to get all the current changes to diplomacy fixed and balanced before I can consider anything extra.

    They're bilateral rather than multilateral agreements and also only available quite late in a game.

    Has been fixed.
     
  11. Civ4Gandalf13

    Civ4Gandalf13 Warlord

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  12. Civ4Gandalf13

    Civ4Gandalf13 Warlord

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    I think I ma have found a bug in 1.25(2nd). I have several Galleases with Great General warlords. All are in the 40 XP range except for one, which remains at 20 XP. I twill not accept any additional XPs from barbarian units but the other Galleases do.
     
  13. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

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    I want ask, if its okay that Explorer and Conquistador (Spanish crusader) have same icon.
     
  14. Civ4Gandalf13

    Civ4Gandalf13 Warlord

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    This might be a bug in 1.25(2nd). My capital automatically changed from Athens to another city. I did not do anything to force this change and there were no threats to Athens. Does anyone know how to change the capital back using Worldbuilder or another method to do so? Thanks.
     
  15. DarkLunaPhantom

    DarkLunaPhantom Prince Supporter

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    Using World Builder to place the Palace in Athens should work.
     
  16. Civ4Gandalf13

    Civ4Gandalf13 Warlord

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    Thanks. I tried that but it would not work. So I went back into the saves and jumped into the game again. When I went through the date that it had previously changed the capital - it did not do it. Must have been a transient gremlin.
     
  17. Miguel Blackmore

    Miguel Blackmore Chieftain

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    Not without difficulty, but still I was able to finish the game. The game crushed in Hot Seat mode when I discovered Druidism and once again when the founding of the Corporation coincided with the signing of a Treaty between Egypt and Germany. In General, it turned out to be a good party, but I have a question that I did not ask last time: With such a rich abundance of different units in each nation, why do planes, modern ships, tanks and other equipment looks the same at all? After all, there are so many different versions of equipment, moreover, there are even modifications that add different types of military equipment, very strange.
     
  18. 5Echo2

    5Echo2 Chieftain

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  19. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

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    Hardware resource management.
    As far as i remember civ is 32x (system/ metod) that means no more that 2gb ram. In advanced game states there are a loot of units and have the same model are actually resource friendly for PC ram and resource management. For more types of posibilities AI consume more resource as it considering what to do. If we hit the 2gb limit game start be a little bit laggy. And no it dont mater if you have a monster as computer. Its just the 32x limit. (If i remember correctly.)
     
  20. KeeperOT7Keys

    KeeperOT7Keys did nothing wrong

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    I had a bug while running occultism, I had a great temple in my capital so I was getting a free merchant. But when I switched to a different tenet I had a -1 merchant specialist in my city causing me to lose gold each turn.
     

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