Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
It's strange when that happens, I upload the files and they just... vanish! 
Beta & Bug Reports
- Thread starter Thalassicus
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Xink
King
I have an iron mine here...
no problem.
and then it was announced I had discovered aluminium and so I built a mine here...
surely that isn't the correct symbol for aluminium..?
I am playing beta 11.
no problem.
and then it was announced I had discovered aluminium and so I built a mine here...
surely that isn't the correct symbol for aluminium..?
I am playing beta 11.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
That's the symbol for 5 hammers. 
When it reaches 5
it gets a new symbol, and amounts past 5 show a number.
When it reaches 5
it gets a new symbol, and amounts past 5 show a number.Xink
King
no what I meant was I am forgetting if the symbol for aluminium was a trash can and not an anvil, as it is for iron...?
[4.09]
It appeared that I could build Agra Fort without building walls. Shouldn't walls be a requirement? (I would guess that this could have been fixed with the changes to NWs in 4.11.)
It looks like the watermill doesn't add 1 gold to the city tile, only the other tiles. Is this intended? Also, I had several cases where building a watermill would have given me an additional 2, 3, or maybe 4 gold. With a maintenance cost of 3 gold, this makes it rarely worth it. The food bonus on sugar or spices won't be very common. Maybe maintenance should be reduced to 1 or 2 gold to make it more often worth building? And/or maybe 1 or 2 hammers should be returned to the building?
And I noticed that capturing a size 11 city would reduce the population down to 9, but the resistance time was still 11 turns. Should the resistance time be the same as the new population size?
It appeared that I could build Agra Fort without building walls. Shouldn't walls be a requirement? (I would guess that this could have been fixed with the changes to NWs in 4.11.)
It looks like the watermill doesn't add 1 gold to the city tile, only the other tiles. Is this intended? Also, I had several cases where building a watermill would have given me an additional 2, 3, or maybe 4 gold. With a maintenance cost of 3 gold, this makes it rarely worth it. The food bonus on sugar or spices won't be very common. Maybe maintenance should be reduced to 1 or 2 gold to make it more often worth building? And/or maybe 1 or 2 hammers should be returned to the building?
And I noticed that capturing a size 11 city would reduce the population down to 9, but the resistance time was still 11 turns. Should the resistance time be the same as the new population size?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@Xink
Do you mean the Ctrl+R resource icons...?
@SSgtDuke
Thank you for pointing out the Agra Fort bug, found and fixed it now.
City center tiles generally do not get bonuses from what terrain they're on (unless it's a resource). With the watermill... on the one hand I've had some feedback it's overpowered, and on the other hand you're saying it's underpowered. I think we just need more time playing around with it to figure out one way or the other.
I'd tend to agree it should keep one or the other of its yield bonuses, and originally had it that way but removed it based on feedback.
City resistance is unfortunately completely hardcoded... no variables directly controlling it in the XML files, and no Lua functions to get or set the resistance time.
However, there is an (undocumented) function to check if a city is in resistance... which I'm going to use to send some extra food there to prevent starvation, a problem brought up before.
Do you mean the Ctrl+R resource icons...?
@SSgtDuke
Thank you for pointing out the Agra Fort bug, found and fixed it now.
City center tiles generally do not get bonuses from what terrain they're on (unless it's a resource). With the watermill... on the one hand I've had some feedback it's overpowered, and on the other hand you're saying it's underpowered. I think we just need more time playing around with it to figure out one way or the other.
I'd tend to agree it should keep one or the other of its yield bonuses, and originally had it that way but removed it based on feedback.
City resistance is unfortunately completely hardcoded... no variables directly controlling it in the XML files, and no Lua functions to get or set the resistance time.
However, there is an (undocumented) function to check if a city is in resistance... which I'm going to use to send some extra food there to prevent starvation, a problem brought up before.
@Xink
City center tiles generally do not get bonuses from what terrain they're on (unless it's a resource). With the watermill... on the one hand I've had some feedback it's overpowered, and on the other hand you're saying it's underpowered. I think we just need more time playing around with it to figure out one way or the other.
I'd tend to agree it should keep one or the other of its yield bonuses, and originally had it that way but removed it based on feedback.
It's just the same with the lighthouse, imo. Both buildings aren't really worth their maintenance or production cost (watermill) in the beginning, since you probably balanced them with a more developed city in mind (5+ coast or rivertiles and commerce boosters). Imo, reducing their (maintenance) cost would be better than adding additional yields, so that researching wheel/optics early has some value.
What are some other examples where base land terrain is adjusted? I can only think of the hydro plant. Other adjustments are on improvements. I think that the watermill should add 1 gold to the city tile and the hydro plant should add 1 hammer to the city tile (if it doesn't already).
Xink
King
You need people like me to help and reinforce just how clever you are
rhammer640
Russian Monk
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2010
- Messages
- 386
I know it might be too hard to balance but I think it would be nice if cities did have different yields depending on the terrain. Maybe instead of them being that way at the start, buildings could add + to city plots depending on terrain, like +1 production on a hill, etc. It would have to be on early buildings to be a big enough difference to matter i guess. Maybe its not a high priority but it could help add more thought when placing cities rather then now when i end up building the city on the least productive plot because its the same no matter what. Desert cities shouldn't produce the same as a grassland or hill city, but could just be me.
ps i know ive been proposing somewhat radical changes recently, but figure it cant hurt
Both buildings actually add 1 to the city tile, the bonus just usually gets overwritten by the minimum city tile yields of 2 hammers/1 gold. If you settle on a resource, or any other tile that has a yield at least equal to these minimum yields, then you will see the increase (e.g. settling on a luxury/river tile gives you 2 gold on your city tile, which increases to 3 with a watermill - same should go for settling on a hill/river and building a hydro plant).
Ahriman
Tyrant
I don't think the AI is programmed to consider this kind of thing in city placement, so I would tend to recommend against it.
A desert city will already be penalized by having lots of other useless desert tiles around. I don't think it needs an additional penalty.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
There's variables weighting the value of yields for AI settler placement, citizen allocation and so on, so I'm assuming they do take that into consideration.
The one reason I haven't used RED in a while is I tend to play with the screen zoomed out one click of my mouse wheel.. and RED shrinks units so much it ends up I can't tell the difference between one and another. I'll see what I can do about a compatibility patch though.
The one reason I haven't used RED in a while is I tend to play with the screen zoomed out one click of my mouse wheel.. and RED shrinks units so much it ends up I can't tell the difference between one and another. I'll see what I can do about a compatibility patch though.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
You could try it with just RED installed to see what it looks like.
I tried it and I don't see a difference. I must have the mod installed wrong. One thing I'll point out is when I use the 7-zip to extract to the mod folder I find the folders in quite a mess. The mod won't show up in my mod browser until I put the files in one place. I put them all in the folder with the xml title. There must be something I'm doing wrong.
orangecape
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2010
- Messages
- 89
I tried setting it up so that the 2h/2f/1g minimums weren't there for city tiles. I designed it such that there were no minimums and added a building for 1 production called City Hall that gave +1h/+1f. The idea was that you could settle on a hill and effectively have a 3h/1f tile or on grassland and have a 3f/1h tile or any other interesting combination.
The trouble is that the AI totally does not understand this change. It builds the City Hall fine but it regularly plants cities on desert and snow with decent tiles nearby. It clearly is operating on the assumption that the city tile is going to be 2f/2h/1g and I have no idea how to change that. It might be possible to teach it not to do that but it is well beyond me.
The trouble is that the AI totally does not understand this change. It builds the City Hall fine but it regularly plants cities on desert and snow with decent tiles nearby. It clearly is operating on the assumption that the city tile is going to be 2f/2h/1g and I have no idea how to change that. It might be possible to teach it not to do that but it is well beyond me.
Torvald
Prince
Thal,
Yes, I was using some other mods: Hover Info, Better Japanese City Names, Tectonics, Improved Notifications, and several added Wonders.
I promise to make the next run through properly, without any other added mods (which I should have been doing all along).
If you could, though - please repeat your instructions on where to download the SDK software, how to install it, and how to activate the LiveTuner feature. That would be really helpful.
Thanks again for all your efforts in creating & constantly improving the Balance mods.
Yes, I was using some other mods: Hover Info, Better Japanese City Names, Tectonics, Improved Notifications, and several added Wonders.
I promise to make the next run through properly, without any other added mods (which I should have been doing all along).
If you could, though - please repeat your instructions on where to download the SDK software, how to install it, and how to activate the LiveTuner feature. That would be really helpful.
Thanks again for all your efforts in creating & constantly improving the Balance mods.
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