Beta & Bug Reports

[Ahriman]

Played ~150 turns of v 0.19 without noticing any problems.

 

[doktorstick]

Still working through .18.

My GE could not put hammers toward the Apollo Program, but it could do it toward Sydney Opera House. Is it because the Apollo Program is gate for a victory condition? Bug?

I'm on the brink of war with Japan. They have 63 guided missiles. I have built interceptors and and mobile SAMs. Unfortunately, I can only build 3 mobile SAMs (36 gpt maintenance) and 4 fighters (32 gpt). I can't build any more without going negative in gpt (552 income, 548 expenses).

I don't know if this will be a problem, but I can't compete defensively even if I had a much higher gpt. The missiles may also be giving Japan an inflated pointy-stick rating. It's Emperor level for reference. I'll save off this game and force war to see what happens later tonight.

 

[Ahriman]

36 gold per turn maintenance each? or 12 each?

By the stage of mobile SAMs, you should have several hundred gold per turn of income.
What are the maintenance costs on 63 guided missiles? Is the Japanese economy massively larger than yours?

 

[Txurce]

Still working through .18.

My GE could not put hammers toward the Apollo Program, but it could do it toward Sydney Opera House. Is it because the Apollo Program is gate for a victory condition? Bug?

I'm on the brink of war with Japan. They have 63 guided missiles. I have built interceptors and and mobile SAMs. Unfortunately, I can only build 3 mobile SAMs (36 gpt maintenance) and 4 fighters (32 gpt). I can't build any more without going negative in gpt (552 income, 548 expenses).

I don't know if this will be a problem, but I can't compete defensively even if I had a much higher gpt. The missiles may also be giving Japan an inflated pointy-stick rating. It's Emperor level for reference. I'll save off this game and force war to see what happens later tonight.

Hammers don't work for Apollo, Manhattan, or SS parts. This is not a bug.

The AI is sometimes going to wind up with something like 63 missiles, especially on the higher levels, if you don't win the game sooner. The big disparity is your GPT vs the AI's. Has the maintenance always been that huge for modern weapons?

 

[doktorstick]

I have 5 mature cities, 1 puppet city, and 2 new cities (for oil). I'm missing two trade routes[1]. The maintenance of the SAMs are 12gpt/each; fighters are 8 gpt/each. I have no aluminum[2] nor does Japan. Japan has 13 cities, a GNP of 1247 gpt, but nets -231 gpt. They've been in the negative net gold since 1900[3] (it's 1949 now). Their "active military duty" is 513,891. The maintenance on guided missiles is 4 gpt (or 252 gpt for Japan).

[1] I'm on a horseshoe continent and I crossed one tip to the other. Harbors don't work--apparently--to complete trade routes on the same content.
[2] The map has 50 oil and 3 aluminum (by rough count).
[3] According to InfoAddict.

 

[SSgtDuke]

I'm on the brink of war with Japan. They have 63 guided missiles.

This is very interesting. Please post the war results. I'm curious if any unit you put in their range just gets instantly decimated by the missiles and if you had any reasonable chance to advance. What was the total score difference before the war?

 

[SSgtDuke]

Harbors don't work--apparently--to complete trade routes on the same content.

They do, you just need to have explored all of the coast that would connect them to the capital. I had this problem once and just needed to explore one tile to see the full coastline and then it was connected.

 

[Ahriman]

Has the maintenance always been that huge for modern weapons?

No, it was a deliberate change in the Balance mod to control late-game gold income, and to move to individual units having their own maintenance, rather than every unit being identical.

There's really no excuse to not have mature cities connected to trade routes (but if its the small, new cities, it shouldn't really matter).
As noted, Harbors do work if you can actually trace a route through open or friendly territory.

I have 5 mature cities, 1 puppet city, and 2 new cities (for oil). I'm missing two trade routes[1]. The maintenance of the SAMs are 12gpt/each; fighters are 8 gpt/each. I have no aluminum[2] nor does Japan. Japan has 13 cities, a GNP of 1247 gpt, but nets -231 gpt. They've been in the negative net gold since 1900[3] (it's 1949 now).

What is your gold income per turn? Seems like you have a fairly small empire for that late in the game. What's the map size?
It sounds like Japan might be kicking your ass, economically (but we don't know total population of you vs them). If they have a huge negative gold income, then their tech is probably fairly crippled, so you should push for SS.

8 gold per turn for fighter and 12 for mobile SAM doesn't seem that unreasonable given normal late-game gold incomes. You should be able to afford 200+ gold per turn for military maintenance.
If your economy is radically smaller, then you should lose.

 

[LamaGT]

i have a serious bug, i can't use GS, already happened in 2 different games
Basically i don't see the left bar, except the delete unit .-.
I don't have any other UI mod except balance combined
EDIT: never mind, already posted on the other thread and thought it was closed lol

 

[Txurce]

They do, you just need to have explored all of the coast that would connect them to the capital. I had this problem once and just needed to explore one tile to see the full coastline and then it was connected.

I have recently encountered an anomaly where I have a city connected to the capital by road, but when I added a harbor to both (for the RR bonus) the trade route was broken.

 

[Ahriman]

I think there is a vanilla bug that does this sometimes.
Partly I think its that the game "prefers" sea links to land links, but if the sea link is broken it doesn't always correctly identify the land link.

 

[doktorstick]

I can't build any more without going negative in gpt (552 income, 548 expenses).

The trade route would help some. About 300 gpt of the 552 gpt is building maintenance (with 1st tier Order SP).

They do, you just need to have explored all of the coast that would connect them to the capital. I had this problem once and just needed to explore one tile to see the full coastline and then it was connected.

I have satellites, so I don't know how that can be the issue.

What is your gold income per turn? Seems like you have a fairly small empire for that late in the game. What's the map size?
It sounds like Japan might be kicking your ass, economically (but we don't know total population of you vs them). If they have a huge negative gold income, then their tech is probably fairly crippled, so you should push for SS.

8 gold per turn for fighter and 12 for mobile SAM doesn't seem that unreasonable given normal late-game gold incomes. You should be able to afford 200+ gold per turn for military maintenance.
If your economy is radically smaller, then you should lose.

It's a small map. In 9 more turns I'll have all the techs needed for SS. I've boosters coming online now. Though that's beside the point, really. I was posting to illustrate how many missiles were being produced, and how much it cost (me) to try and counter. (I don't know how many fighters/SAMs are needed to counter that many missiles, and what my gpt cost would be to do so.) I'm trying to determine if the missile spam is balanced or not.

Oh, good job on the land unit diversification, Thal. They have a good mix of units at my borders.

 

[doktorstick]

What are the mechanics of intercepting missiles? Do the planes get 1 chance/turn? Do they take damage when intercepting missiles? What about SAMs? How many can they intercept per turn? How many missiles would it take to kill a SAM?

Based on those answers, I should be able to figure out how many gpt would be needed to counter that many missiles. The missiles are one-shot, so there's the guesstimate part of the strategy on how many counter units to build (vs. how many are going to die when they launch the attack).

 

[doktorstick]

i have a serious bug, i can't use GS, already happened in 2 different games
Basically i don't see the left bar, except the delete unit .-.
I don't have any other UI mod except balance combined

What version are you using? There was a GS problem until .19 or so (though, it didn't manifest as how you described). Did you delete your cache/ directory when you've upgraded the balanced mods?

 

[Txurce]

What are the mechanics of intercepting missiles? Do the planes get 1 chance/turn? Do they take damage when intercepting missiles? What about SAMs? How many can they intercept per turn? How many missiles would it take to kill a SAM?

Based on those answers, I should be able to figure out how many gpt would be needed to counter that many missiles. The missiles are one-shot, so there's the guesstimate part of the strategy on how many counter units to build (vs. how many are going to die when they launch the attack).

I've built no more than three SAM's total and never had one fire, so I'm looking forward to all the answers!

 

[Thalassicus]

Remember let's try to keep this thread for bug reports, missiles are more of a balance topic.

The trade route thing is a vanilla game bug.

Guided missiles have Evasion. I'll reduce it so they take more interception damage. One reason I favor bombers over missiles is to stop a missile it must be fully killed the turn it attacks. Bombers aren't expended and have lower strength, so after 1-2 turns their HP is low enough they have to stop for repairs.

Oh, good job on the land unit diversification, Thal. They have a good mix of units at my borders.

Glad to hear it! Land balance was my first priority, and sea to a lesser extent. Now I'm focusing on air balance.

In .21 beta I've included the FlagPromotions mod by Erendir and xienwolf as part of the Unofficial Patch. It modifies some of the same files as Alpaca/Seek's mod and Cope's so it can't be easily used independently. I'm including it because like with the other things in the unofficial patch, I feel it's something that should be in the core game -- it's cumbersome to check promotions otherwise (especially enemies in wartime).

• Only shows most important promotions (which can be customized).
• Show/hide from Map Options button near the minimap.
• Right-click the map option to customize.
• Mouse over icons for tooltips.
• Icons don't interfere with unit selection.
• Units with more than 9 distinct, important promotion classes will display just the first 9 (this is rare with default settings).
• Icons are sharper ingame than this screenshot (vBulletin auto-compresses images).

 

[doktorstick]

I can post wherever. Do you want the missile discussion about beta in balanced combat or beta general? If you have the power to move the posts, that's cool too.

• Can be checked on/off under Map Options near the minimap.

Eww, off by default I hope!

 

[Thalassicus]

This is a good place for the missile discussion: link

I find the promotion display very useful in wartime because otherwise it's difficult to know which promotions enemy units have without hovering over each one and looking at the combat odds panel (even then what's one golden triangle over another?). Still, it's a matter of personal preference and easily disabled it if you decide you don't want it.

Edit: Based on your feedback, I put in a few more hours' work to make the icons blend in better with the rest of the UI. I removed the square backgrounds, added a subtle drop shadow, reduced opacity slightly, and moved them just above the unit icon. Hopefully they look better now.

 

[doktorstick]

That looks nice! Much better

 

[Gamewizard]

Hello Thal, your mod is great and have been using it for over a month now. You clearly have skill my friend!

Anyways, I've been having a problem with many of your beta builds concerning conquering. After conquering a city, the city loses 2 pop but when entering the city view screen, the # of citizens working tiles is always 2 more than it says it should. Also, if a puppet puts a citizen into a merchant slot, the slot doesn't light up to indicate so, but the city is receiving GPP so I'm assuming there is actually one in there.

Concerning .20 build (also the first game I tried the Flag Promos mod), I was about to attack a Companion Cavalry and I noticed in the combat preview window that it was receiving a -10% defensive bonus for being in flat land.

Same game, my first Great Scientist had no bulbing option, however it could build the academy.

The mods I use are:
Thals Balance Mods - Combined (v 2)
AI Equalizer (v 2)
Better Japanese City Names (v 1)
CivWillard (v 1)
FlagPromotions (v 2)
Free-Research Balance Mod (v 2.1)
Hover Info (v 1)
InfoAddict (v 10)
Specialized Barbarian Units (v 2)

Thanks, keep up the excellent work!