Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by superslug, Feb 26, 2006.
Ok, here is my legendary city; however, the launch date is aweful!
1816, in a game that can only be described as "highly flawed".
I think I have the strategy down now.
What leader are you using Bill?
I have played with a couple, Vicky for the health, Qin for the wonder increase, lizzie for the GP, and Cat for the scout and early culture expansion
I am going with either Qin or Lizzie right now. Not sure which though. I am cottage spamming, then converting to watermills later. With the right start I think I could break 1800, but right now I am around 1850.
Elizibeth. Hands-down the best choice. Qin is the only one who comes close to competing.. but with the right start, the Industrial trait is rendered irrelevant.
Expansive is nice, but in the end its just too weak. Player intelligence overwhelms its bonus. Creative is a non-bonus here; it just doesn't matter. Spiritual will save you around ~6 turns over someone who's playing smart, which doesn't come close to the bonus of Financial or Philosophical.
I'm about ready to dump Liz. She will only work if you have stone and/or marble. I had an amazing start with her and still could not beat 1755 (because I had no stone). I got 1790 with her. But, yah, if you hold out for that stone/marble start, she's the best.
I'm getting better. 1900 AD this time.
I think the western mountains in Great Plains are pretty consistently full of late resources and other goodies as well. And what's the problem with being in a corner?
IMO it doesn't allow you to fully expand your borders. One of the problems with OCC games (typically) is the lack of resources. You have a higher chance of getting a resource the more tiles you control. By being in a corner you are lowering your amount of land tiles, therefore less chance of a resource. After looking at your game, I'd say you got really lucky with resources.
I am stupid. Just played another game, again on noble. Noticed in Hall of Fame, again. I was completely confident that I changed the difficulty level. No comment.
Elizabeth, 1852, Great Plains, 11 AI.
I gifted Saladin 10+ techs and a worker to build a damn mine on another of those 4 aluminium hills.
Techs: early pottery, writing, alphabet, math, literature, currency, col, civil service, philosophy, etc.
Wonders: Pyramids and Great Library
Small wonders: National Epic, Oxfort University, Ironworks
Civics: Representation, Bureaucracy, Caste, Free Market -> Enviro, Pacifism
Great People: final GPP 1915/2400, I don't know how many people is it.
i have used 3 different leaders on this gauntlet, saladin, liz and mansa. it doesnt matter who i use or if i spam cottages or farms or some combo or both. on the surface it seems like the strategies are radically different. however, my launch times are approx. all the same. 1862-1870 or so. why is this? i noticed on gauntlet 4 also. are there underlying principles that we develop individually as civ players that we ram down whatever leaders throat that we choose? subtle things that might be more important than obvious strategies.
does it really come down to starting location? because that is one thing im not that particular about. i probably figure incorrectly that every starting position within reason is as good as any other. like who knows if you are going to get aluminum?
has anyone else expierenced anything like this?
1892 so far. A few observations (playing Liz or Qin on Great Plains).
The most important strategic resource is Coal, not Aluminium. It works for railroads and Ironworks. Iron is about as important as Aluminium, for the same reason.
The limiting factor throughout the game until very late is science. Cottages are better than the specialists due to Bureaucracy, but since there is only limited amount of them, the specialists are equally important.
If I don't have stone within 3 tiles, I skip the Pyramids. I tend to skip the Oracle as well, since I prefer Scientists over Priests. With the Oracle, I am almost guaranteeed to get 2 or 3 Priests.
I do not build the Globe Theatre until very late, for the same reason.
I prioritize Metal Casting (Forges) and Monotheism (for Organized Religion), since with both of them, the forest chopping becomes a way more effective. I have not decided yet, whether it is better to get them before Great Library, or after. Monotheism seems to be worth having ASAP, there is a good chance to found Judaism, and an additional religion with Monastery (+10% research) and temple +1 happy does not hurt.
I normally chop rush GL -> Aqueduct -> Hanging Gardens -> University -> Oxford -> Observatory (until I run out of forests). After that I switch to Pacifism.
I tend to develop Medicine after Biology, for Environmentalism + Hospital + Red Cross (for 1 GP point + increased chance of Great Scientist).
Liz seems to be the best choice.
To avoid possible attacks, I put some 4 Axes (Maces -> Redcoats -> Infantry -> Mechs) at the borders of my empire close to enemy cities. This way I can keep only 2 or 3 units in the capital. Otherwise, I am constantly attacked (with maces/ keshiks/ cats) even if I have like 10 infantries stationed in the city.
Well, considering this was a) my first gauntlet, b) my first OCC, c) one of my
first played-through single-player (I usually only do multiplayer), I didn't do too bad. I got my spaceship win in 2021 ad. Crappy by your standards maybe, but fine by me
I played Qin Shi Huangdi, Chinese, Financial and Industrious. I'd say he's a good choice for OCC's, since Creative, Spiritual or Organized won't do you much good here. Plus, He starts with Irrigation and Mining.
My strategy was simple. Religion- and Wonder-hogging. Since both Khan's don't start with mystic, and my third selected opponent Elizabeth wouldn't either (I took her because she's financial too, so she's able to keep up with me in tech for quite a while), I knew I'd get at least Hinduism, perhaps even both.
My tech choices were Mystic, Animal Husbandry (to connects the pigs next to my city), then going straight for Hinduism/Buddhism.
As you can see in the first screenshot, the only health resource visible(and
available) was pigs, and this didn't change for a long time. But since the location was full of hills and river(and gold), I played on regardless. But that meant I had to keep the forests around my capital for extra health, costing me a lot of commerce and by this, easily a century of turns at the end. Next time, I will go for more commerce and less production.
Elizabeth settled early at my borders, in the vain hope of cutting me off copper. She soon had to give more and more land back. But she pissed me off and began to demand things. Since Genghis was getting restless, too, I got him to declare on her. She lost a city, never really recovering.
Meanwhile, I had netted almost all ancient wonders (except for Lighthouse and Colossus for obvious reasons) and got all seven world religions, which not really helped in the research department that much as I'd thought, but got me a better reputation with all my fellow believers.
Whenever between two wonders I upgraded my military. None of my rivals ever declared war on me, and whenever they unnerved me, I tossed out a bucket of gold to one of them for declaring war on the rest of them. Worked like a charm, until about the end. I was midway through industrialization when Kublai got Riflemen and almost wiped out England. So Genghis, just entering his golden age, was asked to declare on Kublai. As seen on the power chart, the result was impressive. England continued to lose cities, but only because she was so hellbent to settle on my ever expanding borders.
Then Genghis declared on Liz, and since this was a wonderful example of symmetry, he got his ass kicked by Kublai(cost about 3000 gold). Meanwhile, I laughed and built spaceship parts. Kublai got to the first two parts in the end, but that was about it.
Screenshot 2021 AD:
Map (2021 AD):
Things I'd do again:
-Playing on Balanced, Pangaea
-Choosing Elizabeth as non-aggressive opponent
-Qin is really good for OCC, as said above
-Staying on Pacifism until the end (the 10% science isn't worth wasting two or three Great People)
-leaving out only the great artist wonders. Build everything else.
-sic one Khan on another, lather, rinse, repeat. Don't let them get wiped out, if possible.
Things I'll try to avoid/change next time:
-forgetting about Bureaucracy's obvious advantage for far too long (D'oh!)
-getting more rivals so I don't have to research alone after astronomy (maybe Mansa Musa or Roosevelt)
-playing a start point which so obviously lacks health resources.
-stop hoping I have aluminium. In my experience, you never ever have aluminium inside your legendary borders.
-Don't waste my time with Statue of Liberty, or Mass Media
-Building the Oracle later for more expensive techs
I will play at least one more of these if time allows. Let's see if I can at least
drop beyond 1900 AD with a better starting location. Wish me luck.
Bah... I had a near-flawless game, but still only managed to launch in 1800.
It appears I must rethink my fundimental strategy.
1852 back to farming 4 digit science w/no cottages. I was runnin about 850 without starving
My first run through was a launch in the mid 1900s with Quin. My start position lacked enough health resources. I also did not have coal, iron, or aluminum in my cultural borders.
I tried grabbing a bunch of religions but I do not think that is the best way to go as I never adopted a religion. By staying neutral as far as religion goes, I was able to keep everyone happy and only have my starting warrior for defence. No wasted turns building a military force.
I am switching of to Lizzie as I belive GP are going to be very important. I also need to refine my tech path. I have tried a few new starts but have not got a starting position I liked yet.
EDIT L was misinformed
1858 with Lizzy on great plains, no stone, no alu, had marble, iron and coal though.
Huge progress considering my very first try was 2030 smth. You really learn a lot with these gauntlets
Have one question about HOF rules, they say that any map type is allowed, does it mean that I can use custom maps as well? I have modded balanced to allow marble, would love to play on that.
Any of the game's provided maptypes are allowed. Modding is not permitted.
1826 finish, Qin, Great Plains (east side). No aluminum, but I did have 2 corn, 2 grassland/forest deer, marble - 28 pop total in the city. I also had coal in the cultural radius. Production and research were pretty well balanced; I got Fusion about 10 turns before I finished the last spaceship piece. I'm having a hard time seeing how I can do better without aluminum.
I did not emphasize early religion - Hunting/BW/Pottery/Writing early, then I snagged Judaism, Pyramids, Great Library/Globe Theatre, etc. Most specialists were scientists, but I did have a few great artists, etc. in the midgame.
Too bad. Really love balanced map, especially for OCC, but there is no marble.
All I did in Balanced.py was to change the line
resourcesToEliminate = ('BONUS_MARBLE', 'BONUS_OIL') to
resourcesToEliminate = ('BONUS_OIL')
and now one source of marble appears on the map.
The strange thing is that I've never seen marble in balanced but oil almost always appears although both are eliminated, maybe i should dig deeper into map scripts.
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