Better RoM: Resources Axing

[os79]

This is a tentative first post.

It will go two directions...

#1 Most people agree that there are just too many resources that mess up map making. So we discuss what reources to crop out of RoM:AND.
Be warned, it will cost a massive time of searching down xml files that refer to these resources and eliminate their references.

#2 Leave the resources as is and accept that you will be faced with extremely rare resource and NEVER AGAIN COMPLAIN TO AFFORESS ABOUT RARE RESOURCES AGAIN!!!

I want to get this topic out there and then worked on OR pushed aside FOREVER because 1.74 will be a final version for new stuff.

Opinions?

 

[dudeSDCA]

I really liked the route that some of the modders were going with buildings that provided specific resources (e.g., glassware, pottery, etc.). Maybe it's possible to have a few of the resources get converted to special buildings?

Another option: instead of cow pasture, sheep pasture, pig pasture (etc), you could instead have it be a pasture resource, and you could build a cow, sheep, horse, or pig pasture on that land (giving you resource control).

If you don't like that idea, here's a few resources I don't care much for (option 1):
- Lead
- Silk
- Sugar
- Dye
- Potatoes
- Sulphur

 

[Afforess]

IMHO, rare resources make the game interesting.

 

[climat]

Personally I like more and more.
There are components which enable players to plant crops(corn, wheat, rice, potato) and raise animals(cow, pig, sheep, horse, deer, even elephant).
If we introduce these, the most important thing will be how we prevent abusing.
Other ideas..
Sea resources culturing/farming in later eras.
Extracting Salt from the sea.
We can do without Lead and Obsidian, don't we?

 

[Afforess]

Allowing resources to be actively placed via workers would be impossible to balance.

Honestly, I don't see the issue with some resources being rare; it forces strategy.

 

[AngelusDD]

The resources are fine in general,

but what is a bit weird is to have the national wonders, which give resources like the brewery, rubber factory, fertilizer plant etc. to have produce 7 items of it.
that quickly produces overflow of these resources on the world market.

solution a:
why not have them produce 3 pieces only or so? so we still could sell to the smaller civ´s, and yet not flood the market.

solution b:
having them produced by the same principle like glassware, pottery or steel. 1 piece per normal building.

btw: a synthetic dye plant would be nice...or synthetic oil plants...

 

[NBAfan]

Honestly, I don't see the issue with some resources being rare; it forces strategy.

I agree.

 

[vincentz]

Axe Lead or change it.
In general the resources that brings unhappiness/unhealth are useless as they cannot be traded effeciently, so instead make a building with same effect would leave empty resource spots.

 

[Afforess]

Resource spots aren't needed though; I fixed the resource limit in the beta's. Did you read the post about it?

 

[os79]

OK, the wind seems to be blowing to leaving the resources as is. We already know that a forum member, forgot his name, did some work on bonusinfos.xml and Afforess incorporated it. Also, Afforess worked on the mapscripts in a recent beta. Therefore, barring any Afforess' interest in above-mentioned suggestions, it is best that we make some type of announcement, FAQ maybe?, about accepting rare resource, even horses as a price of a big modpack like Rise of Mankind.

 

[Killtech]

Allowing resources to be actively placed via workers would be impossible to balance.

Honestly, I don't see the issue with some resources being rare; it forces strategy.

there are many balancing concepts i can think of to prevent imbalance. so the question is rather to what ending - i can point a way once that is clear.

there is an animal placement mod around. i've made some changes for it to resources, improvements and buildings stats to keep it on a balanced level. the effect was that these original resources became somewhat like an improvement that is not unlocked via a technology but access to a resources. and it can be spread via workers, trade or conquest. it wasn't in anyway unbalanced (except for the fact of AI that did not understand it). so you see there are ways to deal with that.

as it is the resource system works quite weird. the health and happiness boni from resources are currently totally unbounded and there is no concept behind these anyway. it seems no one ever considered which impact they might have on the game. unmovable/spread able natural resources like cattle are totally unrealistic and unintuitive. the quantity of resources of RoM compared to vanilla show this design flaw even more. it's just that after a certain point the strategy ends and the excess begins.

if there would only be 5 different resources this might work. but there are too many, too many to even try to axing them.

though the idea of resources in civilization is nice i find it poorly designed.

 

[Afforess]

I like the way resources will be in Civ5; where only 1 resource will can build X number of units, etc... I'd rewrite them that way for AND if it wasn't so close already.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

solution b:
having them produced by the same principle like glassware, pottery or steel. 1 piece per normal building.

This was the way it started out. Then they became 5 of the same national wonder producing 1 resource each. then they became a national wonder producing 7. the aluminium factory is an example of one which has not (yet) finished evolving

I like the way resources will be in Civ5; where only 1 resource will can build X number of units, etc... I'd rewrite them that way for AND if it wasn't so close already.

There was a mod in vanillia Civ IV (or was it Civ III) which did this. It did not work out well, but that could have been because of unlimited stack size.

 

[The Exile]

I like the resources as they are now. Makes for a much more customizable empire. Forces you to adapt your strategy if you're missing a needed resource. I find that fun.

 

[dudeSDCA]

I did notice that a number of folks said to axe lead...any reason to keep it in?

 

[AngelusDD]

has it any use besides allowing construction of Nuclear Powerplants?

btw i had recently a game where i couldnt build such because a huge map had only 2 lead for 20 or so civs

 

[generalstaff]

Honestly, I don't see the issue with some resources being rare; it forces strategy.

Agreed also.

Rare resources are also of historical value (Tea is the biggest one which comes to mind).

Lead, I have no problem with. I like the fact that it is needed for Nuclear Plants and gives Health at Hospitals (lead shielding for proper X-Rays). It also gives a construction bonus to Musketmen. The only editing Lead needs is to be one of the "metal" resources for the Filling Factory; of course this is such a minor issue since seriously, who has access to Sulphur, but not Iron, Steel, or Copper?

The only resource which desperately needed nixing was Wool, an that has been done already.

Of course, there are two resources which do have major issues, and one which has a minor issue. Geothermal Energy and Methane Ice were included by Zappara, and give big local production bonuses, but have no other major use. I have no idea what should be done here. Also, Semiconductors are needed for many things, but are only available through the Silicon Valley Great Wonder. That seems a little unbalancing.

 

[Justin Cray]

option two, never had problems

 

[Killtech]

I like the way resources will be in Civ5; where only 1 resource will can build X number of units, etc... I'd rewrite them that way for AND if it wasn't so close already.

yes, for strategic resources this system will be much better and will make trading more interesting. however it will require much more available resource sources to work properly. let's see if they find the right balance.

but this system is for strategic resources only. i hope they find a better system for other resources then the current one.

 

[0100010]

I use an altered bonus info file to create a more realistic resource distribution, and I almost never have missing resources, even on smaller maps.