Between Emperor and Immortal?

[Stringer1313]

Are settings you would recommend that would make the game harder than Emperor but easier than Immortal?

Just to give the base line: I usually play on Continent / Continent + Island maps, Standard speed, and Standard/Large maps. With those settings, I find Emperor way too easy and Immortal way too hard. Thanks!

 

[Bibor]

Play immortal but pick a leader that you feel really comfortable with in the early game.

 

[Archon_Wing]

IMO they're basically the same difficulty. It's the same difference between Prince and King

The exceptions are of a higher chance of an early attack, wonders are harder to build and city states being harder to take. Doing CS quests and quick use of Amani is more important. Other than that, build more units early and don't focus so much on wonders.

 

[Kotofei]

I had the same complaint. You're better off trying to dumb down the harder difficulty. Play a strong civ, choose wet rainfall to give you more chops, weaker civs as opponents, and re-roll your start until it's JUST RIGHT.

What I REALLY want is a "Treacherous AI" option, to make it like Civ 5.

 

[AntSou]

With those settings, I find Emperor way too easy and Immortal way too hard.

Be aware that on Immortal it might take you longer to catch up, but you may still do.

What I mean is, have you finished an Immortal game? Because their Classical/Medieval advantage used to slow down considerably by the Renaissance. The AI is more competent now though, so I'm not sure myself.

What I used to do to make Immortal harder since I didn't like the 3-Settler start the AI got in Deity was to:

- Never sell Diplo;
- Never sell strats, though you may buy or give for free;
- Always trade 1 for 1 luxuries, that is, you may never receive Gold from duplicates;
- Always provide Open Borders when requesting Open Borders.

So you could apply those to Emperor and see how it goes.

Edit: For any other deal with the AI, ask yourself: "Is this a deal I would accept if I were in their situation?"

When the answer is "no", don't offer the deal.

 

[Mahi]

On immortal start of with smaller maps than large and play one continent only. Large maps tends to allow the AI to become runaways.

 

[Siddharth Venkatesh]

Play Emperor on Quick or Online. Faster speeds tend to make the game harder, especially if you war extensively. Mistakes get punished harder since each turn is so much more valuable.

 

[greenOak]

On immortal start of with smaller maps than large and play one continent only. Large maps tends to allow the AI to become runaways.

The AI is incapable of running away in civ 6. Even the largest empires on deity just sputter out in the mid-late game. IMO maps with lots of open space are easier to play because you're less likely to get declared on in the first 50 turns.

A question for the OP: What part of immortal are you finding difficult? Is it getting declared on early? Is it falling too far behind? It's impossible to give good advice and/or suggestions without further details.

 

[Stringer1313]

The AI is incapable of running away in civ 6. Even the largest empires on deity just sputter out in the mid-late game. IMO maps with lots of open space are easier to play because you're less likely to get declared on in the first 50 turns.

A question for the OP: What part of immortal are you finding difficult? Is it getting declared on early? Is it falling too far behind? It's impossible to give good advice and/or suggestions without further details.

Thx for the suggestions all. So I have played immortal twice (once on large map, then once on standard map) and I actually do play until the very end. First game, AI won science, second game AI won culture (I stupidly wasn't monitoring culture at all and the win came out of nowhere).

I find immortal difficult because of AI snowballing - namely, the AI on other continents. I recognize that on higher levels you have to conquer your neighbors to stand a chance, and I do do that as soon as I can and can do so with medium difficulty - the main barrier is when they jump ahead in tech. Having said that I can never conquer my entire continent until Atomic/Info age and by then AI is snowballing. However, when I do this strategy in Emperor, it is a total cakewalk. (However now that I type this out, I realize AI emphasizes science more so maybe I should give Emperor another try.)

I am somewhere between casual and hardcore; I don't do a lot of early planning "beelines" - I emphasize military early game and don't start investing domestically until renaissance / industrial by which point I think I'm too late to catch up.

 

[MrRadar]

Thx for the suggestions all. So I have played immortal twice (once on large map, then once on standard map) and I actually do play until the very end. First game, AI won science, second game AI won culture (I stupidly wasn't monitoring culture at all and the win came out of nowhere).

Out of interest - what turn AI won those victories? (Standard speed?) I still find I can get an uncomplicated diplo victory before t300 (standard speed/size) on Deity as a shortcut out of the game, if I botch everything else, with no planning and even without building specific wonders, purely by guessing votes (no reloads, ofc) and winning scored competitions. And before this turn mark, Deity AI must have an exceptionally good run to pose even a shadow of threat to win.

 

[kaspergm]

Play immortal but pick classical era start. This eliminates much of the advantage the AI has on highest levels, because you will get some free units and cheaper districts. In fact, Immortal + classical era start may be easier than Emperor + ancient era start.

 

[UWHabs]

I find it's useful sometimes to just play through the first era or so and think about your situation. Sometimes getting more experience on those early starts will let you figure out where you might be going wrong.

Otherwise, as people have mentioned, picking a better civ can help you get familiar, and then it just takes some time and practice to learn how to handle the early game, and then turn that to your advantage.

Immortal you have to be careful about the early DoW from the AI. Almost always someone will declare on you, so I find the hardest part sometimes is trying to balance having a defensive force while also expanding, and also being able to get down some campuses and such for teching out.

 

[Stringer1313]

Out of interest - what turn AI won those victories? (Standard speed?) I still find I can get an uncomplicated diplo victory before t300 (standard speed/size) on Deity as a shortcut out of the game, if I botch everything else, with no planning and even without building specific wonders, purely by guessing votes (no reloads, ofc) and winning scored competitions. And before this turn mark, Deity AI must have an exceptionally good run to pose even a shadow of threat to win.

Hm I don't remember what turn, but we were definitely in the Information Era. So diplo wasn't an option for me because I did such a good job conquering other AI capitals that I was always in negative diplo favor...

 

[qhash]

I disagree with the statement that the transistion from King to Emporor is the same as from Emperor to Immortal. The latter one has the biggest leap in difficulty, especially at the very begging of the game, as AI settler bonus gives puts a player in a great disadvantage, which is far greater that the one on Emperor.

 

[Kotofei]

I disagree with the statement that the transistion from King to Emporor is the same as from Emperor to Immortal. The latter one has the biggest leap in difficulty, especially at the very begging of the game, as AI settler bonus gives puts a player in a great disadvantage, which is far greater that the one on Emperor.

Yup. I was in the same boat as the OP. I mastered Emperor pretty quickly and then Immortal was OMGWTF!!! After a few months of getting better at city and great people management and feeling out the AI personalities, Immortal felt like Emperor used to, and I recently moved up to playing Deity with favorable settings.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I disagree with the statement that the transistion from King to Emporor is the same as from Emperor to Immortal. The latter one has the biggest leap in difficulty, especially at the very begging of the game, as AI settler bonus gives puts a player in a great disadvantage, which is far greater that the one on Emperor.

Both difficulties have 1 extra settler.

 

[AlannaT]

I recognize that on higher levels you have to conquer your neighbors to stand a chance, and I do do that as soon as I can and can do so with medium difficulty - the main barrier is when they jump ahead in tech.

I know people take this as gospel, but that's not always true. Sometimes conquest is the way to go, but if war takes too long, causes too much war weariness, or diverts your focus too much, you are way better off to adjust your goals.
Even if war is declared on you, it's in my opinion often better to either just stand your ground, pillage what you can and take a sweet peace deal or just quickly take one city (loyalty allowing) and stop there.

Players have the tendency to become too stuck on certain objectives, e. g. ancient era, unsurprising surprise war coming in, they defend successfully, they go on the offensive, everything goes well, but then enemy walls and/or crossbows show up. In those situations it's often better to peace out with a good deal instead of just investing more and more into a conquest, which will probably succeed at some point but at too high a cost. I think, people often forget, that a peace deal only lasts for 10 turns, which means you can make peace, focus on infrastructure, get some key techs or a great general, and attack again at a better time - maybe as a joint war or with an emergency backing you up.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I'm curious what game modes you might be using..? I've played a couple of Dramatic Ages games lately, and they're much easier because the AI can't deal. The AI generally gets alternating Golden and Dark Ages: Golden Classical, Dark Medieval, Golden Renaissance, etc. If you're able to get a Golden Medieval Era, and get on the opposite schedule - when you have a Golden Age, they have a Dark Age - you can simply wtfpn the AI with Loyalty Pressure and by capturing cities in revolt, which generates no Grievances (that's basically an exploit, and they need to fix it soon - I don't know if the AI even recognize their former cities as having once belonged to them). I play on Emperor, btw, with big maps and longer game speeds.

I also recommend looking into mods that might tweak the game around the edges. Sometimes a little thing can make a big difference. A lot of mods are purely aesthetic, but I use some that impact gameplay (links to Steam Workshop pages):

1. Free Walls for City States can slow down aggressive Civs, particularly in the early game.
2. I use Extended Eras for the increased verisimilitude (thanks to @pokiehl for the tip), but it also helps keep the AI from running away in technology and increases the effective 'shelf-life' of my military units (and because I'm better at waging wars than the AI, particularly in keeping my units alive and earning promotions, this greatly benefits me over the AI in the long run).

I think those are the two I use that have the biggest impact on gameplay, but some of the UI mods can also be a big help, even if they don't change anything in the game: Community Quick User Interface; Global Relations Panel. There are lots. You'd have to find the ones that help you shore up your weaknesses. Like, for me, anything that helps me win wars against the AI isn't all that helpful, but Policy Change Reminder is a friggin' Godsend.

Finally, go ahead and regenerate the game/map if it looks like a poor start or it just isn't what you're looking for. Sometimes I get a good game purely at random.

 

[Stringer1313]

Hi everyone I appreciate all the responses to this thread. I took folks' advice and it does look like I'm about to win my first Immortal game! (I appreciate the advice to use mods but I am a stubborn purist and don't use them.)

Here were my settings, which made Immortal easier:
- Inland Sea (so, one land mass like someone suggested)
- Epic speed
- Dramatic Age (like ppl said, this considerably weakens AI)
- Standard size
- Simon Bolivar
- Heroes & Legends

Basically I warmongered and took over Civs as fast as I possibly could until I had more cities than anyone and then snowballed. Someone said it's actually possible to win on higher difficulties without conquering neighbors??? I simply don't see how that's possible...

 

[EgonSpengler]

(I appreciate the advice to use mods but I am a stubborn purist and don't use them.)

I'm the opposite. I wouldn't play vanilla Civ if you paid me. Of all of the mods I use, I think Community Quick User Interface is the one I simply won't play without. It's superior in every way. I don't even want to list a few examples of what it does, because someone might think it's a comprehensive, or even representative, list of its features. When Civ releases a new DLC, I'll wait a few days for the CQUI folks to update their mod rather than use the vanilla game's UI.



(Well, okay, maybe if you paid me, I would.)