BGZ01 - Builder's Game - Warlord
- Thread starter BotlGnomz
- Start date
Panth
Prince
Okay. I just wanted to get a bead on where we were headed. I don't really know how the diplo win works in IV as I haven't yet ever had a game where anybody built the UN. We would seem to be a shoo-in for space race at this point with our huge tech lead over 2 of them and prduction capability.
BotlGnomz
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 160
I won my first game via Diplo.
See Sullla's walkthrough at http://civ4info.com/Sullla/civ4.html where he shows the world how to win with the UN.
See Sullla's walkthrough at http://civ4info.com/Sullla/civ4.html where he shows the world how to win with the UN.
Panth
Prince
Interesting. Thanks for that link.
Our pop should be huge, and Cy is pretty happy with us thusfar (although he'd probably be our opponent.) We might want to pick one of those little backwards civs to be our "friend."
Our pop should be huge, and Cy is pretty happy with us thusfar (although he'd probably be our opponent.) We might want to pick one of those little backwards civs to be our "friend."
Panth
Prince
Population, probably. Last I checked it was ~50%. We need a certain land percentage too though which, even if we fill in our northern areas, I'm not sure we'd hit without taking somebody out. Might be close though.
Oh wait . . .you're talking for vote purposes, not domination. Well, like I said, we're around 50% now and can probably put up another 8-10 cities without much problem. 2-3 on our direct northcoast; 4-6 on the NE penninsula; 2-3 on the NW penninsula. Plus a possible other SE one and we could even slap one in on our East coast by that cow as a mostly fishing/ship city.
Our rivals, on the other hand, are rapidly running out of expansion room and will probably not get more than a couple more cities each. And that south pole region is NOT going to get real populous anyway.
Oh wait . . .you're talking for vote purposes, not domination. Well, like I said, we're around 50% now and can probably put up another 8-10 cities without much problem. 2-3 on our direct northcoast; 4-6 on the NE penninsula; 2-3 on the NW penninsula. Plus a possible other SE one and we could even slap one in on our East coast by that cow as a mostly fishing/ship city.
Our rivals, on the other hand, are rapidly running out of expansion room and will probably not get more than a couple more cities each. And that south pole region is NOT going to get real populous anyway.
BotlGnomz
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 160
Yeah. I think that if we sit tight and don't get conquered, we have the game in the bag.
What this game really shows is that an aggressive landgrab is still a viable strategy in Civ4 for Organized civs. If you can consolidate it and cut off your rivals, you just get so ahead that you can't help but win.
What this game really shows is that an aggressive landgrab is still a viable strategy in Civ4 for Organized civs. If you can consolidate it and cut off your rivals, you just get so ahead that you can't help but win.
Panth
Prince
Well, to be fair, I think that popping 2 settlers very early is what put us where we are now. But yes, large civs are very feasible in this game so long as you don't expand too rapidly and keep your workcrews up with city growth. Yes, each city has a maintenence fee attached to it, but so long as that city makes enough to cover that fee, you're cool.
The problem with very rapid expansion, or taking over another civ with small cities, or something similar, is that those cities take awhile to build up to the point where they are covering their own expenses so that in the meantime they are just idly costing a fortune.
We're doing pretty well here although we could still probably use a few more workers. Our NE cities need a lot of work, we still have quite a bit of work to do in the West, and with new cities due, we are going to start falling behind if we don't boost the workforce a bit. I'd like to see us be able to hit 90-100% science rate and I think it's possible with more rapid improvements.
One other thing I'd like to mention: if we're not going cultural, I vote that any specialist we have should be scientists so that we can plop down academies in every possible city (starting with the biggest, of course.)
The problem with very rapid expansion, or taking over another civ with small cities, or something similar, is that those cities take awhile to build up to the point where they are covering their own expenses so that in the meantime they are just idly costing a fortune.
We're doing pretty well here although we could still probably use a few more workers. Our NE cities need a lot of work, we still have quite a bit of work to do in the West, and with new cities due, we are going to start falling behind if we don't boost the workforce a bit. I'd like to see us be able to hit 90-100% science rate and I think it's possible with more rapid improvements.
One other thing I'd like to mention: if we're not going cultural, I vote that any specialist we have should be scientists so that we can plop down academies in every possible city (starting with the biggest, of course.)
Mike Lemmer
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2005
- Messages
- 340
Too bad huts only pop settlers in the easiest 3 difficulties. Noble+, they don't. Anyway, I'll have a report up Thursday.
KabeDerlin
Prince
Guh! Oh my friggin god, I hate my computer. I'm probably going to have to reformat. Sorry guys, I'm using a friends computer to get this message to you. It may be some time before I can get back in this game. If you wanna just find someone else to take my spot I won't mind.
This is rediculous...
This is rediculous...
Panth
Prince
Bummer, Kabe. Hope you get it worked out.
BG, are we going you, me, & Mike till Kabe is back or picking somebody else up?
BG, are we going you, me, & Mike till Kabe is back or picking somebody else up?
KabeDerlin
Prince
Guh, I think my harddrive has just lost it. Tomorrow, I'm going to go buy another one (long overdue anyways). Hopefully I can get through reloading windows and installing everything and be back in pretty soon.
Once again, I'm sorry.
Once again, I'm sorry.
Mike Lemmer
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2005
- Messages
- 340
Okay. I don't think you need to update us anymore on your computer's status unless it's fixed or blows up. We'll carry on without ye.
Mike Lemmer
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2005
- Messages
- 340
1310 AD:
Genghis Khan, our sworn enemy, asks us for help attacking the beloved Persians. Does he really think we'll help him? Just look at our relation scores! +/-/-/-/-/-... I deny him and we add another -.
1320 AD:
Machinery learned. Researching Engineering to build the Hagia Sophia.
Versailles built. Our GPT jumps from +1 to +9.
Imhotep (Great Engineer) built in Neapolis! I put him to sleep there until we get Machinery to jumpstart the Hagia Sophia.
Our attack Praetorian by Zapotec is ready to conquer the city, but he took quite a beating in the last turn & I need him fit for attack. So I group him with the Explorer & move them both into the forest. Once he's rested (and Zapotec grows to 2), we'll be ready!
1330 AD:
Colossus built!
We need to catch up on a few techs we've left behind, so I trade with Cyrus: Divine Right for Feudalism & Horseback Riding.
1340 AD:
Spiral Minaret built! Finanaces leap to +28 GPT.
1350 AD:
Engineering learned, researching Guilds. We need Grocers to up our Health.
Cyrus steals Zapotec from under our noses with Immortals! Curse them!
I immediately start construction on the Hagia Sophia & use Imhotep to finish it in one turn! Bada boom!
1360 AD:
Angkor Wat built!
Hagia Sophia built!
Start building Chichen Itza in Antium.
1370 AD:
Velitrae founded on the northern coast!
1380 AD:
Guilds learned. Researching Banking.
1390 AD:
Viroconium founded just south of Rome! The elephants & hills will produce lots of hammers once the jungle's cleared out, and it's in a great position to culture bomb Lahore.
1400 AD:
Banking learned. Researching Printing Press.
Science increased to 90%.
NOTES:
Need farms around Ravenna to support the mines.
Last Settler heading to SE, preparing town to steal resources & culture bomb the lake. We'll have tense borders with Cyrus then, which will add a -1 to our relations.
In most of our large cities, health is the limiting factor. Build Grocers to increase it.
Back to you, Bottlz.
Genghis Khan, our sworn enemy, asks us for help attacking the beloved Persians. Does he really think we'll help him? Just look at our relation scores! +/-/-/-/-/-... I deny him and we add another -.
1320 AD:
Machinery learned. Researching Engineering to build the Hagia Sophia.
Versailles built. Our GPT jumps from +1 to +9.
Imhotep (Great Engineer) built in Neapolis! I put him to sleep there until we get Machinery to jumpstart the Hagia Sophia.
Our attack Praetorian by Zapotec is ready to conquer the city, but he took quite a beating in the last turn & I need him fit for attack. So I group him with the Explorer & move them both into the forest. Once he's rested (and Zapotec grows to 2), we'll be ready!
1330 AD:
Colossus built!
We need to catch up on a few techs we've left behind, so I trade with Cyrus: Divine Right for Feudalism & Horseback Riding.
1340 AD:
Spiral Minaret built! Finanaces leap to +28 GPT.
1350 AD:
Engineering learned, researching Guilds. We need Grocers to up our Health.
Cyrus steals Zapotec from under our noses with Immortals! Curse them!
I immediately start construction on the Hagia Sophia & use Imhotep to finish it in one turn! Bada boom!
1360 AD:
Angkor Wat built!
Hagia Sophia built!
Start building Chichen Itza in Antium.
1370 AD:
Velitrae founded on the northern coast!
1380 AD:
Guilds learned. Researching Banking.
1390 AD:
Viroconium founded just south of Rome! The elephants & hills will produce lots of hammers once the jungle's cleared out, and it's in a great position to culture bomb Lahore.
1400 AD:
Banking learned. Researching Printing Press.
Science increased to 90%.
NOTES:
Need farms around Ravenna to support the mines.
Last Settler heading to SE, preparing town to steal resources & culture bomb the lake. We'll have tense borders with Cyrus then, which will add a -1 to our relations.
In most of our large cities, health is the limiting factor. Build Grocers to increase it.
Back to you, Bottlz.
. After that experience, I want some nice relaxing Warlord.
BotlGnomz
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 160
1400 (0) Veto the path for the settler. We have no Great Artist nor are we likely to have one soon. The Culture Bomb is an invalid strategy here. Send the settler NE of its location.
1410 (1): We are the most cultured civ of the world. India wants Paper. Why the hell not? Relations go to Pleased. Arretium Christian Monastery --> Bank
1430 (3): Neapolis Grocer --> Bank. Arpinum Christian Monastery --> Bank. Circei Courthouse --> Harbor. Setia Islamic Monastery --> Market. Arden Granary --> Jewish Monastery.
1440 (4) Printing Press --> Economics. Satricum Courthouse --> Market. Arden Jewish Monastery --> Market. Found Tarentum, which begins a Forge.
1450 (5) Asoka wants to swap World Maps. Sure.
1460 (6) Economics --> replaceable parts. Revolt to Free Market. Antium Chichen Itza --> Aqueduct. Pisae Grocer --> Bank. Circei Harbor --> Library. Send Great Merchant to conduct a trade mission, which is the optimum balance of big city and mad far (it will arrive a few turns into the next player's turn). A great scientist has also been born in Rome and I'll build an academy once I figure out which city is producing the most beakers.
1470 (7) Anarchy ends and the Academy is put in Rome.
1480 (8) Ravenna something that I can't read but starts with a C and is therefore likely a Courthouse --> Market. Rome University --> Forge. We have SO LITTLE INFRASTRUCTURE IN ROME IT IS PATHETIC. WHERE IS THE COURTHOUSE? THE MARKET? GET THAT STUFF BUILT!
1490 (9) Antium Aqueduct --> Grocer. Cumae Monastery --> Grocer.
1500 (10) Neapolis Bank --> Synagogue. Arretium Bank --> Grover.
There are Barbs outside of Neapolis. I shifted a longbow out to intercept. If the Sword attacks, we probably win. If the sword does not attack and rather moves, attack and kill it, then promote to Shock to kill the axe for sure.
Genghis Khan canceled his Sugar deal when I wasn't looking and Neapolis lost a happy, ergo my build of the Synagogue.
With us running Organized Religion, why isn't Judaism in every city? We've been too focused on building marginal Wonders (I mean, really. Chichén Itzá?) and not on core infrastructure; Banks, Grocers, Aqueducts, A FORGE IN OUR GODDAMN CAPITAL, etc. We need to send out a slew of Jewish Missionaries, converting all of our cities, and then go hit up Asoka. First priority is Tarentum; all of its good tiles are in the first border expansion.
When the Great Merchant arrives, the mission should give us enough gold to run 100% sci for quite a while.
We need more workers too.
1410 (1): We are the most cultured civ of the world. India wants Paper. Why the hell not? Relations go to Pleased. Arretium Christian Monastery --> Bank
1430 (3): Neapolis Grocer --> Bank. Arpinum Christian Monastery --> Bank. Circei Courthouse --> Harbor. Setia Islamic Monastery --> Market. Arden Granary --> Jewish Monastery.
1440 (4) Printing Press --> Economics. Satricum Courthouse --> Market. Arden Jewish Monastery --> Market. Found Tarentum, which begins a Forge.
1450 (5) Asoka wants to swap World Maps. Sure.
1460 (6) Economics --> replaceable parts. Revolt to Free Market. Antium Chichen Itza --> Aqueduct. Pisae Grocer --> Bank. Circei Harbor --> Library. Send Great Merchant to conduct a trade mission, which is the optimum balance of big city and mad far (it will arrive a few turns into the next player's turn). A great scientist has also been born in Rome and I'll build an academy once I figure out which city is producing the most beakers.
1470 (7) Anarchy ends and the Academy is put in Rome.
1480 (8) Ravenna something that I can't read but starts with a C and is therefore likely a Courthouse --> Market. Rome University --> Forge. We have SO LITTLE INFRASTRUCTURE IN ROME IT IS PATHETIC. WHERE IS THE COURTHOUSE? THE MARKET? GET THAT STUFF BUILT!
1490 (9) Antium Aqueduct --> Grocer. Cumae Monastery --> Grocer.
1500 (10) Neapolis Bank --> Synagogue. Arretium Bank --> Grover.
There are Barbs outside of Neapolis. I shifted a longbow out to intercept. If the Sword attacks, we probably win. If the sword does not attack and rather moves, attack and kill it, then promote to Shock to kill the axe for sure.
Genghis Khan canceled his Sugar deal when I wasn't looking and Neapolis lost a happy, ergo my build of the Synagogue.
With us running Organized Religion, why isn't Judaism in every city? We've been too focused on building marginal Wonders (I mean, really. Chichén Itzá?) and not on core infrastructure; Banks, Grocers, Aqueducts, A FORGE IN OUR GODDAMN CAPITAL, etc. We need to send out a slew of Jewish Missionaries, converting all of our cities, and then go hit up Asoka. First priority is Tarentum; all of its good tiles are in the first border expansion.
When the Great Merchant arrives, the mission should give us enough gold to run 100% sci for quite a while.
We need more workers too.
Panth
Prince
Calm.
Breathe.
Chill.
Okay, we all better now? In 1460 we were heading for replaceable parts - one our rivals was just begging for paper and not long ago Ghengis was begging for priesthood which we've probably had a couple thousand years now. It ain't all bad.
1) Rome needs basic buildings; agreed.
2) I noted during my last set that we had 3 non-jewish cities. I'll try to get some missionaries out and about. I didn't notice any in yours or Mike's queues either though . . .
3) Where is the Merchant headed? You never said.
4) "Got it" should get 'er done tomorrow
Breathe.
Chill.
Okay, we all better now? In 1460 we were heading for replaceable parts - one our rivals was just begging for paper and not long ago Ghengis was begging for priesthood which we've probably had a couple thousand years now. It ain't all bad.
1) Rome needs basic buildings; agreed.
2) I noted during my last set that we had 3 non-jewish cities. I'll try to get some missionaries out and about. I didn't notice any in yours or Mike's queues either though . . .
3) Where is the Merchant headed? You never said.
4) "Got it" should get 'er done tomorrow
Panth
Prince
Preturn 1500
Rome is a beuatiful place. Couldn't ask for much more at this point. We still have a lot of land improvement to do though.
And I'm not crazy about the barb sword & axe heading for Neapolis.
T1 1505
+ Replacable parts -> optics (1)
* Barb sword attacks our bow outside Neapolis & dies miserably. Axe moves into his spot to die next turn.
- Ostia harbor -> worker (8) (It'll take longer to get them up here than just make them.)
* Lot of land improvements, not much else
T2 1510
+ Optics -> astronomy (4)
- Rome forge -> missionary
- Circei library -> university
- Viroconium granary -> library (needs culture badly and I'd rather go lib than theatre)
* Lots of land improvements . . . I love all these workers
* Trade mission conducted for $1100. Research set @ 100% Full speed ahead!!!
---- We're actually only losing $29/turn.
T3 1515
- Highly uneventful. No builds. Workers work.
* Just for kicks, I dialed everybody up to see how they were. This is how they are: Broke. Uneducated. Puny.
We can't even sell off any of our surplus goods cuz they ain't got no coin.
T4 1520
- Rome missionary -> missionary (1) sent to Tarentum btw . . .it needs help baaaaad
- Antium grocer -> settler (3) . . . northern fill
- Setia market -> university
- Satricum market -> university
T5 1525
+ Astronomy -> scientific method (4)
- Rome missionary -> market
- Pisae bank -> theatre (1)
- Arpinium bank -> university
* We're now losing only $13/turn even at 100% science
T6 1530
- An absloute ton of builds. I can't remember them all.
- Neapolis Synagogue -> missionary (seemed appropriate)
-- basic infrastructure everywhere
* Arretrium is now Jewish thanks to missionary #2
T7 1535
- Antium Settler -> longbow (to go with)
- Neapolis missionary -> University
- Arretium something - observatory
- a couple others I missed
* Setium & Tarentum are now Jewish
+ we're now losing only $7/turn
T8 1540
- Cumae grocer -> university
T9 1545
*** Scientific Method -> Physics (4)
- Rome market ->
- Antium longbow -> bank
- Ravenna market -> bank
- Velitrae lighthouse -> theatre (there is oil outside the border and we need the expansion)
Lots of work of course.
Yes, it's 1545 and we're working on Physics. Khan still doesn't know his alphabet.
T10 1550
Nothing, actually. Not even worker moves - they're all busy still.
Here's the deal:
- We're at -$29/turn w/ 1085 in the bank @ 100% science still
- 3 cities were Judaised during the last 10 turns. 4 more to go (1 is the newly built one)
- Physics in 4. We're so far ahead it's silly. Ghengis STILL can't read! :shakehead
- We should probably get a few more settlers up in that Northern pennisula.
- We have Praets poised at another barb city up there with poor placement and an archer guarding.
Take 'er away!
Rome is a beuatiful place. Couldn't ask for much more at this point. We still have a lot of land improvement to do though.
And I'm not crazy about the barb sword & axe heading for Neapolis.
T1 1505
+ Replacable parts -> optics (1)
* Barb sword attacks our bow outside Neapolis & dies miserably. Axe moves into his spot to die next turn.
- Ostia harbor -> worker (8) (It'll take longer to get them up here than just make them.)
* Lot of land improvements, not much else
T2 1510
+ Optics -> astronomy (4)
- Rome forge -> missionary
- Circei library -> university
- Viroconium granary -> library (needs culture badly and I'd rather go lib than theatre)
* Lots of land improvements . . . I love all these workers
* Trade mission conducted for $1100. Research set @ 100% Full speed ahead!!!
---- We're actually only losing $29/turn.
T3 1515
- Highly uneventful. No builds. Workers work.
* Just for kicks, I dialed everybody up to see how they were. This is how they are: Broke. Uneducated. Puny.
We can't even sell off any of our surplus goods cuz they ain't got no coin.
T4 1520
- Rome missionary -> missionary (1) sent to Tarentum btw . . .it needs help baaaaad
- Antium grocer -> settler (3) . . . northern fill
- Setia market -> university
- Satricum market -> university
T5 1525
+ Astronomy -> scientific method (4)
- Rome missionary -> market
- Pisae bank -> theatre (1)
- Arpinium bank -> university
* We're now losing only $13/turn even at 100% science
T6 1530
- An absloute ton of builds. I can't remember them all.
- Neapolis Synagogue -> missionary (seemed appropriate)
-- basic infrastructure everywhere
* Arretrium is now Jewish thanks to missionary #2
T7 1535
- Antium Settler -> longbow (to go with)
- Neapolis missionary -> University
- Arretium something - observatory
- a couple others I missed
* Setium & Tarentum are now Jewish
+ we're now losing only $7/turn
T8 1540
- Cumae grocer -> university
T9 1545
*** Scientific Method -> Physics (4)
- Rome market ->
- Antium longbow -> bank
- Ravenna market -> bank
- Velitrae lighthouse -> theatre (there is oil outside the border and we need the expansion)
Lots of work of course.
Yes, it's 1545 and we're working on Physics. Khan still doesn't know his alphabet.
T10 1550
Nothing, actually. Not even worker moves - they're all busy still.
Here's the deal:
- We're at -$29/turn w/ 1085 in the bank @ 100% science still
- 3 cities were Judaised during the last 10 turns. 4 more to go (1 is the newly built one)
- Physics in 4. We're so far ahead it's silly. Ghengis STILL can't read! :shakehead
- We should probably get a few more settlers up in that Northern pennisula.
- We have Praets poised at another barb city up there with poor placement and an archer guarding.
Take 'er away!
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