Biggest party in Flanders declared illegal

[AceChilla]

Today the Belgium supreme court has decided that the biggest party in Flanders who got almost a quater of the electorate last election is a criminal organisation. The court ruled that the party is racist and is banned from now on. What do you think good or bad for democracy in Belgium? In my opinion it's ridiculous to ban a party with such a huge electorate. They may have dumb opinions but banning them doesn't solve anything, quite the contrary. I rather expect them to grow because of this ruling.

BBC Article

 

[emzie]

The party will just reform. Vlaams Blok+ was the idea proposed on another news site. A court might be able to outlaw a party, but the sentiment that put the party in power will not change. Whatever Vlaams Blok reforms as, it'll moderate itself some (no forceful expulsion of non-white immigrants), and thus, gain in popularity.

I guess what I'd like to know from any Belgian poster is: how popular is the idea of a split? Is it as popular in the French-speaking areas of the country?

As to democracy, the court just upheld the law. Advocating the forceful expulsion of non-whites is racist. It's the law that is stupid. While what ever coalition put the legislation together might have wanted Vlaams Blok destroyed, they didn't think their actions through. Like I said, the party will only rise in popularity in Flanders.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Bad for democracy. Good for Belgium. That stuff about "non-European immigrants wishing to remain in Belgium should adopt Belgian rules and values. " is deeply suspicious though.

 

[Pangur Bán]

I was pretty shocked by this. This is the "Belgian Inquisition", using legal nicities to crush those who disagree with consensus ruling class. Democratic principles seem to be rolled over by elitist self-righeousness.

I want to hear a convincing defence of this. I'm losing my faith in Europe.

 

[h4ppy]

I am shocked by this. (Both by the fact that a party would be outlawed because of their views and by the fact that a quarter of the electorate voted for the Vlaams Blok.)

 

[Hundegesicht]

How disappointing.

In the U.S., the closest political organization we have to this is the KKK's political division, and while they only have the support of ~2,000 people there's no way the U.S. government would ban it. They have a right to speak just like anyone else!

Is it now illegal in Europe to even say things that the ruling class dislikes?

(The fact that an openly racist party got 25% of the vote in Belgium is rather scary as well... )

 

[The Last Conformist]

I suppose one could make a poll on this; what's more important - democracy or liberal values?

 

[AceChilla]

Liberal values like freedom of speech?

 

[ComradeDavo]

Wait a second....you all saying the party is banned.......when in reality they article says:

The ruling means the Blok will lose access to state funding and access to television which will, in effect, shut down the party.

Their guy says:

"In order to preserve our party members from prosecution, we are now forced to disband," said Mr Vanhecke immediately after the judgment.

So in fact what has happened, as far as I can gather from this article, the party has not been banned as such, it is that it will no longer receive state funding and won't be allowed to broadcast on public television. Personally, as a supporter of democracy, I don't think that tax payers money should go to rascist parties, and I don't think there are any anti-democratic implications of the ruling. The party have not been banned from standing, and it will be their own descion to disband and form another, which people will still be able to vote for.

 

[Terrapin]

I think the KKK comparison is a little bit overboard. I also think it is a wrong to say blankly that wanting to expel imigrants is racist. If you extend this reasoning, would you say that a law which stops immigration is racist? How about a law which restricts immigration, either in toto or from certain countries? Every country in the world has rules about who can and cannot enter the country. I am sure that Vlaams Blok appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment, some of which is born of racial animus, but to call all the supporters of an anti-immigration policy racist ignores the very real fact that a country as small as Belgium could have its culture overwhelmed pretty quickly. If most of the immigrants are Muslim, it is not outrageous to be concerned that Belgium could turn into mini-Iran.

But the bottom line here has nothing to do with immigration or racism. There is just no way a court should have the authority to outlaw a political party.

 

[philippe]

I as Belgian Think that the Vlaams Blok are a bunch od racist morons and it is proven that Due we MUST vote here (we don't have the right , we must vote) they vote on the Vlaams Blok to say a big **** you to the goverment.Outlawing them is also not the solution.you gotta take them where it hurts, in the debates in the image of the goverments in the realisations.Not by court.
And by the way,many poeple would like to see Belgium split but much more poeple dont want to see Belgium split.
I don't want it to split becuase:
-We lose Brussels then
-In the end we will become poorer
-Already now we are such a small blot on the world and we want that in half?
We shuold look more to switserland into things like deifferent languages mixed in one country. and by the way the Vlaams Blok isnt the biggest one it is the second biggest one just behind the CD&V

 

[~Corsair#01~]

How disappointing.

In the U.S., the closest political organization we have to this is the KKK's political division, and while they only have the support of ~2,000 people there's no way the U.S. government would ban it. They have a right to speak just like anyone else!

Is it now illegal in Europe to even say things that the ruling class dislikes?

(The fact that an openly racist party got 25% of the vote in Belgium is rather scary as well... )

It's all right to have tiny little fascist parties, cos you know they'll never be elected, but if that KKK party got a million votes, you can bet people will start trying to ban it. That's why we tolerate the BNP in the UK- they're too small to worry about.

 

[Paradigne]

How disappointing.

In the U.S., the closest political organization we have to this is the KKK's political division, and while they only have the support of ~2,000 people there's no way the U.S. government would ban it. They have a right to speak just like anyone else!

Is it now illegal in Europe to even say things that the ruling class dislikes?

(The fact that an openly racist party got 25% of the vote in Belgium is rather scary as well... )

Your forgeeting about the Communist Party. THAT was a witch hunt...

 

[philippe]

I think the KKK comparison is a little bit overboard. I also think it is a wrong to say blankly that wanting to expel imigrants is racist. If you extend this reasoning, would you say that a law which stops immigration is racist? How about a law which restricts immigration, either in toto or from certain countries? Every country in the world has rules about who can and cannot enter the country. I am sure that Vlaams Blok appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment, some of which is born of racial animus, but to call all the supporters of an anti-immigration policy racist ignores the very real fact that a country as small as Belgium could have its culture overwhelmed pretty quickly. If most of the immigrants are Muslim, it is not outrageous to be concerned that Belgium could turn into mini-Iran.

Would you like to be ruled by a party were the leaders of that party Deney the holocaust ever happened, And is funded by ex- SSers?

 

[kronic]

I don't see a general problem in declaring parties illegal though it is doubtful it changes anything for good.

I don't know about this particular case or about the situation in Belgium, but in Germany, the political system is designed to make it nearly impossible to get rid of the democratic system. You can switch to a planned economy, if you don't like the market economy, but you practically cannot change the democratic character of the political system.
Basic rights, democracy, federalism and welfare state cannot be abolished even with 2/3 majorities in both chambers of the parliament and in the parliaments of the states.

Every party that wants to get rid of democracy can be declared illegal by the supreme court. This actually happened twice - one communist and one fascist/nazi party were banned in the 50's.

Recently an attempt to ban the National Democratic Party, an extreme right wing party, that managed to get into some state parliaments lately (they did that in the 60's too) failed, not because of missing evidence but because of some really stupid mistakes by the agencies for internal security...

Also, the German Spreme Court is extremely powerful, maybe the most powerful Supreme Court in the world.

 

[MaisseArsouye]

I guess what I'd like to know from any Belgian poster is: how popular is the idea of a split? Is it as popular in the French-speaking areas of the country?

I'd like Belgium to split. In Wallonia, people thinking like me are a minority ( about 15% after recent opinion polls ), but the idea is going up.

The problem with VB is not about spliting Belgium, it's about racism ( and fascism but it was not the point of the case ). There are democratic parties who want to split Belgium, in both sides : NVa and Spirit in Flanders, RWF and other little parties in Wallonia. And in Wallonia, we still hesitate between independance and back to France.

 

[Zeekater]

Would you like to be ruled by a party were the leaders of that party Deney the holocaust ever happened, And is funded by ex- SSers?

I fail to see how that's worse then any other politician...

 

[MaisseArsouye]

(The fact that an openly racist party got 25% of the vote in Belgium is rather scary as well... )

Not in Belgium, in FLANDERS !!! In Wallonia, extreme-rigth is very weak compared to other EU countries : only 8%.

But I agree that a country, Flanders, with 25% racist party is scary... especially if you got to live in the same federal state

 

[amadeus]

And the crimethink purges continue.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Liberal values like freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech and freedom of association are the ones that seem the most relevant here, methinks.