1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Issues with defining Antisemitism and the 'problem' on The Left

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by brennan, Aug 30, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,709
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    That comparison only happened in the first place because someone else compared Hamas to the KKK.

    This may be an accurate characterization of some soldiers, but the IDF as a whole? Definitely not.
     
  2. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,883
    Location:
    Hiding
    One of them is an organization that specifically targets members of a group in order to whip up both sides into a race war, and the other is the KKK.

    In the parallel universe where blacks are 90% of the population, most of them have hostile/genocidal views against white people, and the KKK actively recruits blacks and latinos, then yes, it is roughly analogous.

    You seem to have an ideological commitment to equating Jewish independence with racism, may I ask why?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  3. HoloDoc

    HoloDoc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,010
    Gender:
    Male
    Jewish independence? Is that what the Israeli regime is? Here I thought it was supposed to be a modern secular state. Any theocratic society is by definition racist.
     
  4. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    31,717
    Location:
    Scotland
    ...what?

    Hamas are a hardline paramilitary group with some pretty out-there racial views. Whatever the merits of the analogy, an analogy can at least be drawn. It's not clear what useful analogy can be drawn between the IDF and the KKK, at least so far as membership and ideology is concerned.

    It's accurate enough that it recommends caution when comparing the IDF to race-warring fanatics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,709
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    From where I'm standing the IDF are basically race-warring fanatics, again, maintaining a regime of racial supremacy through terroristic violence against a legally defenseless population.
     
  6. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,883
    Location:
    Hiding
    Your posts for the last few pages could be rearranged randomly and it would be impossible to tell where each one was. They basically all say IDF = KKK with no further explanation or argument. What possible reaction are you hoping for, other than angry retorts from pro-Israel users?

    Wasn't there something earlier about 'discussing this compassionately?'
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  7. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    32,309
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
  8. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    34,985
    Location:
    Perhaps in transit
    There has been plenty of explanation, you are just shutting your eyes to it.
    This is the explanation. Your response is to be so completely dismissive that you don't bother to refute it, but we already know that you are committed to "the only thing standing against holocaust II is the noble IDF killing terrorists pre-emptively while they should be in grade school." Just like southern whites who didn't actually put on the hoods considered the brave men of the KKK to be their only line of defense against black mayhem.
     
  9. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,883
    Location:
    Hiding
    He's throwing around phrases like 'racial supremacy' and 'abusing a helpless population.' Which aren't useful aside from setting up parallels to the KKK. If I went around posting that Democrats were exactly like Stalinists (they want to restrict free trade! They want an all-powerful government!) and outright ignored your comparisons between the actions of the two groups, I don't think you would feel obligated to keep up the conversation.

    And yes, I did refute it. You just had to scroll up to see.
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    34,985
    Location:
    Perhaps in transit

    I saw your response. It informed my understanding of your side of the argument. What's missing is you actually not just dismissing ours.

    We get that you believe things like "mowing the grass" as a 'delicate euphemism' for marching into Gaza and slaughtering people are 'just necessary.' To the rest of us they are pretty easy to characterize as indiscriminate mayhem inflicted on people who can't fight back; in short, terrorism. You have declined to even attempt to prove the necessity, and I can't blame you for not trying to scale that cliff, but don't blame everyone else for the fact that you aren't willing or aren't able. "I have no refutation, therefore I will turn a blind eye upon your argument and accuse you of not making one" is strategy that wins neither debates nor respect.
     
  11. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,709
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    I think basically every nation-state is a racist or inherently chauvinist endeavor :dunno:
     
  12. Robo-Star

    Robo-Star Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Messages:
    464
    Only if race is a subset of religion.
     
  13. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Blackpilled Idealist

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,460
    Gender:
    Male
    They're both very superficial and arbitrary categorizations. Makes them pretty much the same in practice.
     
  14. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    16,576
    How and why we choose to act, the moral rationale behind our behaviors is a "very superficial and arbitrary categorization?"

    Or do you mean something more like, being a d-bag to people because of, or about their cherished personal beliefs and living interactions with their world?

    I mean, lots of people do seem to treat contemporary lay definitions of "race" as a religion, and while I might have some things to say about the quality or morality of said particular religi-thingies, the way people treat them seems neither superficial or arbitrary, even if the actual construct of "race," is. Is that more it?
     
  15. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,883
    Location:
    Hiding
    It's a direct response to Lexicus's comments.

    I don't discuss Gaza with the Israel hating crowd because it is an order of magnitude easier for the would-be prosecutors to make claims than it is for me to research your claim, put it in context, and try to refute it. I would basically have to give a short history of the wars to even engage with a claim like 'marching into Gaza and slaughtering people'. The debate is inherently loaded, just the way you people like it.

    Another example: I could question your nonsense about Gazans not being able to fight back by asking why Israel hasn't yet reconquered Gaza, and you'd respond by saying it is economically unfeasible or impossible for PR reasons. Both of those would need hours of research to respond properly.

    So is the Australian army also just like the KKK?
     
  16. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    34,985
    Location:
    Perhaps in transit
    So, exactly as I said, you dismiss the argument as unbeatable, then pretend it has never been made, then make accusations about how no argument was presented. Now we come full circle and you acknowledge that an argument was made, but claim that the reasons it is unbeatable make it somehow right to dismiss it as something "you don't discuss."

    So, I guess we can take that as a retraction of "Lexicus never presented any arguments." Progress, in a way.

    Now, as to your categorically dismissing anything you disagree with as "nonsense." Your circular non-arguments, random snotty comments, and intractable grip on positions that you choose not to defend and most people find indefensible, combine to net you zero respect, so it isn't like you actually have the cache to defame me, but you're still being an insulting little prig there.
     
  17. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,883
    Location:
    Hiding
    Lexicus said Palestinians. Not Gaza. Safe to assume he wasn't referring to specific wars.
     
  18. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    4,521
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Praha
    Well PLO charter calls for destruction of Israel but They also tried coups in Jordan and Lebanon. I am not ab expert on Palestine and maybe there was also some normal sane man behind it, but terror against everybody moderate was there from the start.
    After military loss and no economical support the arab countries hadnt much choice.
    If arab countries would actually help Arabs living there instead sponsoring their stance for destruction of Israel, the problem would be solved. But instead allowing assimilation or immigration, they still supporting fight by supporting orgs like Hamas.
    OFC there are some incidents caused by IDF, but Arabs living in Israel enjoy much more rights than in any Arab country, liberal Palestinian people are first victims of Hamas.
    If arabs in Palestine would actually choose democracy, human rights and secularism and leave doctrine of destruction for Israel, they should have got some sympathy from normal people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  19. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    34,985
    Location:
    Perhaps in transit
    Lexicus said a whole lot of things, and yet for a while you claimed he had said nothing at all. Keep circling; I'm sure it makes it seem like you are getting somewhere.
    Since Israel has openly chosen against two out of three of the former and cheerfully adopted the latter whether it was left them or not it seems pretty clear why they get no sympathy. How long do you think Israel will be able to cling to their doctrine of destruction?
     
  20. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    4,521
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Praha
    Israel has actually achieved many succeses far beyond great military defence. From economics through culture to science and without need of religious or political background. This is what I am missing in arab countries.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page