bills promotion sugestion

[bill2505]

even if i like your promotions so far i thing that some things(mostly vanilla ones) need change.

1 = seeing promotions like guerrilla named guerilla 1,2,3 is very frustrating and immersion breaker. instead of using number use something like this :
1: rookie guerrilla fighter
2: experienced guerrilla fighter
3: veteran guerrilla fighter
this i thing would be a lot better

2: more realistic promotions
the way some promotion are named (mostly the vanilla one) is bad and unrealistic
for example anti tank defense promotion

this is how it is now

1: anti tank defense 1
2: anti tank defense 1
3: anti tank defense 1

this is both unrealistic and not very beautiful in the eye
how i suggest to be

a: anti armor "defense" training = this doesnt represent equipment but training how how the unit to react in case of armor showing in the battle. it should give primary some anti armor defence like 5% ( not % armor attack) and a small like 5 % armor armor attack

b: light heavy weapons = gives 10 % defence and 10 % armor attack

c: heavy weapons = 15% defence and 15% armor attack

3: actual promotions .... promotions
what i mean
every unit will get the rookie promotion when they build it sould give a big decrease in its abilities like

a: rookie= - 15attack in all units
- 10 defence
- 2 first attacke
- 20 city attack
- 10 city defence


b :experienced =
- 10attack in all units
- 5 defence
- 1 first strike
- 10city attack
- 5 city defence



c: regular= +5attack in all units
+ 5 defence
+1 first strike
- 5city attack
5% 0 city defence


D veteran= a bit more than regular (i am bored)


4 charge promotions should
nt give bonus only against siege units


5: a i dont know why but i prefer the new promotion that give smaller but more bonuses rather the ones that give %30 against one thing


6 i know that many asked a weapon system like ffh mod. i suggest something along with this lines but with equipment
i was playing the stalker game and it has a great weapon and armor upgrade system
my suggestion is this


gas mask=bonus fighting biohazard units
grenades=10% against infantry and 5 %against armor
armor upgrade system. this is only an example
titanium layers .the units armor is upgraded with titanium layers . it gives 20% defence against all ground units exept armors and robots
10 % against armor
5 % agaisnt robots
10 % attack agaisnt infatry units
-1 extra strike ( unit is less mobile)
5%city defence
more will come from this
in some parts in needs balance fixes and staf like that.

 

[bill2505]

come one guys tell me your oppinion

 

[EldrinFal]

Isn't Rookie, Experienced, and Veteran more a measure of the current level of the unit and accordingly that equates to having additional promotions already?

Also, you couldn't use straight number bonuses or penalties because they would be too powerful at the low tech units, and mostly trivial at the high end. That's why similar type promotions have % bonuses.

As for the naming of promotions, yeah, it's not a bad idea to make things sound neater. Not sure what kind of work is involved with that though.

 

[bill2505]

Isn't Rookie, Experienced, and Veteran more a measure of the current level of the unit and accordingly that equates to having additional promotions already?

Also, you couldn't use straight number bonuses or penalties because they would be too powerful at the low tech units, and mostly trivial at the high end. That's why similar type promotions have % bonuses.

As for the naming of promotions, yeah, it's not a bad idea to make things sound neater. Not sure what kind of work is involved with that though.

about your first note you refer to to 1 or 3 suggestion.also about the numbers i didnt say that % shouldnt be used just that that i would like more tech that give many % small bonuses rather having only only one bonus

 

[EldrinFal]

about your first note you refer to to 1 or 3 suggestion.also about the numbers i didnt say that % shouldnt be used just that that i would like more tech that give many % small bonuses rather having only only one bonus

Isn't Rookie, Experienced, and Veteran more a measure of the current level of the unit and accordingly that equates to having additional promotions already?

This was in reference to the concept of Rookie, Experienced, Veteran promotions you mentioned. I would consider those "promotions" as more like an assessment of the unit's current level which already = additional promotions of choice. A unit is already "experienced" if it has experience and I don't think would need that ADDITIONAL bonus titled "Experience" to qualify it as such.

Also, you couldn't use straight number bonuses or penalties because they would be too powerful at the low tech units, and mostly trivial at the high end. That's why similar type promotions have % bonuses.

I was referring to the following:

a: rookie= - 15attack in all units
- 10 defence
- 2 first attacke
- 20 city attack
- 10 city defence
b :experienced =
- 10attack in all units
- 5 defence
- 1 first strike
- 10city attack
- 5 city defence
c: regular= +5attack in all units
+ 5 defence
+1 first strike
- 5city attack
5% 0 city defence

Maybe those were supposed to be % modifiers?

 

[bill2505]

i understand now . the problem is that you have a very experienced unit that have all 3 or 4 cover promotions . right now if you attack that unit with a non archer unit the unit has the same power with a rookie unit that is unrealistic.with my system this problem is fixed. i like to see the promotions like specialization which is what they but this create the problem that i told you before.in your last ? yes
what about my 2 and 6 suggestion

 

[EldrinFal]

i understand now . the problem is that you have a very experienced unit that have all 3 or 4 cover promotions . right now if you attack that unit with a non archer unit the unit has the same power with a rookie unit that is unrealistic.with my system this problem is fixed. i like to see the promotions like specialization which is what they but this create the problem that i told you before.in your last ? yes
what about my 2 and 6 suggestion

I think we can consider any new unit as a "Rookie" although sometimes they get training and get some base XP to start. I'm not really sure what you mean about being attacked by an archer. You mean if the defender has bonuses vs melee but not ranged units? It really depends on the promotions he has though. He might have Combat I which is a general STR boost. Or if he has a Terrain/Feature promotion then he gets that 25% defense in that terrain.

#2 I mentioned. Better text/names is nice. Hydro has been managing the promotions I think so he'd be the better one to judge that.

#6 I thought there were similar upgrades in the later game. It's been awhile since I've played in the late game, but I thought there were promotions that addresses those kinds of things. Whether it is "equipment" or "promotions" is just semantics. I don't really care for the idea of having units travel to 3 different cities to upgrade their gear though. That works in other games fine, but just seems like it would be annoying in CIV.

 

[bill2505]

I think we can consider any new unit as a "Rookie" although sometimes they get training and get some base XP to start. I'm not really sure what you mean about being attacked by an archer. You mean if the defender has bonuses vs melee but not ranged units? It really depends on the promotions he has though. He might have Combat I which is a general STR boost. Or if he has a Terrain/Feature promotion then he gets that 25% defense in that terrain.

CIV.

i mean a unit has all the cover promotions(and has 20 s) and gets attacked by rookie rifleman (20 s too)then they are going to have the same power even if one is veteran unit the other is rookie. i know that there are other promotions but still this system is a bit unrealistic

 

[EldrinFal]

i mean a unit has all the cover promotions(and has 20 s) and gets attacked by rookie rifleman (20 s too)then they are going to have the same power even if one is veteran unit the other is rookie. i know that there are other promotions but still this system is a bit unrealistic

But you can't have every rookie unit in the game inferior to any other non-rookie. I think even a rookie with a gun is going to be much more superior to even your most legendary stone axe warrior

 

[bill2505]

But you can't have every rookie unit in the game inferior to any other non-rookie. I think even a rookie with a gun is going to be much more superior to even your most legendary stone axe warrior

first i dint say that . a unit that has 20 S and is rookie( acording to my system) even with the small ability decrease will beat a stone warrior with 10 S.
second a rookie early musketman could loose to a champion axe warion.that is realistic.

third we could use a promotion weapon system .for example every archer unit will have at trait like this


range weapon
- 20 against armor
- 20 mech
+ 10 melee attack

 

[EldrinFal]

first i dint say that . a unit that has 20 S and is rookie( acording to my system) even with the small ability decrease will beat a stone warrior with 10 S.
second a rookie early musketman could loose to a champion axe warion.that is realistic.

You could, I suppose, setup any situation where 1 unit beats another. One is sick, in an ambush, scared, blindfolded, tickled, whatever. Yes, there are a lot of situational modifiers that in reality affect battle. The element of surprise is HUGE one. There are a lot of tactical/strategy type games that get into those things a lot more than Civ.

And nothing annoys me more in a game when my sparkly new rifleman unit gets defeated by spear chuckers.

third we could use a promotion weapon system .for example every archer unit will have at trait like this

range weapon
- 20 against armor
- 20 mech
+ 10 melee attack

Are these (%) percents?

 

[bill2505]

You could, I suppose, setup any situation where 1 unit beats another. One is sick, in an ambush, scared, blindfolded, tickled, whatever. Yes, there are a lot of situational modifiers that in reality affect battle. The element of surprise is HUGE one. There are a lot of tactical/strategy type games that get into those things a lot more than Civ.

And nothing annoys me more in a game when my sparkly new rifleman unit gets defeated by spear chuckers.



Are these (%) percents?

always.

yes that annoys me too(chuckers)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

even if i like your promotions so far i thing that some things(mostly vanilla ones) need change.

1 = seeing promotions like guerrilla named guerilla 1,2,3 is very frustrating and immersion breaker. instead of using number use something like this :
1: rookie guerrilla fighter
2: experienced guerrilla fighter
3: veteran guerrilla fighter
this i thing would be a lot better

Changing the name displayed for almost everything in Civ is trivial. You just find the game text file. open it in NotePad or similar and change the name (in all languages).

The file for guerrilla (and others) is RoM_GameTextInfos_Promotions.xml in the folder Assets/XML/Text.

Have at it, post the result and one of the modders will check it and if OK put it in game.

 

[bill2505]

Changing the name displayed for almost everything in Civ is trivial. You just find the game text file. open it in NotePad or similar and change the name (in all languages).

The file for guerrilla (and others) is RoM_GameTextInfos_Promotions.xml in the folder Assets/XML/Text.

Have at it, post the result and one of the modders will check it and if OK put it in game.

ok i will try it.
some question in the bonuses.

1 what is the minimum bonus a prom can give
2where i can change the bonus they give

 

[Hydromancerx]

seeing promotions like guerrilla named guerilla 1,2,3 is very frustrating and immersion breaker. instead of using number use something like this :

I think the existing names should stay the same. Its just easier to know what level of promotion your at if they are 1, 2, 3. Not pretty but very useful for keeping track.

grenades=10% against infantry and 5 %against armor

2. Why would they have grenades if we have a gernader line of units?

armor upgrade system. this is only an example
titanium layers .the units armor is upgraded with titanium layers . it gives 20% defence against all ground units exept armors and robots
10 % against armor
5 % agaisnt robots
10 % attack agaisnt infatry units
-1 extra strike ( unit is less mobile)
5%city defence
more will come from this
in some parts in needs balance fixes and staf like that.

Hold off on this. I have an idea to incorporate buildings that produce better armor such as this.

Many I have too many project. I work on one and then another person wants something else changed.

In short please hold off on changing promotions. You can keep posting idea, I just want to do it right when I have time to focus on that part of C2C.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

ok i will try it.
some question in the bonuses.

1 what is the minimum bonus a prom can give
2where i can change the bonus they give

I was going to start you on the easy stuff first, just the display names. Were you were used to XML then suggest you try working some of the promotions.

However if you want to go the whole hog this is what you can do

1. Create a folder for yourself in Assets/Modules
2. Edit the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls.xml file in Assets/Modules to include your folder.
3. Copy the files and their schema files you want to work on into your folder and rename all adding your name as prefix
   • RoM_GameTextInfos_Promotions.xml from the folder Assets/XML/Text
   • CIV4PromotionInfos.xml and Afforess_CIV4UnitSchema.xml from Assets/XML/Units
4. Edit these versions and test in game. Note. I usually have one file per thing (promotion) I am working on and discard the rest. This is the advantage of the WoC standard.

I think the existing names should stay the same. Its just easier to know what level of promotion your at if they are 1, 2, 3. Not pretty but very useful for keeping track.



2. Why would they have grenades if we have a gernader line of units?


Hold off on this. I have an idea to incorporate buildings that produce better armor such as this.

Many I have too many project. I work on one and then another person wants something else changed.

In short please hold off on changing promotions. You can keep posting idea, I just want to do it right when I have time to focus on that part of C2C.

I agree with Hydro's point 2. However

• I think you should try out some of your suggestions just to see if they work in game. No one better than you for that since it is your ideas you are testing.
• if we are going to reduce the number of promotions displayed on the unit info I think your name changes are good

Please not both of you that I will be revisiting the health promotions and wha promotions that animal units can get. So we may have some confilcts a bit later on.

 

[bill2505]

I agree with Hydro's point 2. However


.

if by grenedier you mean the the 17 centery infantry then i was refering to modern infantry.if you mean a grenedier infantry for all ages i thing that this is a bit unrealistic. today everyone has a grenade
hydromancerx its ok take your take your time. i will post more sugestion

 

[Hydromancerx]

if by grenedier you mean the the 17 centery infantry then i was refering to modern infantry.if you mean a grenedier infantry for all ages i thing that this is a bit unrealistic. today everyone has a grenade
hydromancerx its ok take your take your time. i will post more sugestion

I was referring to the grenedier upgrade path ...

Arsonist (Str 8) -> Gernadier (Str 27) -> Modern Gernadier (Str 34) -> Bazooka (Str 50) -> Anti-Tank (Str 55)

But I understand historically units had more than one weapon, such a Knight on a horse could dismount and then become a swordsman or a musketman could run out of ammo and then fight with a bayonet.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I ignored this thread at first because it was very confusing when it began.

I'm still a bit confused but I think I understand that largely, you're saying that any given promo path should lead to at least a slight generic % improvement to recognize that even if you've specialized your unit against say, gunpowder or melee units, it has also outright been through battle more than a lesser level unit and should have some improvement to its overall strength as a result.

Overall, you seem to be proposing that promotions should reflect 'classes' (to steal a D&D term) and be named on a scaling system that reflects 'terms' rather than numeric 'levels'.

I suppose that's not a terrible idea... we could simply adjust say, anti-melee (shock) to be +15% vs melee and +5% overall to reflect this concept of overall battle experience being generic.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well its been brought up before that perhaps special promotions should be given to units of a particular type. Such as polearms get a polearms promotion. The problem is if a polearm upgrade into a gunpowder unit. What should happen?