Biotech Alt History Brainstorming Thread

[Maxima7]

1. Then it's time to get the Jobs and Homeless Properties in place!

2. While it is a big step from altering bacterials to eucaryotic cells, and also quite a big step from mouse to human, the step from dolphin to human or ape to human or elephant to human... isn't THAT big.
Maybe I'll change the Animal Designer to only require Biopunk and the Microbiology Artist to advanced Molecular Biology and leave the rest at Genesis Biology.

It would be nice however, if the Biopunk stuff would be spread out on the Techtree a bit and not require nothing more or only Genesis Biology. There are some steps in between I think.

I don't know where biopunk came into the tech tree. Is it before DNA computing?

 

[Faustmouse]

I don't know where biopunk came into the tech tree. Is it before DNA computing?

WAY before it. It's around the time we are now.

 

[Maxima7]

WAY before it. It's around the time we are now.

That's what I thought. It's kind of strange having organic computing before DNA computing but whatever. lol

 

[Faustmouse]

That's what I thought. It's kind of strange having organic computing before DNA computing but whatever. lol

As I said, the BASICS for Organic Computers are there, right now in our world! It's a LONG way to go to make them "equal" with normal Computers, but if you go Biopunk, you can create primitive ones. Might be as good as the 1970's Computers, but whatever And with DNA Computing, you'll get better Organic Computers.

So probably:
Biopunk -> Organic Computer Lab
DNA Computing -> Organic Computer Factory

 

[Hydromancerx]

2. While it is a big step from altering bacterials to eucaryotic cells, and also quite a big step from mouse to human, the step from dolphin to human or ape to human or elephant to human... isn't THAT big.
Maybe I'll change the Animal Designer to only require Biopunk and the Microbiology Artist to advanced Molecular Biology and leave the rest at Genesis Biology.

3. It would be nice however, if the Biopunk stuff would be spread out on the Techtree a bit and not require nothing more or only Genesis Biology. There are some steps in between I think.

4. I think your Organic Computer Factory should be changed to a lab and later an factory. Also, it should give some

2. What I mean is animal tests are a lot more controversial than animal tests. Which is why we have lots of cloned animals today but no cloned Humans.

3. We don't want to spread out too much. I mean its giving the abilities of later techs early. We have to look at this the same way we look at the retro techs. Which is weird since these are futuristic to us, but we must define how futuristic. Thus Biopunk would look clunky compared to late Trans-Human technology.

4. Hmm perhaps both. Like a Lab and then the factory requires the lab. The problem then becomes the fact we have 2 buildings producing the same resource. Just one earlier than the other.

I don't know where biopunk came into the tech tree. Is it before DNA computing?

Yes, Biopunk is like having future technology today. Think Jurassic Park where they had advanced cloning technology in the 1990's.

As I said, the BASICS for Organic Computers are there, right now in our world! It's a LONG way to go to make them "equal" with normal Computers, but if you go Biopunk, you can create primitive ones. Might be as good as the 1970's Computers, but whatever And with DNA Computing, you'll get better Organic Computers.

So probably:
Biopunk -> Organic Computer Lab
DNA Computing -> Organic Computer Factory

Oh I like that.

EDIT: I tweaked the "Organic Computer Lab" let me know what you think.

Also I added some disease. I am thinking that like how Diseasepunk was very polluting Biopunk should increase disease due to unnaturally altering biological species without knowing the full consequences of doing so.

 

[Maxima7]

As I said, the BASICS for Organic Computers are there, right now in our world! It's a LONG way to go to make them "equal" with normal Computers, but if you go Biopunk, you can create primitive ones. Might be as good as the 1970's Computers, but whatever And with DNA Computing, you'll get better Organic Computers.

So probably:
Biopunk -> Organic Computer Lab
DNA Computing -> Organic Computer Factory

I think DNA computing should be separated on its own as DNA computers and DNA storage medium. The biopunk tech could be replaced with organic computing (don't think we have a tech for that specifically, but there's probably something appropriate where it could fit). Optical computing/computers could be added too somewhere.

Yes, Biopunk is like having future technology today. Think Jurassic Park where they had advanced cloning technology in the 1990's.

Yeah, I know. I just think it's weird that the replacement path is under the tech "DNA Computing" if they're going to be organic computers. I would think the more appropriate replacement for the Biopunk organic computers would be organic computing.

 

[Faustmouse]

2. What I mean is animal tests are a lot more controversial than animal tests. Which is why we have lots of cloned animals today but no cloned Humans.

3. We don't want to spread out too much. I mean its giving the abilities of later techs early. We have to look at this the same way we look at the retro techs. Which is weird since these are futuristic to us, but we must define how futuristic. Thus Biopunk would look clunky compared to late Trans-Human technology.

4. Hmm perhaps both. Like a Lab and then the factory requires the lab. The problem then becomes the fact we have 2 buildings producing the same resource. Just one earlier than the other.

5. EDIT: I tweaked the "Organic Computer Lab" let me know what you think.

6. Also I added some disease. I am thinking that like how Diseasepunk was very polluting Biopunk should increase disease due to unnaturally altering biological species without knowing the full consequences of doing so.

2. I think if you go full Biopunk, your people are more "ok" with human tests. But they may be not aswell. I also thought of that. I was thinking of a system were new technologies are controversal in your population like Nuclear Technology, Biotech and Cloning, Nanotech... And when the techs advances and are more normal, your people accept them and can be happy with them.

3. Yeah I understand that. But I think that having Genesis Biology as a requirement is excactly the the problem you point out. It's quite a bit down the road from Biopunk, that's why I want to give those buildings a more early tech as prereq.

5. Looks good, but:
- Mad Scientist Lab was changed to Biopunk lab
- Still Genesis Bio requirement... I propose Advanced Molecular Biology as prereq for the Organic Computer Lab
- requires Enzymes (to be made) and Biobricks (to be made), maybe Biopolymers (I think then Biopolymers must be changed to an earlier tech

6. Hmm ok. I'm not fully convinced, but I'll go for it for a gameplay reason.

 

[Hydromancerx]

2. True. I can agree with that.

3. Hmm Biopunk is X83 and Genesis Biology is X87. And DNA Computing is all the way down at X97. Compared to the size of the trans-human era they are close but I suppose with the large tech costs it would be long to wait for Genesis Biology.

5.
- Agreed.
- Agreed.
- Agreed, Agreed ... Well you could always remove the tech requirement so Biopolymers could be be made by an earlier Biopunk Building.

6. It all depends upon the building, but overall it would give some balance to them since they are so powerful for their time.

 

[Faustmouse]

3. I think the Science Output of your cities should also increase so much in that time, that you need ~7 Rounds per tech at Snail.

6. I think balancing this era is a project a while down the road

 

[climat]

Somewhat Off-Topic:
I can't understand why these "punk" things are world wonders. Strictly speaking, they are technologies, not cultures. Why should they be monopolized by one civilization?
(Well, I would argue that any culture also shouldn't be monopolized by one civilization but that's really off-topic, so I won't talk about that here.)

 

[Faustmouse]

Good question...
IMHO, it would be way cooler if you don't need the wonder but therefore increase the cost of the tech to a 5 fold. This way, if you decide that your neighbour is to scary with it's Da Vinci Tanks, you could also spend a lot of time to research them by yourself.

 

[Yudishtira]

@Faustmouse

4. Could you change the name of the "Mad Science Lab" to just "Biopunk Lab"?

Awwwww....does he have to???

 

[Hydromancerx]

Awwwww....does he have to???

We already have a Mad Scientist Castle though.

Somewhat Off-Topic:
I can't understand why these "punk" things are world wonders. Strictly speaking, they are technologies, not cultures. Why should they be monopolized by one civilization?
(Well, I would argue that any culture also shouldn't be monopolized by one civilization but that's really off-topic, so I won't talk about that here.)

Because its so powerful. If every civ had it then it would mess up the tech tree. Also it being technically a "culture" too means it is limited to 1.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

So I made some art for it. I will add it to my FPK under the name goodorganiccomputers.dds Please make it accordingly when you make the Organic Computers resources.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Here is some art for the buildings ...

Organic Computer Factory = Here

Organic Computer Lab = Here

 

[rightfuture]

I don't have a problem with your illustrations or ideas Faustmouse, Not that I'm trying to comment directly on your stuff here. I just wanted to draw some careful lines. Love that other artwork. I am fine with your drawing. Great to see you here.
I just didn't want anyone to actually step in the "Jar-Jar Binks" of biotechnology fiction. Wouldn't want that to get on C2C's shoes.

Please avoid this at all costs .
I hope someone doesn't bring up Existenz. Please, please don't.
with the bio-techy vr game pods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existenz
move along. move along. nothing to see here.
This is not the bio-tech you're looking for...

More Gibson, Sterling, and Stephenson than that movie. At least the bio-tech parts.
Try more Greg Egan(bio-stuff), Greg Bear(Blood Music-excellent), and Pierre Ouellette(The Deus Machine-wow) for excellent bio-tech fiction (all cutting edge bio-tech gone wild).

The Deus Machine
http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0679424075

"In the midst of an unprecedented economic depression that has ruined the country and brought the government to the edge of collapse, a renegade genius programs a supercomputer with an artificial intelligence (DEUS) that perpetually reinvents itself--and thereby comes "to life." But when crooked government insiders intent on making profits through chemical warfare use DEUS for their research, the machine, attempting suicide, spawns an unbelievably terrifying array of mutant life forms that begin to run wild over the earth."

"Machine intelligence/consciousness and its interface with humanity form the central theme in Ouellette's first novel. The trappings of an honest intellectual exercise on the future of the computer are present here within the context of an espionage/adventure tale. Brought to life and then subverted by corporate and political interests, the supercomputer Deus struggles with its ever-growing sense of ethics, which points toward self-annihilation as the only viable course of action. The equation is altered by the creation of another rapidly evolving machine-based intellect that develops a human-oriented value system built upon relationships."

Personally I would say this is an interesting exploration of machine and bio evolution, both separately and together. It covers a heck of a lot more near future bio-technology than most books, plus there's a bunch of organic evolution, and it's one of my favorites.


Blood Music
http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Music-Greg-Bear/dp/0441003486

This book is based on his award winning short story, which explores extremely far into the concept of what happens when nano-technology infects a human.
You probably have seen it many times through science fiction. It has ended up being adapted in everything from the new Outer Limits to Star Trek and is a compelling story that takes those interpretations beyond the next level.
Also one of my favorites, for good reason.
(Could be a good alternative to a gray-goo apocalyptic plague in C2C)
More biology altered to the limits with nano-technology - but distinctly bio-tech.

I do think that growing technology, including buildings, furniture, and combining electronics with plants will eventually happen.
Living buildings, growing your own electronics, tools, dna computers, algae biofuel and hydroponic food.
Skyscraper farms, genetically engineered and personalized medicines, etc.

I would love to see what everyone's best found ideas are.

 

[rightfuture]

I guess I'll mention my other bio-tech favorite.

Code of the Lifemaker
http://www.amazon.com/Code-Lifemaker-James-P-Hogan/dp/0743435265
"a colony ship destined for Mars ends up on Titan. Its crew--including linguists, psychologists, parapsychology researchers, and a whole passel of soldiers-- encounters a strange race of beings: accidentally-evolved "robots," the offspring of an alien factory ship whose computers were addled by radiation a million years before"
and it's sequel

The Immortality Code
http://www.amazon.com/The-Immortality-Option-James-Hogan/dp/0345379152


A whole ecosystem of machines ends up growing with assembly lines and interesting dynamics. Not to mention an engaging story. Sequel even better.
It's more Tech-Bio than Bio-Tech, but it should be very inspiring.

I would also mention Prometheus.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...e-as-stupid-as-ours-ready-to-create-new-life/
An awful lot of social and ethical questions in bio-tech to be explored in the game.
It could inspire some interesting policy decisions. Do I allow stem cells? Cloning? Inserting Animal genes into humans, and vice versa?
What happens when 1 country does, and another doesn't. Good and bad consequences.

Where should we draw the line in exploring bio-engineering?
Jurassic Park also does a great job of raising the question from a fear perspective.
I would say the promise of 3d printing your own replacement organs, and ending things like cancer will keep us pushing the line,
http://io9.com/artificial-plants-could-one-day-power-your-home-464881436
http://www.buzzfeed.com/atmccann/how-to-code-a-life
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/des...could-eat-and-grow-from-carbon-emissions/1224
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/24/urban-sustainability-cities
Living cities, growing furniture, inserting meat protein in plants, organic electronics, clothing. plant computers, Breathing houses, etc.

 

[climat]

Because its so powerful. If every civ had it then it would mess up the tech tree. Also it being technically a "culture" too means it is limited to 1.

That's why I suggest to allow them to all civilizations. Since they are so powerful, the civ having them (which is usually the leading civ) will have tremendous advantages and it wouldn't be good for balance.

 

[Faustmouse]

I don't have a problem with your illustrations or ideas Faustmouse, Not that I'm trying to comment directly on your stuff here. I just wanted to draw some careful lines. Love that other artwork. I am fine with your drawing. Great to see you here.
I just didn't want anyone to actually step in the "Jar-Jar Binks" of biotechnology fiction. Wouldn't want that to get on C2C's shoes.

Please avoid this at all costs .
I hope someone doesn't bring up Existenz. Please, please don't.
with the bio-techy vr game pods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existenz
move along. move along. nothing to see here.
This is not the bio-tech you're looking for...

Sorry, I just can't read your long posts^^ So, in a few sentences: what do you want me to do / not to do?

Edit: Finished the Organic Computer Lab + Resource. No Resource Requirement yet. I'd like to add Enzymes (maybe at Molecular Biology? Or Gene Manipulation?) and Biobricks (maybe at Advanced Molecular Biology?) as requirements.
And if you could think of an appropiate building at Biopunk to produce BioPolymers, they can be a prereq aswell.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Here is a new Biopunk unit I re-textured today. It uses the same model and animations as the Hi-Tech Marine. Please use that as a guide for art.

Organic Armored Infantry [National Unit - Limit 15]
Graphic: (See Attachment)
Icon: (See Attachment)
Type: Combatant/Hi-Tech
Strength: 100
Movement: 2
Cost: 3000
Req Tech: Biopunk
Req Resource: Biopunk AND Organic Computers
Req Building: Biopunk Lab
Upgrades To: Super Soldier

Special Abilities

• +25% City Defense
• +25% Gunpowder Units
• Starts with March, Camouflage and Amphibious Promotions

Note this doesn't need firearms or ammunition because it "grows" its own ammunition in the biogun it is equipped with.