Abaddon
Deity
Very curious on a few nations stats.. 
BirdNES: 1500 AD: A New World
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
- Start date
jeps
Arcadefire
Abaddon, do I really need to finish this post?
F*ck...
F*ck...
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
The sheer audacity of some people! How DARE they send PMs of questions to you bird! 
"f*ck off and do some work" abaddon
"f*ck off and do some work" abaddon
Abaddon
Deity
edit nvrmind
Weird. But it is back now.
LittleBoots
The Bloody Banner
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,979
Why was Norway yellow on the last religious map? Also, I realize I'm a little biased, but is there a reason Protestantism is making such massive advances? I recognize I'm doing decent work in certain places, which makes me very happy, but it seems like for every Reform Catholic I gain in France, I lose three Traditionals. Also, there hasn't been much of a case made for what Protestants are complaining about. If its OTL, then I've addressed most things, other than obviously the importance of the Pope, but I've been much more conciliatory than OTL Popes. I can't fix the problems if they don't let me know what they are.
In addition, there hasn't been any widespread persecution of the sort that tends to fan religious flames. And while I'm not involved in the German War, it doesn't seem to be as much religious as it is portrayed; in fact it seems very political, given that there are Protestants on both sides. In general, things seem to be proceeding a little bit too much like OTL without some of what I thought were the causes OTL. I recognize that Protestantism was very political, so even perfect theological arguments won't stop all Protestantism, but it certainly seems like it would help.
Also, while I am moderately aggravated Thomas More was bastardized (sorry, Stormy, but its true), I would like to know if it would be okay if I started writing from the point of view of lower level theologians like analogues of de Sales or Erasmus. I can't have every Pope be brilliant and stay in character, but I can keep them relatively pious and rely on others' writings.
I will try to keep (the theologians) them as original as possible, given that it is unlikely that recognizable theologians will appear, given the drastic differences in the timelines (for instance, I think it is unlikely for Calvin to go the way he did, given that he was motivated in large part due to French persecution, something noticeably absent here; also, as much as it may seem to be similar, we do not have a real Protestants on Catholics all out 30 years war brawl going on).
And not to nag, but I'm eagerly anticipating the addition to the update
In addition, there hasn't been any widespread persecution of the sort that tends to fan religious flames. And while I'm not involved in the German War, it doesn't seem to be as much religious as it is portrayed; in fact it seems very political, given that there are Protestants on both sides. In general, things seem to be proceeding a little bit too much like OTL without some of what I thought were the causes OTL. I recognize that Protestantism was very political, so even perfect theological arguments won't stop all Protestantism, but it certainly seems like it would help.
Also, while I am moderately aggravated Thomas More was bastardized (sorry, Stormy, but its true
), I would like to know if it would be okay if I started writing from the point of view of lower level theologians like analogues of de Sales or Erasmus. I can't have every Pope be brilliant and stay in character, but I can keep them relatively pious and rely on others' writings. I will try to keep (the theologians) them as original as possible, given that it is unlikely that recognizable theologians will appear, given the drastic differences in the timelines (for instance, I think it is unlikely for Calvin to go the way he did, given that he was motivated in large part due to French persecution, something noticeably absent here; also, as much as it may seem to be similar, we do not have a real Protestants on Catholics all out 30 years war brawl going on).
And not to nag, but I'm eagerly anticipating the addition to the update
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
OOC: I know as much about Christian dogma as I know about aliens living on Mars, but some people, when granted and given all their demands, simply demand for more
I am working on stats at the moment and it seems that two calculation changes are in order. First national confidence will not translate 1:1 to economy, but rather at 1 EP per 2 National confidence. Some of you may see a +1 Bank as an off set this turn only.
Second, Fleets 15+ will now cost 1 EP upkeep 30+ 2 EP. Up until now there was no charge for fleet upkeep at all and this seems reasonable.
Stats first, then pms.
Second, Fleets 15+ will now cost 1 EP upkeep 30+ 2 EP. Up until now there was no charge for fleet upkeep at all and this seems reasonable.
Stats first, then pms.
DuxTexanii
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
- Messages
- 152
OOC
Yes.... Greece is growing like cancer... err, like a baby.
-
Why do I get the feeling the moderator is a big fan of the thirty years war?
I shouldn't complain, given my gains, but I think the Roman Bishop is right, the events in central Europe don't seem to make much sense at all.
Has any player been ordering religious persecution?
If not, why is protestantism a political entity? I am no expert, but my understanding is that alot of protestant militancy was a response to persecution (i.e. prison breaks in the Netherlands etc) and that the Reformers tended to have a high view of the established civil magistrate.
Additionally, should Protestantism be clearly divided from Roman Catholicism at this point? Correct me if I am mistating anything, but classical protestantism considers itself to be catholic, and at the beginning the protestants weren't always clearly divided from the Roman catholics. I am not necessarily saying that Protestants shouldn't have clearly divided off yet, but the reasoning behind their rise in this timeline doesn't seem to be clearly thought out. Why are we already going into holy war--especially when the war in central europe has Roman Catholics on both sides. Roman Catholic Hungary and Bavaria vs. Roman Catholic Poland and Austria and Lutheran Brandenburg does not a holy war make.
Anyway, this part of the update doesn't seem to flow from what's been going on at all, unless one of the players has been ordering wholescale religious persecutions.
Could the Bishop of Rome in character declare his position relative to the protestants and the specific nature of his reforms?
IC
Venice, though we have long prayed for your destruction, recent events have made us change our minds regarding you.
Would you be interested in an official peace treaty?
Basil, King of Greece, Defender of the Orthodox, Defender of Orthodoxy.
Yes.... Greece is growing like cancer... err, like a baby.
-
Why do I get the feeling the moderator is a big fan of the thirty years war?
I shouldn't complain, given my gains, but I think the Roman Bishop is right, the events in central Europe don't seem to make much sense at all.
Has any player been ordering religious persecution?
If not, why is protestantism a political entity? I am no expert, but my understanding is that alot of protestant militancy was a response to persecution (i.e. prison breaks in the Netherlands etc) and that the Reformers tended to have a high view of the established civil magistrate.
Additionally, should Protestantism be clearly divided from Roman Catholicism at this point? Correct me if I am mistating anything, but classical protestantism considers itself to be catholic, and at the beginning the protestants weren't always clearly divided from the Roman catholics. I am not necessarily saying that Protestants shouldn't have clearly divided off yet, but the reasoning behind their rise in this timeline doesn't seem to be clearly thought out. Why are we already going into holy war--especially when the war in central europe has Roman Catholics on both sides. Roman Catholic Hungary and Bavaria vs. Roman Catholic Poland and Austria and Lutheran Brandenburg does not a holy war make.
Anyway, this part of the update doesn't seem to flow from what's been going on at all, unless one of the players has been ordering wholescale religious persecutions.
Could the Bishop of Rome in character declare his position relative to the protestants and the specific nature of his reforms?
IC
Venice, though we have long prayed for your destruction, recent events have made us change our minds regarding you.
Would you be interested in an official peace treaty?
Basil, King of Greece, Defender of the Orthodox, Defender of Orthodoxy.
Abaddon
Deity
Not being rude, but why continue to alter such stats? They effect everyone the same way so i dont see reason to alter them..this change penalises those who had controlled their nations confidance, and supports those who did nothing about it.
Fleet costs do make sense however
Fleet costs do make sense however
alcinicia
Chieftain
From:France
To: Venice
We mourn with you for the loss of your men in Constantinople. Much as we distrusted you, you have proven your mettle and your zeal for the safety of Christendom.
Therefore, we offer you a treaty of peace and security in our respective present borders in perpetuity.
Francois, Roiu de France, Roi de Napoli
To: Venice
We mourn with you for the loss of your men in Constantinople. Much as we distrusted you, you have proven your mettle and your zeal for the safety of Christendom.
Therefore, we offer you a treaty of peace and security in our respective present borders in perpetuity.
Francois, Roiu de France, Roi de Napoli
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,078
OOC: Perhaps by trying to reconcile with the Protestants, you're making the Papacy seem weak, thus encouraging more to convert to it, hoping you'll accept their demands too?
~Darkening~
Weep, Mother.
To the Second Secretary to Zhu Yuanyi, Great Ming
From Lhasa
To do such as you proposed is to support their war, and as such, we can not participate. We shall remain neutral, through ever diligent in the defense of our borders.
From Lhasa
To do such as you proposed is to support their war, and as such, we can not participate. We shall remain neutral, through ever diligent in the defense of our borders.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
Wait... I was under the assumption that Fleets 20+ would cost 1 EP! I mean, I thought it had the same price as armies... It should be 20+!!!
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,078
To Lhasa
From Ming China
Ming has not said it supports the war with Bengal, and it hopes the war comes to a swift conclusion. It does, however, wish to see the Silk Road completed. It has contributed much, and will contribute more as it not only completes the parts of the Road in China, but parts in Tibet too. Any expenditure would be repaid by the Mughals, should they agree, when the Indian War is finished.
From Ming China
Ming has not said it supports the war with Bengal, and it hopes the war comes to a swift conclusion. It does, however, wish to see the Silk Road completed. It has contributed much, and will contribute more as it not only completes the parts of the Road in China, but parts in Tibet too. Any expenditure would be repaid by the Mughals, should they agree, when the Indian War is finished.
To answer several questions about claiming new lands:
Any player is certainly free to claiim ownership of any land they are aware of. Such a claim though does not color those lands to match the home nation. Land claims based upon "declaration" are only as valid as the nations that honor them. For example, the Philippines according to the agreements between Spain and Portugal in RL belonged to Portugal. Spain took it. Spain did not have much interest in Brazil. Regarless of Spanish and Portuguese claims the Dutch, English and French all occuppied islands in the Caribbean.
The 19th C concept of spheres of influence and claiming huge areas in Africa was based on legal and diplomatic infrastructures that did not exist in the 16th C.
To get an area colored to match your nation you need to actually take possession of it and maintain that possession with troops or settlers. For example, early in this NES Portugal settled a couple of spots in east Africa and built forts there. they maintained a local presence and had some purple land around those forts. That area has not grown very much, because there is no reason for it to grow.
In this NES ownership/control/coloration is founded on occupation by troops with a base of operation or settlers who live there. Kalmar has been adding settlers to New Sweden and it has steadily grown in size (more area colored yellow). New Sweden can certainly claim all the land to the west as far as they want, but I will ignore that claim until they actually have people there or send explorers to map it.
Also keep in mind that much of the world is terribly inhospitable. Australia, central Africa, the Amazon, the Namid, the Sahara are still very unsettled for good reasons. Sending 5,000 troops to "conquer" the Amazon basin is a foolish endeavor. To begin, there is nothing to conquer. There are no roads, cities or population centers take control of. Keeping a party of 50 alive is tough enough let alone 5,000. The two TPs now on the coast of Rossoa (Brazil) are the first steps to actually exert influence over the interior. That was how it was done in RL regarless of what was colored on the maps of the day.
Some of you are used to typical NESes where conquest is very simple and quick. That will not work here. I am sorry that I cannot read every set of orders and discuss with players why what they have ordered will not happen, before I update. I try to compensate for wasted EP in other ways: adding back to the players bank, or building a TP where none was ordered.
I do try to explain ways to do things in posts like this or through pms. My goal is not to keep things secret, but often I cannot predict what players will do before they do it and so I cannot address it before the orders are written. Many of you ask lots of questions in pms looking for explanations. I try to answer them all.
EDIT: I will add elements of this post the "How to do things post".
Any player is certainly free to claiim ownership of any land they are aware of. Such a claim though does not color those lands to match the home nation. Land claims based upon "declaration" are only as valid as the nations that honor them. For example, the Philippines according to the agreements between Spain and Portugal in RL belonged to Portugal. Spain took it. Spain did not have much interest in Brazil. Regarless of Spanish and Portuguese claims the Dutch, English and French all occuppied islands in the Caribbean.
The 19th C concept of spheres of influence and claiming huge areas in Africa was based on legal and diplomatic infrastructures that did not exist in the 16th C.
To get an area colored to match your nation you need to actually take possession of it and maintain that possession with troops or settlers. For example, early in this NES Portugal settled a couple of spots in east Africa and built forts there. they maintained a local presence and had some purple land around those forts. That area has not grown very much, because there is no reason for it to grow.
In this NES ownership/control/coloration is founded on occupation by troops with a base of operation or settlers who live there. Kalmar has been adding settlers to New Sweden and it has steadily grown in size (more area colored yellow). New Sweden can certainly claim all the land to the west as far as they want, but I will ignore that claim until they actually have people there or send explorers to map it.
Also keep in mind that much of the world is terribly inhospitable. Australia, central Africa, the Amazon, the Namid, the Sahara are still very unsettled for good reasons. Sending 5,000 troops to "conquer" the Amazon basin is a foolish endeavor. To begin, there is nothing to conquer. There are no roads, cities or population centers take control of. Keeping a party of 50 alive is tough enough let alone 5,000. The two TPs now on the coast of Rossoa (Brazil) are the first steps to actually exert influence over the interior. That was how it was done in RL regarless of what was colored on the maps of the day.
Some of you are used to typical NESes where conquest is very simple and quick. That will not work here. I am sorry that I cannot read every set of orders and discuss with players why what they have ordered will not happen, before I update. I try to compensate for wasted EP in other ways: adding back to the players bank, or building a TP where none was ordered.
I do try to explain ways to do things in posts like this or through pms. My goal is not to keep things secret, but often I cannot predict what players will do before they do it and so I cannot address it before the orders are written. Many of you ask lots of questions in pms looking for explanations. I try to answer them all.
EDIT: I will add elements of this post the "How to do things post".
It has been free so far and I made it 15 and 30 because ships are expensive. Should I charge Ayutthaya for previous unpaid upkeep?
~Darkening~
Weep, Mother.
To Ming China
From Lhasa
We have stated simply that we will not deliver funds to those who place value in death and destruction. We will, however, continue to link our regions so that when the time comes, our kingdom will be fully prepared. And, as it was said, Lhasa is but a small and poor kingdom- wasn't it you who offered to assist in our portion of construction before? Now you wish for us to turn around and assist another people?
EDIT:
I say you should change him for everything possible.
From Lhasa
We have stated simply that we will not deliver funds to those who place value in death and destruction. We will, however, continue to link our regions so that when the time comes, our kingdom will be fully prepared. And, as it was said, Lhasa is but a small and poor kingdom- wasn't it you who offered to assist in our portion of construction before? Now you wish for us to turn around and assist another people?
EDIT:
I say you should change him for everything possible
.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
To Ming China
From Ayutthaya
We too echo Lhasa's sentiments. We humbly request that the Emperor of All Under Heaven do not fund the Mughals in their completion of the Silk Road. It would show all under Heaven perhaps the favoritism the Ming Emperor shows upon the Mughals against the Bengalis.
By supporting the Mughals through building their Silk Road to improve their economy, you aid them in their war. Your vassal of Ayutthaya, along with Cambodia, Laos, Champa, Pegu, Pagan and other states humbly protest and request the Dragon Throne withdraw their offer of aid to the Mughals.
From Ayutthaya
We too echo Lhasa's sentiments. We humbly request that the Emperor of All Under Heaven do not fund the Mughals in their completion of the Silk Road. It would show all under Heaven perhaps the favoritism the Ming Emperor shows upon the Mughals against the Bengalis.
By supporting the Mughals through building their Silk Road to improve their economy, you aid them in their war. Your vassal of Ayutthaya, along with Cambodia, Laos, Champa, Pegu, Pagan and other states humbly protest and request the Dragon Throne withdraw their offer of aid to the Mughals.
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