JoseM
Roman Emperor
Joseph Stalin was not russian... he was Georgian
Bismarck vs Hitler: End of debate!
- Thread starter MAS
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Joseph Stalin was not russian... he was Georgian
Bismarck
The Iron Chancellor
Originally posted by JoseM
Joseph Stalin was not russian... he was Georgian
Catherine was German not Russian (as Zachriel recently pointed out to me
)Nobody in his/her right mind will agree Hitler to be the leader of Germany. A more arguble thing is whether he is qualified to be a 'great' leader. I think he is, especially on hurry productions.
And if a Chinese American becomes the president of America, we shouldn't say, hey, he is not American, he's Chinese.
And if a Chinese American becomes the president of America, we shouldn't say, hey, he is not American, he's Chinese.
EuropeanPotato
Warlord
Go von Bismark. Hitler was concerned more about building bombs and weapons instead of feeding Germans. There was a food shortage... Bismark wasn't as ideologically extreme to my knowledge. Bismark wasn't actually a Kaiser or King or President but he pretty much still called shots when Wilhelm I was around.
Wilhelm II was a crazy invalid and released(I know theres a better word) von Bismark from his duties. Wilhelm II trying to be a big man.... foolish a lot of his plans turned out to be... I.E. lapse for Soviet-Dutch protection pact w/o renewal. --Oh I've seemed to have trailed off there. Go.. Bismark.
Wilhelm II was a crazy invalid and released(I know theres a better word) von Bismark from his duties. Wilhelm II trying to be a big man.... foolish a lot of his plans turned out to be... I.E. lapse for Soviet-Dutch protection pact w/o renewal. --Oh I've seemed to have trailed off there. Go.. Bismark.
EuropeanPotato
Warlord
relieved*!
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
this hardly ended the debbate 
planetfall
Emperor
Originally posted by Bismarck
And of course, Bismarck is the perfect industrial leader (his name is almost synonymous with "great statesman"
Agreed Bismark would be excellent for industrial era. Better than my choice. I just want to present the idea that each Era should have a different great leader. Actually carrying this the next step, we should not see Cleo and Joan all 4 eras but should have a different civ leader for each era.
Just another RFE for Firaxis.
== PF
Tiger_Nation
Warlord
I reckon bismark because before him techinly there was not a Germany but a bunch of states the stupid ones for me are babylon persia russia and france babylon should have the guy who built the hanging gardens can't remember his name but it bagan with m. Persia acording to civopedia actually failed to conquer under xerces but not knowing much about them i can't exactly offer an opinion on who to eplace him. Russia should have lenin. France should have napoleon.
Tiger_Nation
Warlord
oh and egypt should have ramsees
Siegmund
King
Seems to me that the leaders in Civ3 have been chosen not just as "this culture's greatest leader" but instead, as the embodiment of that civ's special qualities. (Joan of Arc as a national leader is a bit of a stretch -- but because France is a *religious* civ, she is chosen ... a more military France would get Napoleon or Charlemagne or someone ... a cultural France might get Louis XIV.)
Getting back to Germany .. in Civ1, Frederick was perhaps the "most civilized" of all of the leaders - and, unfortunately, despite his cultural achievements, Germany in Civ1 came across as a harmless sissy nation, useful to have in one corner of your continent to trade with and not cause trouble.
Civ3's Germany is scientific and militarist. Hitler or Barbarossa represent the militarist side very well, but the golden age of German chemistry, medicine, and engineering was the 19th century up up WWI. This was also the one time that Germany did a lot of colonial expansion - unlike other European countries that did that centuries earlier.
Why the chancellor and the not the kaiser? Maybe because Bismarck was about the only great *diplomat* Germany had - there were plenty of great generals from the 18th century onwards... but WWI was caused by, and lost by, people like Wilhelm spouting off at the mouth and offending his neighbors. Bismarck is a fine choice, for representing a balance --- and if Germany had had more Bismarcks and fewer Wilhelm IIs and Hitlers it would be a much bigger and better country today, I think.
Getting back to Germany .. in Civ1, Frederick was perhaps the "most civilized" of all of the leaders - and, unfortunately, despite his cultural achievements, Germany in Civ1 came across as a harmless sissy nation, useful to have in one corner of your continent to trade with and not cause trouble.
Civ3's Germany is scientific and militarist. Hitler or Barbarossa represent the militarist side very well, but the golden age of German chemistry, medicine, and engineering was the 19th century up up WWI. This was also the one time that Germany did a lot of colonial expansion - unlike other European countries that did that centuries earlier.
Why the chancellor and the not the kaiser? Maybe because Bismarck was about the only great *diplomat* Germany had - there were plenty of great generals from the 18th century onwards... but WWI was caused by, and lost by, people like Wilhelm spouting off at the mouth and offending his neighbors. Bismarck is a fine choice, for representing a balance --- and if Germany had had more Bismarcks and fewer Wilhelm IIs and Hitlers it would be a much bigger and better country today, I think.
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