Blacks outside Africa

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Other option to be an Haitian Unique Unit is a Voodo Priest. Since Voodoo is kind of unique of Haiti (it's also have in Dahomey).
And Jamaica could also have a religion unique unit as a Rastafari priest.

I'd represent Voodoo with a unique Holy Site, the Lakou, that lets you produce a Vodou Ritual city project. After completion it provides faith and production towards units in the city.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I'd represent Voodoo with a unique Holy Site, the Lakou, that lets you produce a Vodou Ritual city project. After completion it provides faith and production towards units in the city.

I rly like your idea, maybe representing voodoo in a unique building is a cool idea.
But when I'm design Haiti on my mind, I tought it's unique building could be something also militaristic as the Citadelle Laferrière:

But maybe la Citadelle Laferrière could be also a wonder who everyone can build.


Still thinking about voodoo priest, it can have two abilities, healing faster ally units and diminish the atk of enemy unit. Both at same time at an unit who can stuck with militar units would be an amazing ability.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I rly like your idea, maybe representing voodoo in a unique building is a cool idea.
But when I'm design Haiti on my mind, I tought it's unique building could be something also militaristic as the Citadelle Laferrière:

[/URL]
But maybe la Citadelle Laferrière could be also a wonder who everyone can build.

Citadelle Laferriere makes more sense as a world wonder, considering there's only one.

Considering Voudou was heavily involved in starting the Haitian Revolution, I thought it was appropriate by helping it spawn military units too. I also find overly miltaristic civs boring and by giving them a unique Holy Site, which could focus on faith and culture, wouldn't make them one dimensional.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Hello people, I just discover more one civ who could fit in the tier Blacks Outside Africa.
And they are the innahbitants of the island of Bougainville.

I just watch a documentary about they and was astonished how they are not well know and this game have the power to empodering their history.
They want the independence of Papua New Guinea and Western countries as Australia is fighting against their will of freedom

 

[Caesar of Bread]

even the holocaust of Hitler isn't so terrible as Transatlantic slave trade.

Both were equally bad. Two of the worst crimes in history, if not the worst two EVER.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Hello people, I just discover more one civ who could fit in the tier Blacks Outside Africa.
And they are the innahbitants of the island of Bougainville.

I just watch a documentary about they and was astonished how they are not well know and this game have the power to empodering their history.
They want the independence of Papua New Guinea and Western countries as Australia is fighting against their will of freedom

Interesting!

I‘ve learned a bit about Malik Ambar, and I still can‘t make a civ out of Ahmednagar.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Both were equally bad. Two of the worst crimes in history, if not the worst two EVER.

Okay, I need to admit isn't a wise idea compare humans atrocities.

I‘ve learned a bit about Malik Ambar, and I still can‘t make a civ out of Ahmednagar.

I still thinking Malik Ambar is a great name to a civ, because a good leader is needed to do a civ and Ahmednagar have it.
And also most of players want to desunited India in several civs. I guess if India become 5 civs, one easily can be Ahmednagar.

 

[Patine]

Hello people, I just discover more one civ who could fit in the tier Blacks Outside Africa.
And they are the innahbitants of the island of Bougainville.

I just watch a documentary about they and was astonished how they are not well know and this game have the power to empodering their history.
They want the independence of Papua New Guinea and Western countries as Australia is fighting against their will of freedom

Papuans, Melanesians, and Australian Aboriginals are not, "Blacks Outside Africa," they're different Anthropological Races, entirely, with no historical connection to Africa, either directly or through being moved by Colonialism, and have notably and distinctiively different traits, and do not consider themselves related to Africans, or under the, "Black," or, "Negroid," banner of the outmoded, "Three-Race System," of that racist German natural scientist of the 19th Century, anymore than Dravidians in India and Sri Lanka do, and see themselves as their own people and heritage. Only White Australians tend to call them, "Black."

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Papuans, Melanesians, and Australian Aboriginals are not, "Blacks Outside Africa," they're different Anthropological Races, entirely, with no historical connection to Africa, either directly or through being moved by Colonialism, and have notably and distinctiively different traits, and do not consider themselves related to Africans, or under the, "Black," or, "Negroid," banner of the outmoded, "Three-Race System," of that racist German natural scientist of the 19th Century, anymore than Dravidians in India and Sri Lanka do, and see themselves as their own people and heritage. Only White Australians tend to call them, "Black."

Oh.

 

[HktkNban]

It seems odd to limit black people to only Negroid (African-American) people.
If "black people" are defined as "dark-skinned people," then both Negroid and Australoid should be included in the black people category.

However, Negroid is a race that evolved in Africa, whereas Australoid is a race that left Africa and then expanded throughout the world via Sundaland.
Therefore, it is scientifically incorrect to equate Negroid and Australoid as the "same black race". They are different races and have evolved differently.

However, Negroids are often treated as "a pitiful race that has suffered from racism and slavery", while Australoids are often treated as "people who just have dark skin and don't matter".
Black people in Africa are politically important; black people in Oceania are not politically important.

 

[Patine]

It seems odd to limit black people to only Negroid (African-American) people.
If "black people" are defined as "dark-skinned people," then both Negroid and Australoid should be included in the black people category.

However, Negroid is a race that evolved in Africa, whereas Australoid is a race that left Africa and then expanded throughout the world via Sundaland.
Therefore, it is scientifically incorrect to equate Negroid and Australoid as the "same black race". They are different races and have evolved differently.

However, Negroids are often treated as "a pitiful race that has suffered from racism and slavery", while Australoids are often treated as "people who just have dark skin and don't matter".
Black people in Africa are politically important; black people in Oceania are not politically important.

Negroid is the term used the said racist German naturalsit from the 19th Century with his, "Three-Race Theory," and is obsolete as a term and notion.

And, I didn't, anywhere, say Papauans, Melanesians, or Australian Aborigines, "don't matter," (where did that presumption come from?), but that they were a different race and a different matter those of the African Race, and see themselves as such, and shouldn't be lumped in for, "convenience."

 

[Henri Christophe]

Papuans, Melanesians, and Australian Aboriginals are not, "Blacks Outside Africa," they're different Anthropological Races, entirely, with no historical connection to Africa

As far I know, there are blacks on Oceania because they was the first human being to go out of Africa, at a time where all humans was black.
The route they take pass by south India, that's the why there is also black people in south India.
Also at the time Papua New Guinea and Australia was connect by land with Asia, so they just walk through.

Other evidence to call Oceanian's native as black can be found in ethimology.
Papua New Guinea have the "New Guinea" at in the name on reference the first black territory found by Portugueses in Africa and Guinea was a generic name to Africa and Papua received this name of New Guinea because it's innahibitants are black.
Melanesia also have a name to us remember they are black, because what make the blacks, blacks, is the melanina of the skin, and Melanesia is a derivation of the word melanina.

There is two option to explain why there is Oceania people black, maybe they can be directly linked with africans (what I believed happens in pre-historic times) or maybe it is a convergent evolution (the same who explain why Dolphins and Sharks are very similar despite have origins totally differents). I don't believe in convergent evolution to blacks on Oceania, but I also don't have evidence to desconsider this hypothesis.

Because in pre historic all humans was black, some humans start to intermix with other species of humans, as for example the europeans white who is the result of intermix with humans and neanderthais.

It seems odd to limit black people to only Negroid (African-American) people.
If "black people" are defined as "dark-skinned people," then both Negroid and Australoid should be included in the black people category.

However, Negroid is a race that evolved in Africa, whereas Australoid is a race that left Africa and then expanded throughout the world via Sundaland.
Therefore, it is scientifically incorrect to equate Negroid and Australoid as the "same black race". They are different races and have evolved differently.

However, Negroids are often treated as "a pitiful race that has suffered from racism and slavery", while Australoids are often treated as "people who just have dark skin and don't matter".
Black people in Africa are politically important; black people in Oceania are not politically important.

I guess this friend explain also very well what I think, black is a color and is associated a "dark-skinned people" as he said.
And some people of Oceania is even more black then some ethinicities of Africans, as Khoisan or Ethiopians.

And as his pointed out, Black Africans seems to be more political important then Black Oceanians.
And a game as Civilization could empoder both histories.

 

[Evie]

The leading theory is simply that lighter skin offered evolutionary advantages for people living in more northerly regions, versus darker skin in more equatorial regions (due to varying levels of sun exposure), so various mutations that resulted in lighter skins can be observed in those regions.

And that's largely true for any racial group you can think of - East Asian complexions tend toward darker shades in southern populations and lighter shades in the North, Indigenous American complexions the same, European complexions the same, South Asian complexions the same. The darker the further south you get, the paler further north.

None of these darker-skinned people are "black" in any of the commonly understood senses of the terms, nor do they have a closer connection to Africa than the lighter-skinned people of the same "race" (East Asian, Indigenous Americans, etc).

The ideas that paleness represent neanderthal traits, or that darker people have a more direct link to Africa, are not generally supported by reasonable scholarships.

 

[Patine]

Other evidence to call Oceanian's native as black can be found in ethimology.
Papua New Guinea have the "New Guinea" at in the name on reference the first black territory found by Portugueses in Africa and Guinea was a generic name to Africa and Papua received this name of New Guinea because it's innahibitants are black.
Melanesia also have a name to us remember they are black, because what make the blacks, blacks, is the melanina of the skin, and Melanesia is a derivation of the word melanina.

@Evie is right. As well, I notice none of these etymologies are from Papuan, Melanesian, or Australian Aboriginal languages, but from terms used by Colonists.

 

[Henri Christophe]

@Evie is right. As well, I notice none of these etymologies are from Papuan, Melanesian, or Australian Aboriginal languages, but from terms used by Colonists.

Of course the named was used by colonist, the concept of Black just appear in humankind after the transatlantic slave trade.
Before the colonist Africans and Papuans didn't know they are Black.

 

[Patine]

Of course the named was used by colonist, the concept of Black just appear in humankind after the transatlantic slave trade.
Before the colonist Africans and Papuans didn't know they are Black.

And, that concept died when the racist German naturalist's, "Three-Race System," became outmoded, debunked, obsolete, and no longer valid terminology. These people knew who they were (and still know who they are) without being told they were people from some faraway place they'd never heard have in a more direct sense than most other people by racist Colonists.

 

[Henri Christophe]

And, that concept died when the racist German naturalist's, "Three-Race System," became outmoded, debunked, obsolete, and no longer valid terminology. These people knew who they were (and still know who they are) without being told they were people from some faraway place they'd never heard have in a more direct sense than most other people by racist Colonists.

That concept didn't die with this German naturalist of 3 races system as you insist too much.
The Blacks, after the contact with Europeans, suffer racism every where... and was the europeans who created the racist concept of races you say it's outmoded, but it don't seems to be outmoded when a Black person suffer racism. If this concept was outmoded the qualifity of life of Blacks and Whites should be the same nowadays and it isn't. I hope one day this racist concept will be outmoded when we have the same life quality to Blacks and Whites around the world, but for now iniciatives as Quotas to Black people is needed in all scopes.

 

[Patine]

That concept didn't die with this German naturalist of 3 races system as you insist too much.
The Blacks, after the contact with Europeans, suffer racism every where... and was the europeans who created the racist concept of races you say it's outmoded, but it don't seems to be outmoded when a Black person suffer racism. If this concept was outmoded the qualifity of life of Blacks and Whites should be the same nowadays and it isn't. I hope one day this racist concept will be outmoded when we have the same life quality to Blacks and Whites around the world, but for now iniciatives as Quotas to Black people is needed in all scopes.

You're now talking about a different issue that is not exactly the same, or an real fit to the issue at hand. And, the issue you're bringing up now is an OT issue, not an issue around Black civ's outside Africa for Civ games.

 

[luca 83]

I also make it "gamial". Haiti has the accomplishment of start the end of world slavery and be the only enslaved nation to rise in power, fight against France, Spain, and UK at same time and won. ANd I would have fun to play with they.

For me is very fun to see representativety. But I don't miss just Blacks of Diaspora, but I also miss native americans in the lack of this game diversity.



Is incomparable the two examples, nothing in the world was worst than the transatlantic slavery. And we also had Jim Crow laws in America and Apartheid in Africa and just finish just recently.

If this game have the power to do something in respect of it, why not do it? This game have much power, for example, I just know about Iroquois and Zulus because this game, I'm sure if this game choice someblack nation of diaspora will make more players learn about cool afro-american civs and empodering they.

I have nothing against black civilizations, indeed, slavery can be an excellent mechanic, but you have to create trade, of slaves between Africa and the Americas, the CIA called golden triangle : slaves, for gold, colonial products, gold, slaves, the birth of colonial leaders, even non-black in the independence of South American and post-colonial African and colonial nations, in general . You could put for minority populations forms of discrimination

 

[Patine]

I have nothing against black civilizations, indeed, slavery can be an excellent mechanic, but you have to create trade, of slaves between Africa and the Americas, the CIA called golden triangle : slaves, for gold, colonial products, gold, slaves, the birth of colonial leaders, even non-black in the independence of South American and post-colonial African and colonial nations, in general . You could put for minority populations forms of discrimination

Once again, you're insisting on specific, precise historic events being scripted into the game so each and every playing of the game will come across it, in what is supposed to be a more free-form, build up a civ from a base as you will, strong on alternate history possibilities, with loose observance to historical strictness type of 4X game?. I ask again, are you sure you're playing the right game for your tastes?