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Black-American Civilizations!

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I just found more one Afro-American civilization.
Gullah/Geechee civilization.

Location:
daughters-of-the-dust-1.jpg


And they have a Queen!
Marquetta Goodwine, the Queen Quet.
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No hard feelings. I personally love the history of America and Classical/Medieval Medaratian/Europe So I'm mostly happy with the in-game civs.
If you really love American history, you should agree the America is underrepresented. Blacks are also American.
 
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I meant U.S. history which has some great blacks, M.L.K. (A man I admire), Madam C.J. Walker (first female billionaire), and Samual L. Jackson, just to name a few. Though I do enjoy the history of natives and the South Americas, U.S. (Especially 1700s-1800s) holds a special place in my heart. I love stories of the American Revolution, Founding Fathers, War of 1812, and civil war.
 
I meant U.S. history which has some great blacks, M.L.K. (A man I admire), Madam C.J. Walker (first female billionaire), and Samual L. Jackson, just to name a few. Though I do enjoy the history of natives and the South Americas, U.S. (Especially 1700s-1800s) holds a special place in my heart. I love stories of the American Revolution, Founding Fathers, War of 1812, and civil war.
I discover about 1812 war because this video.

I really like how US-American look to their natives, they can don't like, but most of them have respect as honorable foe.
I guess it after read and saw all movies about The Last of the Mohicans and just one I though it is a bit racist.
In this cartoon just white man have gunpowder weapons and the Native American is using just pre-historical weapons, some as bow, I don't think it was in use around ~ 1700.

I remember how I was happy the first time I take a look in Civilopedia and saw Shoshone's Unique Unit as an Indigenous Knight using a Winchester 22.
Here in Brazil we don't respect both, Black and Native Americnas alike. If an Indian have any stuf who isn't prehistoric, Brazilian would say they are not more an Indian.
The race ideas of US-America allow your people to 'respect' a bit more your natives than us.

There are a Brazilian-Indian-Philosopher called Ailton Krenak, he often says he is a ghost, because in Brazilian historiography his nation is already extinct.
 
How About not a Afro-American Civilization BUT a Americo-African Civ:crazyeye:
The Agudás
resized_Agouda.Porto-Novo.Benim_.2010.Ph-Milton-Guran.bx_.jpg

This is the only nation, as far I know, who is made by Americans outside America.
After a Muslim revolt in Brazil at 1835, all Black who be able to read, don't matter if Portuguese or Arabish, was depported back to Africa, to the city of Ouidah.
When the Agudás arrived in Dahomey at 1835 it was ruled by Guezo and his Brazilian "Vizir" Francisco Félix de Souza.
Francisco Félix de Souza born in Bahia and it was portraited as the same picture as Garibaldi (the Italian unificator) and he is Chachá I
Nowadays ruler of Agudá society is Honoré Feliciano Julião de Souza, Chachá VIII.
fam%C3%ADlia-Souza-em-Uid%C3%A1-Benim.-Em-1o-plano-Honor%C3%A9-Feliciano-Juli%C3%A3o-de-Souza-chefe-da-fam%C3%ADlia..jpg
 
Can we not select civs because they are black? They are not under represented in the game so there is really no need for this "righteous" request specifically for black civs.

I count 5 black civs and 2 native american civs and 4 south american civs. Overall The game is pretty diverse. i believe i can genuinely say atm civ6 does need anymore black civs. You might not think it... but yeah civ6 currently has enough black civs.

The irony is the seminoles would be great but not because they are even black but native american...

On the side, i believe ancient greek slavery was very much racist. They thought non greeks deserved it cause they were lesser "barbarians." That sounds familar. Pre civil war americans were not the first and only people to ever think the others as inferior and deserved the condition.
 
Also the first case of racial slavery was against the Slavic peoples. (The word slave literally comes from the word Slavic)
 
Can we not select civs because they are black? They are not under represented in the game so there is really no need for this "righteous" request specifically for black civs.

I count 5 black civs and 2 native american civs and 4 south american civs. Overall The game is pretty diverse. i believe i can genuinely say atm civ6 does need anymore black civs. You might not think it... but yeah civ6 currently has enough black civs.
Half of the leaders are caucasian, how is it well balanced?
JgVVQ1.png

It has more White-Protestant Leaders as Black and Native American together.
The irony is the seminoles would be great but not because they are even black but native american...
I can't understand this issue, the Seminole is a mix race, they are cool because they are both at same time, Black and Native Americans.
Look John Horse, Seminole Leader when Andrew Jackson "conquer" Florida. Is he Black or Native American?
gjcompzz.jpg

I would answer neither, he is a Seminole. He is neither Black and neither Native American, he is what he is, a mix race, a new-era Seminole.
On the side, i believe ancient greek slavery was very much racist. They thought non greeks deserved it cause they were lesser "barbarians." That sounds familar. Pre civil war americans were not the first and only people to ever think the others as inferior and deserved the condition.

Greek don't have knowledge about races, they never was racist, it isn't a thing at the time. Plato was slave for while, and it doesn't make him better or worst then others, because slave in old greece. Even when Plato was a Slave, he should be treated better than Germans, because Greeks are better than Germans don't matter it they are slaves or not, but in old Greece a Germanic Slave is really not welcomed.

Just trans-Atlantic Slavery understand a slave as object, any other kind of slavery in human history made such thing, Trans-Atlantic Slavery don't have no similar in human history.
And, as the only Un-human Slavery, it is also the only slavery who was defeated by the Slaves, Haiti still surviving, still fight, the last White Man invasion was untill the end of 2nd World War. Quilombo dos Palmares just survive ~100 years:sad:

Also the first case of racial slavery was against the Slavic peoples. (The word slave literally comes from the word Slavic)
I love this quote, because who was the Slavic Slaves in Ottoman Empire?
Yes, the Elite Forces of Janissary. I would love be a Slave in Ottoman Empire :lol:
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1804 when Dessalines order the white genocide, he don't kill any Polish, because they are also Slaves under foreign Empire.
 
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I love this quote, because who was the Slavic Slaves in Ottoman Empire?
Yes, the Elite Forces of Janissary. I would love be a Slave in Ottoman Empire :lol:
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1804 when Dessalines order the white genocide, he don't kill any Polish, because they are also Slaves under foreign Empire.

I'm asking you nicely to stop your racist revisionist erasure of Native American cultures to contrive up whole "Afro-American civilizations" that, in truth, were genuine Native American ethnicities who, at best, had a notable minority with mixed blood from escaped slaves they generally welcomed into their number. Your ulterior motives are blatantly overt and transparent. Haitians, Geechee, and Anglo-Caribbean cultures are good examples of what your aiming at - but beyond that, you've gone way too far.
 
I'm asking you nicely to stop your racist revisionist erasure of Native American cultures to contrive up whole "Afro-American civilizations" that, in truth, were genuine Native American ethnicities who, at best, had a notable minority with mixed blood from escaped slaves they generally welcomed into their number. Your ulterior motives are blatantly overt and transparent. Haitians, Geechee, and Anglo-Caribbean cultures are good examples of what your aiming at - but beyond that, you've gone way too far.
Hello Patine, how is you doing? I remember you when I argue if Haiti can be or not can be considered as an Empire.
If you want to speak about racial issues let's do it at this link. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/historical-argument-that-was-in-the-wrong-forum.659194/

isn't my racist revisionism. I'm Brazilian, I don't understand races as US-American.
Here in Brazil we have the "Myth of 3 races", it is builded by Gilberto Freyere in his book "Casa Grande e Senzala".
In Brazil we believe we are formed by the Native Americans (Tupi-Guarani, Jê), Blacks (Bantos from Angola<Kongo and Ndongo> and Yoruba) and by Portuguisish.
BUT, the myth says we are the mix of theses race, none of them. For example, an Yanomami in the Amazon Rainforest or a German/Italian in South-Brazil isn't Brazilian while he isn't mix.
Indeed, when I travel to Rio Grande do Sul some people call me as "The Brazilian", as I said before, I'm a mix race Carioca.
Most of Brazilian just believe in this myth, as I. Because for me is very weird to realize how US-American thing about this issue.
This isn't my revision, I'm just one regular Brazilian who think about that and play Civilization.

Also the first case of racial slavery was against the Slavic peoples. (The word slave literally comes from the word Slavic)
Still about that, because I really love this Slavic issue.
The Unique Unit of Haiti Empire may can be the Polish Legion
polish-soldier.jpg
They are the Royal Elite Forces of Dessalines, by the way, why this game never made a foreign troop of one nation as an Unique Unit?
Napoleon had the Mameluk fighters, British Empire had some Indian forces in WW2.

French Senegal Troops forged the French Empire on Africa, for example.
 
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isn't my racist revisionism. I'm Brazilian, I don't understand races as US-American.
He is most likely speaking solely about the Seminoles, which I and others have tried to explain to you that the Seminole are not a mixed race. John Horse indeed was a mix of African and Seminole (Native American), but that does not mean all of them were.

Also George Biassou also had nothing to do with Seminoles either. He actually fought them allying with the Spanish in Florida.
 
He is most likely speaking solely about the Seminoles, which I and others have tried to explain to you that the Seminole are not a mixed race. John Horse indeed was a mix of African and Seminole (Native American), but that does not mean all of them were.

Also George Biassou also had nothing to do with Seminoles either. He actually fought them allying with the Spanish in Florida.

I was also referring to the Miskito and Garifuna, who welcomed escaped slaves into their communities, and had a notable number - but still a definite minority - who had mixed blood, that @Henri Christophe also declared suddenly made them "Afro-American civilizations."
 
your classifications are way off dude. Half of those civs aren't in the right spot. Aztec = Mongalish???
 
Also George Biassou also had nothing to do with Seminoles either. He actually fought them allying with the Spanish in Florida.
I also still learning and also don't know that well about Florida history, but as far I already know, had one guy called Negro Abraham who is also a mix race Seminole who link the George Biassou history with the Seminole.
http://www.johnhorse.com/trail/05/conclusion.htm
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As far I know, the Spanish Empire are cool with the Seminole, the Spanish Empire aid the Black revolution, is that the why George Biassou was in the Spanish side. (George Biassou was of the first Haiti triunvirato and was betrayed by L'Overture and move with the Spaniards to Florida and still fighting their.)


I was also referring to the Miskito and Garifuna, who welcomed escaped slaves into their communities, and had a notable number - but still a definite minority - who had mixed blood, that @Henri Christophe also declared suddenly made them "Afro-American civilizations."

As a game issue, we can just considered this persons a potencial leaders to a Civ. Of course what took my atention to the Seminole and to the Miskito is their African heritage, as a Brazilian I can't understand the problem of a person be proud of two different heritages.

Miskitos, as far I know, think about they self as better than other Maya nations because they are a mix-race. Neither Black or Maya, but Miskitos.

your classifications are way off dude. Half of those civs aren't in the right spot. Aztec = Mongalish???
When I Draw I try to not enter in the Native America racial issue, I made it the most simple I can.

I guess most American believe in the Beringer migration, if this theory is true, we can assume all native americans had a Mongol-heritage.
BUT, I don't believe that much in Beringer theory and I believe some Blacks from Melanesia and Australia may can arrive to Americas by the sea routes. Túpac Yupanqui when conquer Quito speak about Black People who came from the Pacif Ocean, Túpac Yupanqui also made a voyage to Eastern Island.

The oldest skull finded in Americas was in Brazil and it is Black.
cranio%20pre%20historia.jpg
 
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I was also referring to the Miskito and Garifuna, who welcomed escaped slaves into their communities, and had a notable number - but still a definite minority - who had mixed blood, that @Henri Christophe also declared suddenly made them "Afro-American civilizations."
I admit I don't have enough knowledge of the Caribbean/Central America to know if it was true or not.

your classifications are way off dude. Half of those civs aren't in the right spot. Aztec = Mongalish???
I believe he might be referring to this map which lumps all of the Caucasoid races in green and Mongoloid races as blue. Of course the latter term now is outdated and I believe offensive and it was termed by a German in the late 1700s referring to the majority of people originating from East Asia.

You can see it the article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
 
As a game issue, we can just considered this persons a potencial leaders to a Civ. Of course what took my atention to the Seminole and to the Miskito is their African heritage, as a Brazilian I can't understand the problem of a person be proud of two different heritages.

Miskitos, as far I know, think about they self as better than other Maya nations because they are a mix-race. Neither Black or Maya, but Miskitos.

Having a notable but small minority in one's community because a society gave refuge to escaped slaves is not an "African heritage," to the culture as a whole, either genetically or culturally. The concept is ridiculous.

I believe he might be referring to this map which lumps all of the Caucasoid races in green and Mongoloid races as blue. Of course the latter term now is outdated and I believe offensive and it was termed by a German in the late 1700s referring to the majority of people originating from East Asia.

You can see it the article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

Ah, yes, that racist, over-simplified garbage. A system that can (and should) offend every human being on the planet.
 
I believe he might be referring to this map which lumps all of the Caucasoid races in green and Mongoloid races as blue. Of course the latter term now is outdated and I believe offensive and it was termed by a German in the late 1700s referring to the majority of people originating from East Asia.

I agree this Germanic Understanding of races isn't accurate, most because ignores America diversity.
But this game seems to understand the world also as a Germanic.
Just how many Germanic nations there are, and Germany is the only leader who born before the foundaiton of the Civ his leading of, just German have this previlege.
JgVVQ1.png

Once I argue in this forum about Guarani Civ be lead by Solano Lópes, because it fit with Paraguayan mithy of nation, you would agree with that? I don't think so...
Why Germanic heritage can be very well explored and extrapolated and all other cornes of world just receive 5 leaders each,
maybe it is well balanced, we should understand our civilization as something who started in Sumeria, grew with Rome and conquer the world with the Great Empires of Europe. All Leaders able to win this Saga is well represented, and just to be more global, the other 3 corners of the world can have 5 leaders each. Oceania just 1.

Ps. India is also VERY underrepresented, it can have more Civs than all Europe together and just have two leaders who give a idea of an united India.

Once I made a Map about CIV 5 just to try to realize how unbalanced it is.
At time I was upset because I can't set an Africa scenario just with African Civs and I was bored with my America scenarios always with the same and same leaders.
Once I set a North America map, in Civ V, with the Zulus, The Celts, The Danish and all other Americans Civ (USA, Maya, Aztec, Inca, Iroquois and Shoshone) And it was very fun, Zulu born in Lousiana, Denish in Quebec and it was very very fun.
And I start to realize, why doesn't have any Black Civ where I can spot in America as their real location?
I search a bit and just discover the Haitian history, how they was important to human being, how they end the milenar institution of Slavery.
I make an account in this forum and since then I just speak about that here, because it is a very important issue to me.
JgO5Nf.jpg

Today's civilization isn't much better balanced than previous. Of course now I can see White man also in Australia, but still Black just in Africa, far east have the same Civs and America grew in White diversity, Civ 5 had 2 White leaders and now have 4 Whites. Natives still just 5.
 
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We have the Mori in Australia as well and the Mediterranian Civs are just the most famous. Also most no African black nations just haven't reached what I call the peek of a nation.

Before I peace out of this, (To avoid arguing over it for too long) I'd like to state a couple of things;

1. No person is worse than another at recording history based on their, sex, race, or religion.
2. The crossing to the Americas happened so long ago I would count it as a sperate racial group. (Also Asians, not Mongols and Idina is in the wrong place)
3. What I consider a peek of a nation is when it reaches a point of remembrance or importance in the overall world. (Most nations do just not all to the same extent as others and some slower than others)
4. Adding Civs or Units based on their race is stupid. A civ should be added if it has an amazing culture or military or unique game mechanic. (This is a game after all.) That's why I don't expect Denmark when we have Norway. Or Ireland when we have Scottland. (They're different but not to extent that you need both civs)
5. I really would like to see the Powhatan or Cherokee in the game (I know they're not Afro-American but whatever. Okay maybe they have mixed blood IDK) The Cherokee is the only native nation to invent their own writing.

No hard feelings and no offense meant by anything I said. Have fun arguing.

Also, I forgot, Henri your map is wrong ways up LOL.:lol:
 
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Of course now I can see White man also in Australia, but still Black just in Africa, far east have the same Civs and America grew in White diversity, Civ 5 had 2 White leaders and now have 4 Whites. Natives still just 5.

Australian Aborigines, Papuans, and Melanesians, in case you didn't know, don't consider themselves to be racially African, or even related - besides, their hair is the wavy/kinky of South Asians (Indian Subcontinent), not the African curls, and their cheekbones are a bit higher.
 
We have the Mori in Australia as well and the Mediterranian Civs are just the most famous. Also most no African black nations just haven't reached what I call the peek of a nation.
Peek of nation is way more controversial, what you mean with that? Australia and Canada already achieve their peek? They don't even achieve independence... They are in the game because had many white players in Australia and Canada who want to play as their nation, they don't reached any peek, they are here because players want to play with them.
Ps. Mori is a Typo for Maori? Or is it something I just don't know?

Before I peace out of this, (To avoid arguing over it for too long) I'd like to state a couple of things;

1. No person is worse than another at recording history based on their, sex, race, or religion.
AMAZING! I'm Greatfull for that.
2. The crossing to the Americas happened so long ago I would count it as a sperate racial group. (Also Asians, not Mongols and Idina is in the wrong place)
I totally agree on that, America ethincity is very diverse but as just have 5 very different Native-American nation I put all as Mongol-ish to simplify, I guess it should be easier to an US-American to understand, as ALexander Hetaroi said, it is a Germanic way to understand ethinicity.

India is also very diverse, they have two kind of humans, in North they are Caucasian and have an Arian heritage. In South they are Dravidians, what I understand also as a Black ethinicity as the Papua New Guinea. They aren't African, but are Black.
Chandra Gupta is from North India, he has Arian heritage, so is in the right position, as other caucasians.
Gandhi I don't know his background, I just put him next to Chandra Gupta to avoid more controversia.
3. What I consider a peek of a nation is when it reaches a point of remembrance or importance in the overall world. (Most nations do just not all to the same extent as others and some slower than others)
I think Haiti totally fit this peek of a nation idea, because it was the first empire of Caribe, it ends the milenar institution of world slavery, and also it was the first Black Republic of the world, their constitution is the first in the world to say all humans are equals don't matter their collor of skin.
But I don't totally agree about the peek of nation is needed to be a Civ, Georgia never was a great empire, but their strugle to survive and still surviving as nation is the reason why they deserve to be a Civ. But, as we can't have ALL nations in this game, this "peek of nation" can be used to help choice next Civ.
4. Adding Civs or Units based on their race is stupid. A civ should be added if it has an amazing culture or military or unique game mechanic. (This is a game after all.) That's why I don't expect Denmark when we have Norway. Or Ireland when we have Scottland. (They're different but not to extent that you need both civs)
I guess both are important, I said about a lot of Afro-American nations just to demystify the idea of Black didn't forge their own nations in America, but I also can't see well how Miskitos or Garifunas can be a civ because need other unique features as an Unique Unit, Unique Improvement and so on. But they can appear as a Civ State.
5. I really would like to see the Powhatan or Cherokee in the game (I know they're not Afro-American but whatever. Okay maybe they have mixed blood IDK) The Cherokee is the only native nation to invent their own writing.
I need to admit this US-American understanding about Native-American was a surprise to me, I never thought the idea of Black Seminole can be so controversial.
I need to admit I also would like to see Powhatan, Cherokee and all other Native-Americans in Civ game. I would think this game will be very well balanced if have the same numbers of Native Americans as have Germanic leaders.
About the Seminole, I found this video yesterday:
As I understand, there are 3 groups of Seminole today.
Florida's Seminole, who fight and won Andrew Jackson, still living in Florida and is impossible to say if they are more Native American of Black, they are full-mix-race.
Oklahoma's Seminole, they are defeated by Andrew Jackson and move to Oklahoma, in Oklahoma the Black-Seminole start to be enslaved by other Native-American nations and also by Texans and John Horse lead more one time their folk against the Slavery to Mexico.
That event make the Oklahoma's Seminole be more Native American than black, I guess that is the why it is so controversial, because in USA-Historography the Native Americans are in Oklahoma and, in fact, nowadays Seminole in Oklahoma isn't as black as other Seminoles groups because Slavery issue.
Mexican's Seminole, this group is majority black and receive land in North Mexico in order to protect Mexican boarder against Texan's raiders.

As I see it, Seminole can be a Civ and the game don't need to say if it is black or native. As all other Civs, they need to have a leader, an Unique Unit, an Unique Improvement and a politica agenda. As the leader, since yesterday, I'm think the best option is Negro Abraham, look what he said when defeated once Andrew Jackson.

Very important issue about Seminole, they move to Florida to avoid White man and welcome all Black people who also want to avoid White man. Spaniards also allow everyone to come to Florida to defend it self against Protestant-White man. There is no knowledge of races in Florida, they are all together against the same foe, USA Empire.
No hard feelings and no offense meant by anything I said. Have fun arguing.

If I ofend you also I want to ask excuse, I love argue about Black Heritage and just want to see a better world, and I'm pretty sure Civilization have the power to help to build a new world. The Imperialism is over, now we all understand all humans are equal, let's do this game also more balanced. This game isn't an European game, it is made by Americans. Let's think a bit more about what is America.

Also, I forgot, Henri your map is wrong ways up LOL.:lol:
There are an Uruguayan called Torres García who will argue the South American nations should draw their maps up-side down. As I'm a Brazilian who is thinking about South lack of diversity I guess this Uruguayan map fit better :D
 
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