Blair of Lacuna?

[Giga-Gigan]

I don't know why the gods were so surprised when She neutered Nemed. I mean how could they not foresee that giving free will to their creation might put a dampener on their plans for her? I mean they could have done any number of things prevent it.
They could have conditioned her ahead of time to want mother humanity, Nemed could waited for her to come around instead trying to get busy right away, they could have used reverse psychology and tell her that she was doomed to be alone forever, anything!
But nooo, Nemed just told her to have sex with him. Maybe she was nervous, I mean it wasn't only her first time, it was humanity's first time. Whats worse shes only been alive for less then a week, they could have went on a date or something, maybe go on a romantic tour across creation. Finally come on who does she have to sleep with? Nemed? He's her uncle for crying out loud!
But the worst thing of all, who were the match makers? The Twenty One Angels, The Architects of Creation, the Archons of Aspects! Are you telling me that not one of them (baring Mammon) didn't see this coming? I mean all of them are supposed to be near omniscient, all had tons of practice creating multiple planes of existence, and each has an entirely unique perspective to look at the matter with. But they botch this one little match up? I don't believe it, its too stupid, its too preposterous, its blatently ********.

 

[Kael]

These gods were accustomed to the true heaven and believed that creation was another perfect world. If that had been the case then their plan would have worked. The story of Gabella isn't about her failure, but the failure of the gods plan. And it wasn't because Nemed took it to quickly or the other reasons you mentioned, but because creation was already flawed. The rebellion had already occured, a god had already defied the One, and the impact of that was corrupting Erebus in a way the gods were unable to understand.

Gabella is just a mirror of another action. The gods action manifested in creation. It wasn't that the gods didn't predict that Gabella would act differently, but that they didn't know about the actions she was reflecting.

And she was supposed to be conditioned to want to be the mother of humanity. She was carrying the desires of each of the gods in what they assumed were spirits of obeidience, compassion, trust and love. But she also recieved some traits they didnt expect her to have, including pride and a profound fear.

edit: but granted im biased and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

So she was born crazy because she was made by flawed beings? Doesn't that by extension mean that the One, who created the Twenty-One, is also flawed, and therefore not perfect? (This line of logic relies on the notion that a perfect being would make perfect creations...) Or were the darker traits and flaws made intentionally by him? As some sort of whole-istic interpretation of perfection, or merely as qualities to overcome?

 

[KillerClowns]

This is why I've always been less than fond of the One. Even he screwed up. I may merely be putting my own decidedly non-standard theological beliefs onto Erebus, but its clear that the gods, the One clearly included, are severely lacking in the omniscience category. I'd go so far as to argue that Creation was flawed from day 1, and that Agares' rebellion was merely the manifestation of these flaws.

 

[Kael]

So she was born crazy because she was made by flawed beings? Doesn't that by extension mean that the One, who created the Twenty-One, is also flawed, and therefore not perfect? (This line of logic relies on the notion that a perfect being would make perfect creations...) Or were the darker traits and flaws made intentionally by him? As some sort of whole-istic interpretation of perfection, or merely as qualities to overcome?

In my opinion these are the key questions. They are theological and apply as easily to our world as to Erebus. If you believe in a creator God that is pure good how can evil have come from his creations? What is the origin of evil? Those are the questions an origin myth attempts to address.

But answered directly, Gabella was disobediant both because she inherited those traits from the gods, and because men are a reflection of the gods. At the time the story takes place the One had already taken the power of creation back from the gods. So we know that Agares had already stolen the crystals from heaven and created Nyx. Rebellion had already occured.

As to your questions about the One and the introduction of evil, as to why creation is flawed and what a flawed creation says about an omnipresent creator. I leave that open. In my own personal philosophy the problem with the breaking of the aspects is that any aspect is inherently flawed on its own. That goodness is found in balance and the breaking of the dominions into powerful extremes is dangerous regardless of what those aspects are. For me its about fanaticism vs moderation. But thats my personal take on it. I dont attempt to enforce that view through FfH (well, not much, there are lots of stories that use those themes) just dip into those philosophical waters and let players swim around, if they enjoy that sort of thing.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

Wait, Agares STOLE those gems? I thought he made them using unlimited power at his disposal and then he lost inborn power so he used the gems. Key point being he MADE the gems. Which is true?

 

[Kael]

Wait, Agares STOLE those gems? I thought he made them using unlimited power at his disposal and then he lost inborn power so he used the gems. Key point being he MADE the gems. Which is true?

Agares did not make the gems, he stole the gems from the true heaven. Some suspect he would not have been able to do so without help.

Unknown to the other angels, and some say even to the One himself, Agares was not willing to lose the power of creation. Knowing he could not hope to keep the power from being taken from him and that he would be left only with the power to manipulate what already existed he used the power while he had it to create infinite wells of raw elements, air, earth, fire, water, life and death. At the center of these infinite reaches he placed gems of each of these elements which he had secreted out of heaven itself. When the power of creation was lost to him he still had enough matter and energy that he could go on creating until the end of time.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

As to your questions about the One and the introduction of evil, as to why creation is flawed and what a flawed creation says about an omnipresent creator. I leave that open. In my own personal philosophy the problem with the breaking of the aspects is that any aspect is inherently flawed on its own. That goodness is found in balance and the breaking of the dominions into powerful extremes is dangerous regardless of what those aspects are. For me its about fanaticism vs moderation. But thats my personal take on it. I dont attempt to enforce that view through FfH (well, not much, there are lots of stories that use those themes) just dip into those philosophical waters and let players swim around, if they enjoy that sort of thing.

Seems to me if the one wanted to avoid this whole mess it would have been much easier in the long term just to make creation himself...

Did he want to avoid this?

Or perhaps he didn't want to avoid this..

Is the One mastermind of the corruption of creation? Motive? Imagine for moment if you were the One, perfect embodiment of Good, everything you do, touch or make is perfect. Your home, heaven is paradise. All you make is a reflection of your own magnificence, for you are The One. But you are alone, you have no contemporaries. Sure you could create an equal, but for what? You are perfection, another would be also be perfection. You'd reach the same conclusions (the right one), you'd do the same things (the right things), and be the same (perfection).

Does the One, who is in and of himself, yearn for another, who is unlike himself? Opposite, if you will... Does the One want an Anti-One that embodies everything he isn't, a source of dissolution, of extremity, whom is both profane and malevolent.

Did the One whom he himself could not make imperfection, make 21 perfect embodiments of his own character to go and make creation for him, knowing full well that they could not succeed? Is it all a plan for them to fall one by one, until finally a certain dimensional goddess collapses it all into a single whole?

The Unhallowed deified, the defiled personified, The Unholy made Whole.

My friends it seems clear to me why the One let this happen, why he personally gave Evil a fighting chance, it is because he wants it to happen. The One wants Evil to win. The One wants an equal. A foe, a rival, a contemporary, a companion, and a friend. He wants something different from him self.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

Maybe this is how multidimensional all powerful deities reproduce. Make a perfect copy of themselves then divide that copy into 21 sections, each describing a different aspect of it's personality until those personalities unite into one being, another multidimensional all powerful deity. (Thistledown/eternity anyone?) Or because he is all powerful and omnipotent he is now bored. Because he is immortal and always has existed he knows all but two things; 1. how he was born and 2. how he can die. He wants Agares or Ceridwen to kill him. Pure speculation

 

[Tyrs]

Unique views floating around.
On the subject of "why evil" I would put forward for both Erebus and our own world, that actual Good/Love can't exist without the choice for something else.

So, if there cannot be good without the possiblity for evil, then a Good Creator God would have to provide the possibility for falling, while remaining Good.

If he did not then he would not be making sentient beings, he would be making very complicated robots.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Agares did not make the gems, he stole the gems from the true heaven. Some suspect he would not have been able to do so without help.

Oh, you're just throwing fuel on the fire of MC's Cerdiwen speculation.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

Has anyone thought that maybe the One is not Good? Maybe he is ultimate balance; i.e. Neutral.

 

[deadliver]

That is why I always try to put her out of my misery anytime she is in the game.

 

[deanej]

The One wants an equal. A foe, a rival, a contemporary, a companion, and a friend.

If he wanted a friend I'm sure he's very disappointed. I doubt Ceridwen is capable of being a true friend of anyone, much less the One.

 

[Giga-Gigan]

Mostly I believe he just wants someone capable of disagreeing with him, whom isn't him or of him. Well at least I don't think that Despair, Rage, Greed, ect. are are apart of the One. Kael did say something balance and whatnot, so maybe he does contain those qualities, but in a more all things in moderation sort of way.

Also I don't think that the Anti-One would be Ceridwen, but rather an amalgamation of the entirety of then corrupted creation (the twenty one gods, the infinite planes of the elements, Erebus). Sort of like the Avatar of Wrath before it was reconned, but on a grander scale.

However if it were to be any one person, I'd put my money of Gabella, for as far as I know, she was the only one who escaped Creation. Maybe the Angels did, but as far as I know they were either in Creation or in Heaven, never Outside as The One was before he made anything.

Any clarification regarding the One would be much appreciated though.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Despair, Rage, Greed, etc., are all but the darker sides of the precepts of Hope, Peace, Foresight, etc. These precepts in The One would surely be of the uncorrupted variety. Anything taken too far out of of balance has a tendency to become corrupted, and even the good god's spheres are corrupt to some degree. (I'm also open to the possibility that The One contains more aspects than those manifested in Creation, and that he may have gone on to make another Creation with gods embodying at least some of these as well. It is quite possible that these aspects in isolation would tend towards corruption as well.)


Gabella has not escaped creation any more than any of the gods have. Ceridwen is the one who has mastered travel between planes, and is suspected to have gone to many places unknown to the other gods or possibly even The One.


Gabella would however be the greatest creation to embody every precept like the One (possibly) does, and she perhaps embodies them all in fallen form. I don't actually see much indicating that Gabella and The One wouldn't get along though. In fact, it seems that his last entrance into Creation was to prevent her from being raped by Aeron or destroy by Junil. We don't know exactly what he said to the gods who remained loyal to him, but most of them wanted to destroy Gabella or force her into submission before he spoke to them and seem to have left her alone afterwards. When The One entered Gabella experienced a sense that she was the entirety of Creation, and Kael said her perception of things was essentially like that of The One. The One's love for Creation then could be construed as love specifically for Gabella, and his unwillingness to destroy it or to force himself on it probably apply especially to her. I'm beginning to think that what is really needed for the Age of Enlightenment is for Gabella to recognize and accept The One's love and plan for her, which might not actually bear much resemblance to the plan the 21 devised. Perhaps The One himself is the only proper husband for Gabella, but the experience of love between them would be far greater and different than the mere intercourse Nemed and Aeron attempted. (Of course, since it is dark fantasy Gabella will probably never come to accept this, and thus doom us all.)

 

[Giga-Gigan]

That is quite a beautiful sentiment MagisterCultuum, but seeing how this is a dark fantasy, I'm more inclined to believe that Creation is but a mad plot by the One to help him fulfill his want of experiencing the darker side of life. A want he can't fulfill due to his own perfection.

That aside are you sure she didn't pull a stunt during Aeron's attempted rape? Kael did say the trauma of the situation literally pulled her from her body.

Thats an intentionally vague description because I wanted to mix the psychological effect of the attack (Os-Gabella terrified to the point of detachment from her body) with the appearance of the One. I don't know how effective th strategy was but in that moment of horror Os-Gabella see's the world much as the One does, but that is little comfort to her. Most importantly is is supposed to carry the message that everyone is the criminal and the victim.