Blessed Art Thou

[Birdjaguar]

So programming a computer game where you know the moves of all future participants?

To continue your not so good analogy, it is only a game to those who are playing; to the designer, the creation process was just a task.

 

[warpus]

IMO it's a good analogy in terms of the match-fixing aspect of this we were talking about (and not so good in other ways as you point out, but does that matter here?)

All I'm saying is that if an all-powerful and all-knowing entity (God or otherwise) created the universe (or a video game), this entity would have all bases covered. All ways in which this universe would come to exist would be known. Imagine a giant spreadsheet with the whole universe in it, with dimensions and tabs you can't even imagine, side-universes, parallel universes, other dimensions of time, and anything else that makes up reality as it exists.

An all-powerful and all-knowing God essentially carries such a spreadsheet around with him/her, and is able to instantaneously respond to queries about a state of the universe at any point in time, space, and all the other dimensions. In fact this God would know about your question ahead of time even and have that base covered as well. Everything is known and the spreadsheet is so advanced and well indexed that the answers exist before you even ask them.

So obviously no programmer is that good. But on some level a lot of games exist in which if you asked a programmer: "If the princess is still in the brown castle and the player is level 5, where is the goblin?", he'll say: "Hold on I'll check my code"

 

[Birdjaguar]

It probably doesn't matter, but timtofly usually has a religious or theological twist to his thinking and it is that aspect of his post that i think is "not so good".

 

[timtofly]

So obviously no programmer is that good. But on some level a lot of games exist in which if you asked a programmer: "If the princess is still in the brown castle and the player is level 5, where is the goblin?", he'll say: "Hold on I'll check my code"

Why is there no programmer that good? Technically from your perspective the game runs itself. Is this universe not a good enough example of a well planned out existence? Is there no programming that good either? This is not an argument for design, if it already exist. It is the ability to determine that this universe has a code that we have barely been exposed to.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why is there no programmer that good? Technically from your perspective the game runs itself. Is this universe not a good enough example of a well planned out existence? Is there no programming that good either? This is not an argument for design, if it already exist. It is the ability to determine that this universe has a code that we have barely been exposed to.

I can't speak for the universe as a whole, but if life on earth is planned, it is about as badly planned as you can get. Way too many mass extinctions for starters. And at the other end of the scale, human aging wasn't planned at all.

 

[warpus]

Why is there no programmer that good?

No programmer is ever that all-knowing and all-certain about his/her own code, especially if it's something complex like a game, with many moving parts. Plus the sort of indexing I described would be in most cases impossible to set up.

 

[timtofly]

I can't speak for the universe as a whole, but if life on earth is planned, it is about as badly planned as you can get. Way too many mass extinctions for starters. And at the other end of the scale, human aging wasn't planned at all.

Would you like to play a game that is rigid and scripted, or one that evolves as it is being played?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Would you like to play a game that is rigid and scripted, or one that evolves as it is being played?

If it is a game, then we are not playing; we (humans) are just events in someone/thing's entertainment. Act Five bosses as it were.

If we were players, we would have been in from the start. If we were players, as I said, at the macro level, mass extinctions point to lack of planning and clear evidence we are not players. If we narrow the scope to make us players, then misery is the winner and there is no ctrl S. Hard Core for all. Like I said, its a bad analogy.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If it is a game, then we are not playing; we (humans) are just events in someone/thing's entertainment. Act Five bosses as it were.

If we were players, we would have been in from the start. If we were players, as I said, at the macro level, mass extinctions point to lack of planning and clear evidence we are not players. If we narrow the scope to make us players, then misery is the winner and there is no ctrl S. Hard Core for all. Like I said, its a bad analogy.

Why would we have "been in from the start"? When's the last time you heard of a player being invited to development meetings?

I'm not disagreeing that it's a "bad analogy," by the way. The fact that it isn't working pretty well defines that.

 

[Leifmk]

Ah, I'll just direct you all to the words of Mark Twain.

https://warprayer.org/

 

[stinkubus]

 

[timtofly]

If it is a game, then we are not playing; we (humans) are just events in someone/thing's entertainment. Act Five bosses as it were.

If we were players, we would have been in from the start. If we were players, as I said, at the macro level, mass extinctions point to lack of planning and clear evidence we are not players. If we narrow the scope to make us players, then misery is the winner and there is no ctrl S. Hard Core for all. Like I said, its a bad analogy.

Bad analogy for who? God would be the player. However humans are the vr players representing God's actions from inside the game. If you want to be an entity separate from God, then I suppose you will never enjoy the analogy. God cannot enjoy it either if no one plays the game as scripted, or does God enjoy it despite the reluctance of the vr representatives? Or is the analogy limited because we favor our own imaginations?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Bad analogy for who? God would be the player. However humans are the vr players representing God's actions from inside the game.

Hinduism and Sufism at their finest! I approve.

If you want to be an entity separate from God, then I suppose you will never enjoy the analogy. God cannot enjoy it either if no one plays the game as scripted, or does God enjoy it despite the reluctance of the vr representatives? Or is the analogy limited because we favor our own imaginations?

The separation is why I think the analogy fails.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Well, Macario is a worse analogy than I thought.