BNH01- Conquesting Emperor

[BigNHuge]

yes that was cascade. We might have some trouble. If all else fails we can fall back on a FB or Leos.

 

[BigNHuge]

Actually we are probably only threatend by the Byzanties if they are building in there capital. If we have enough gold, investigate the cities where they are building Sun Tzu

 

[jb1964]

Will do the investigation.

I'll re-post my post once I'm done.

For the rest of the team, I was just putting down an outline to update so everyone could see progress and provide feedback. I Didn't mean to sow confusion.

For some unknown reason my computer decided to start ignoring my keyboard in the middle of the game. I had to reboot, several times, before I got it back. But by then I had lost my notes.

 

[BigNHuge]

All of you are invited to join BNH02- Thats one small step We need a good team for this Emperor Space Race as America.

 

[jb1964]

The save, 400 AD

Well, we’re at war w/ four civs and need to deal w/ the Iroquois in the short term. Need to avoid getting England or the Mongols on our butt.

IBT: England and Iroquois sign a peace treaty. Arabs finish building the GL. No cascade.

Turn 1-4, 310 AD
Take Allegheny. Kill off forces in the hills. The Iroquois really do have some nice land. It would be a shame to not to put it to better uses.

I'm not sure how the turn play goes but the IBT after the turn that the the Arabs finished the GL had several civs building Sun Tsu's. Was this a cascade or not?

Make peace w/ Spain and get Engineering, 79gpt, 4g for Republic. Paca’s still willing to give us gold for Republic but not enough for my liking.

We can’t investigate the Byzantines since we’re at war and they’re not interested in conversation.

IBT: Pike dies, we kill off a couple of swords.
Turn 5, 350 AD
Kill off some more Iroquois units using elites where possible. No Leaders.
No deals to be had. This world is full of some real stupid people.
Sun Tsu’s in 10. We’re competing w/ 5 other civs for this one. At this point we’re going to have a huge loss of shields if we miss out.

IBT: Kill off a few attacking swords in the hills.
Turn 6, 360 AD
Building and moving forces getting forces ready to tackle Niagara Falls.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 7, 370 AD
Lux back to 20% and MM cities. Sun Tsu’s in 8.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 8, 380 AD
Sun Tsu’s in 6.

IBT: Rats! All this purple is making it hard to spot Iroquois infiltrators. An Iroquois sword attacks our lone warrior in Braga and dies! Ha! I rename our warrior Lucky. Yikes! Some fire breathing Byzantine boat attacks our curragh and gets the short end of the stick. Our curragh is victorious and doesn’t take a single hit.

Turn 9, 390 AD
Our MI’s kill off a spear and three swords. Get one elite promotion.

IBT: Another Iroquois sword dies going for our reinforced units on the hills.

Turn 10, 400 AD
Kill off another sword by nailing him w/ two treb shots and knocking his block off w/ a vet MI. The only thing that can retaliate next turn is a spear. Not gonna happen.
Sun Tsu’s in 4.
Troops poised to take Niagara Falls (coastal, two ivory)

The save, 400 AD

 

[SJ Frank]

Yep, that was a cascade, but I think our Sun Tzu should be safe.

The GL is a 400 shield wonder, while Sun Tzu is 600 shields. During JB's turn 4, one of they AIs build the 400 shield wonder, meaning that the rest of them have less than 400 shields accumulated. In order for them to beat us, they will have to build at least 160 (200 * 80%) shields in 11 turns, roughly 15 per turn.

The Byzantine capital, when I build the embassy with them, had 16spt during their golden age, and it was working on a library. So I think we should be okay unless there is another civ enjoying their golden age right now.

 

[jb1964]

SJ, very good point.

Who's up next?

 

[BigNHuge]

Rik is up now. But i have to think. What could have triggered the Byzanties GA! Who are they at war with! And more importantly, who would use naval right now. The only "navy" I saw was us and Byzanties.

@all- What are we gonna do after Sun Tzus comes in. Are we gonna re-prebuild for some later wonder i.e. Leo's?

 

[Rik Meleet]

Me UP? OK I got it.

 

[jb1964]

I want to get a GL from our skirmish w/ the Iroquois and pop the FP up north.

Start a Leo's prebuild and see if there's a cascade when we get Sun Tsu's.

 

[BigNHuge]

I guess the order now is....

Rik- Now
Big- On Deck
SJ- In the hole
jb- Just played

 

[Rik Meleet]

I won't play today. It's back to work for me tomorrow. Perhaps tomorrow night. But I will play; I've already spend hours examining our position and making plans for the ongoing war with the Iro's.

Just give me some time.

 

[BigNHuge]

of course.

Everyone knows its the traditional 24 got it 72 play right?

 

[SJ Frank]

With regard to wonders after Sun Tzu, here's my 2 Italian Lira:

No more wonders until factories.

I'd like to start hand-building our FP in Emerita right-away. We are not militaristic, so leaders will not come easily for us. The first leader that we get will most definitely make an army. Who knows when the second leader will arrive. Emerita will take less than 20 turns to complete the FP, and it is in the general direction of our expansion. That's why it gets my vote.

Also, I see us being in Communism sometime in the future. So where we have the FP won't be very important (unless you can find a 120spt site somewhere on the map ).

 

[BigNHuge]

No more wonders until factories.

That is a little extreme! I was definantly hoping to pull in both Leo's and Smiths! unless im mistaken arent factories not until Industrial.

 

[BigNHuge]

The first leader that we get will most definitely make an army.

I agree.

I would like an offensive army to go deep within there territory to pick off random workers.

 

[SJ Frank]

That is a little extreme! I was definantly hoping to pull in both Leo's and Smiths! unless im mistaken arent factories not until Industrial.

Yeah, I think we can get any middle age we want, but I'm not sure we need any wonders.

Leo won't give us much benefit. It's not like we have 20 horsemen waiting to be upgraded to knights.

For the same amount of shield, I'd rather have Bach, which should equal at least one click on the lux slider for the rest of the game.

Smith, humm, that a good wonder. If/when we have 50+ cities, it's going to be worth more than 100gpt average for most of the game. If we get one middle age wonder, I guess Smith is the one that want.

Knights Templar, that's an interesting wonder for this game. If we want it, it's ours, just start a pre-build in Gurmaraes... But, it will take 30+ turns to build it, and 7 or 8 more turns for the Crusaders to reach the front. I'm not sure it's worth taking our best troop producer off-line for 30 turns. By the time it produces enough Crusader to make a difference, the battle for our continent should be over, and if it isn't over, then it would have been over had we used the same shields to produce knights instead of the wonder.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts on them wonders. My conclusions are:

Leos - no, too little benefit the justify the 600 shields

Knights Templar - no, if we had a pre-build going and can complete it soon, then it's good, but that's not the present situation.

All other wonders that benefits only one city on a huge map - no

A golden age fueled run at Smith - yes, if the military situation is good

Bach - only if we are -ing the Mongols

BTW, If this was a builder game, we could even try to get every single middle age wonder, with the help of a golden age at Astronamy, it would be an interesting challenge

 

[Rik Meleet]

Well, I've played about 8 turns and I am in a situation I have to think hard and long about. It's about breaking an MA we and the Zulu signed against the Byzantines.

Con: our rep gets hit.
Pro: we get a good trade for Gems and horses (horses is a gamble).

We are in the tech lead (still) so our rep isn't worth as much, but OTOH buying strategic resources and luxuries is also hindered.

I'll post the turnlog for so far, care to comment ???

IHT:
Observations:
- We need horses if we want to quickly conquer. Unfortunately there are no horses close. Only 2 sources are within striking distance. 1 north of the Iroquois and 1 in Sumerian lands.
- No civs have more than 1 horse-resource connected, except the Incans who we are in war with. Not that it matters as:
- Trading is blocked because the Iroquois cities have coastal control.
- We need pikes
- Several cities with big shield-production are just 1 shield away from finishing their builds. With a bit more careful Micromanaging this would not happen.
- We are far down in Culture, so Iroquois cities are in flip-danger. Luckily many cultrual buildings will finish soon, hopefully bending that around.

If we Capture all Western-Iroquois cities, we've destroyed their core and have free sea-routes again.

Lower the Sci to 70%.

IBT: Sumeria wants us out. OK. Iroquois advance, but do not dare attack.
Lissabon temple -> Pike
Leiria Lib -> Pike
Évora Aqua -> temple

[1]410 AD. Battle of Niagara Falls.
Catapults hit 4 out of 8, Both defending spears are red-lined. Veteran MDI Defeats the first without scratch, promoting to elite. Elite 5/5 MDI takes 3 hits, but wins; capturing Niagara Falls.
Starting temple.
5/5 Sword Vs 3/3 Sword. Dies doing only 1 damage.

IBT: Byz Dromon is nearing our Shores. Niagara Falls stops resisting and starts riotting (I hate this).
Smokes Temple -> Harbor

[2]420 AD. Send in stack of 8 caths, 1 treb, 5 vet MDI's and 1 Elite MDI out to attack the presumed location of the Iro capital. More help is on their way.
Oporto functions fine without Colosseum, switch it to FP, as Wonder Prebuild. Bring it up to 20 spt.
Up science to 80%, getting Invention in 2; at -64 gpt.

IBT: Our Curragh dies to a Dromon attack and our galley is in danger of getting the same. The Dromon near our lands bombs, but does no damage.
Lissabon Pike -> Pike
Coimbra Harbor -> MDI
Braga Temple -> Pike
São Paulo Aqua -> temple
Alcácer do Sal Temple -> Pike

[3] 430 AD. Assembling 2nd attack force for Oil Springs. 1st Attack force finds itself next to Salamanca.
Invention in 1, Sun Tzu in 1. Sell Zulu Feudalism for 125 gold + Alliance Vs Byzantines and RoP. Hopefully that'll give the Byzantines something to do. I could also sign them against the Inca, but we need the Incan horses.

IBT: Our fleet is sunk by the Byz. Invention is learned. Start on Monotheism (for Chivalry). War Weariness seems to kick in.
Guimarães Lib -> MDI
Lagos temple -> Pike
Sun Tzu finishes in Emerita. Emerita starts Forbidden Palace.
Leiria Pike -> MDI

[4] 440 AD. Switch Oporto to Leo's. Up lux to 30%. MM cities to 5 or 6 or 10 or 15 or 20 shields. 2 trebs (1 hit) attack 3/3 sword and 5/5 elite MDI attacks. No leader.
Attack on Salamanca: 1 treb and 8 catapults hit 6 times, redlining all 3 spears. 4/4 MDI flawlessly kills 1/3 spear and promotes. 4/4 MDi flawlessly kills 1/3 spear (no promotion). 5/5 elite MDI looses 2 hits and wins, capturing Salamanca. No leader.
Send in 6 cats + 1 treb + 2 wet MDI's + 2 Elite Swords on their way to Oil Springs. Via a different route 1 reg pike + 1 vet MDI join them.
Now we have Sun Tzu: Sell all our barracks, netting us 70 gold and saving us 7 gpt.
Spain has Monotheism. They want to trade it for Invention. Hard Choice. Arabia build the Great Library some time ago, but doesn't know Spain, which means they won't get it.
I decide to Trade our Invention to Spain for Monotheism since the Cascade is dead. Pick up 1 gold as well.
Lower Sci to 50%; +8gpt, Chivalry in 9.

IBT: Dromon keeps blasting our shores, no damage. (this is what caused the War-Weariness). Spanish start Leo's.

Lissabon Pike -> Cathedral (Knight's Templar Pre-build).

[5] 450 AD. Forces move on to clear the West Coast. Also move on to Oil Springs. No trades possible.

IBT: We loose a pike and a MDI in the counter-attack. Nothing bad really. Palace expands; gets next floor.
Akwesane Treb -> settler
Mongol archer pops up, just in the path of our attack force on Cattaraugus.

[6] 460 AD. Forces move on. "Task force Oil Springs" is in position. If the Mongol arched moves; "task force Cattaraugus" will be next turn. No trades possible.

IBT: Dromon bombards Sagres again. 3/4 MDI is drawing swords away from Oil Springs. It is attacked as well, but survives and promotes to elite. Mongol archer leaves.
Guimarães MDI -> MDI
Sagres temple -> galley
Coimbra MDI -> galley
Centralia walls -> temple
Évora temple -> Lib
Smokes harbor -> market

[7] 470 AD. Battle of Oil Springs. 1 treb and 6 cats hit 2 times. 5/5 elite Sword Vs 2/3 spear: Looses 1 HP from Iro cat, but wins flawlessly. 5/5 Elite sword Vs 2/3 spear: Wins flawlessly and Oil Springs is ours (capturing the catapult). Starts temple.
"Task force Cattaraugus move into position to strike next turn.
Move stack of 5 MDI's + 1 cat + 2 Trebs out of Salamanca as it is in flip danger.

IBT: there are now 2 Dromons off Sagres. Iroquois reposition troops, but don't attack.
Leiria MDI -> Cathedral
Braga Pike -> Lib

[8] 480 AD. bombard and redline all Iroquois forces round Oil Springs.
Battle od Cattaraugus 8 cats + 1 treb hit 5 times. 5/5 Elite MDI Vs 2/4 Spear. Archer shoots, but no damage. MDI wins without a scratch. 4/4 MDI Vs 3/3 archer. 1 scratch, but wins. 5/5 Elite MDI Vs 1/4 spear. Flawless victory. We capture Cattaraugus + 2 workers. The sealines are open !!

... Or are they? Because we didn't scout the entire north-coast of our continent we can now only trade with the English and the Mongols (who have nothing).

We have got our objectives and our forces are tired. Dial up the Iro's for peace. We get Tyendenaga, Tonawanda, Caughnawaga and a worker for peace. Done.

And now the sealines are really open. We can trade.

Trade Ivory + Incense to Spain for Wines + 66 gold + 5gpt.
Sign Peace with the Inca for 100 gold. Can't trade for horses with them; the traderoute goes through (enemy) Byz lands.

We can make peace with the Byz, breaking our MA with the Zulu. But we need horses and gems. Decide to pause and think on it for a while. Our semi-monopoly on Monotheism (or Invention) is sufficient to get gems and horses. I can do Gems now, but would mean that the Arabs get the tech as well because of their Great Lib.

So: break our treaty and our rep to get horses and gems cheap so we can use the 20 turns of peace with the Iro's to build knights and kill them off, or only buy Gems, giving up our tech-advantage and get horses in 15 turns and have a small chance of destroying the Iro's ??

 

[jb1964]

Rik,

Not sure I follow everything. Can you post the save so I can take a look?

I'm not sure I follow the urgency of breaking the deal for the horses.

 

[Rik Meleet]

GO ahead and have a look;

480 AD.