Oh yeah don't raze Seoul either. Capture it, starve it, grow it, abandon it. Hell you might even be able to build a few settlers there to help get the second continent settled. We're nowhere near the domination limit, there's no need to be razing cities. The only time I raze cities is when the civ has 10 times my culture and it isn't worth the flip risk or if I'm at the domination limit.
BoG 01- American Pride
- Thread starter bewareofgnomes
- Start date
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
I got it, but might not be able to play until tomorrow.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
@Shillen--I struggled with temples vs. MP for now--probably erred on the side of mp too much (especially in connected cities where we have to build the 20 shield unit) 
to me.
Good point on not razing Seoul--hadn't thought about churning settlers there--but still debatable--some immediate slave workers may be nice--and THAT CITY LOCATION SUCKS. I leave it up to the conquering leader...also--do the Koreans/Zulus have contact with anyone? If not, then no rep hit for razing...and some of those Zulu cities are not well situated...(dotmap to follow)
I opted for a galley in SanFran first to bring the total to five--then immediately set on whipping in several steps to the courthouse (I think it's due in 2-3).
I also have workers heading to the forest near Seattle to lumberjack for FP shields (this can be vetoed--esp if we get a leader). There is also one lumberjack near SanFran to help the court (check this--we may be close enough to save this for the next build).
Agree on worker stacks--used at most two, but may have had more because of a fat-fingered keystroke. I'd get these guys back to the core and get ~12-15 tiles improved in each (for MM switching)--one at a time then on to next city. Only reason for stacking from for the time being should be for quick roading to a new city or for getting an improvement done fast because the city is about to grow.
Overall--we are in GREAT shape here. (We would be even better if I had not made the Literature tech choice.
After the conquer--should look at whether any other warring would net us more lux--then infra push (with horsed mil) to support conquer with Cav/tanks (depending on timing of AI Nationalism/Rep Parts).
And yes...I am reverting back to
type....
to me.Good point on not razing Seoul--hadn't thought about churning settlers there--but still debatable--some immediate slave workers may be nice--and THAT CITY LOCATION SUCKS. I leave it up to the conquering leader...also--do the Koreans/Zulus have contact with anyone? If not, then no rep hit for razing...and some of those Zulu cities are not well situated...(dotmap to follow)
I opted for a galley in SanFran first to bring the total to five--then immediately set on whipping in several steps to the courthouse (I think it's due in 2-3).
I also have workers heading to the forest near Seattle to lumberjack for FP shields (this can be vetoed--esp if we get a leader). There is also one lumberjack near SanFran to help the court (check this--we may be close enough to save this for the next build).
Agree on worker stacks--used at most two, but may have had more because of a fat-fingered keystroke. I'd get these guys back to the core and get ~12-15 tiles improved in each (for MM switching)--one at a time then on to next city. Only reason for stacking from for the time being should be for quick roading to a new city or for getting an improvement done fast because the city is about to grow.
Overall--we are in GREAT shape here. (We would be even better if I had not made the
Literature tech choice.After the conquer--should look at whether any other warring would net us more lux--then infra push (with horsed mil) to support conquer with Cav/tanks (depending on timing of AI Nationalism/Rep Parts).
And yes...I am reverting back to
type....I don't think you get a rep hit for razing cities, so I'll assume you meant attitude hit. But I believe attitude hits do transfer to civ's that have no contact, while rep hits do not. In GOTM17 I RoP raped egypt when I killed them, because they had no contacts with anyone and I didn't think there was any harm in it. Then when I finally managed to explore the world and meet the other civ's some of them were furious with me even though I had never done anything to them. I think we should play it safe. Hell it's a size 3 city, wouldn't we only get 1 slave from that? Not sure.
edit: Oops forgot, they do have contact with the other continent.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
bewareofgnomes
Back Again
i was wondering what is more effecient, a stack or spread out, so now i know. i didnt see too many unimproved tiles in the core. guess ill have to look harder next time.
btw, what exactly constitutes a "sneek attack". in my solo game, im behinf magnetism and cant get to the IA because of it. everyone is furious with me becasue i "snuck attacked Korea" all i di was declare war on them. my forces where within in my border too.
btw, what exactly constitutes a "sneek attack". in my solo game, im behinf magnetism and cant get to the IA because of it. everyone is furious with me becasue i "snuck attacked Korea" all i di was declare war on them. my forces where within in my border too.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
Grimjack - I suppose that was a bit odd. 
My 'got it' was really just an acknowledgement that I am aware it is now my turn.
I now have the save as well as the concept that it is my turn
Stormrider
My 'got it' was really just an acknowledgement that I am aware it is now my turn.
I now have the save as well as the concept that it is my turn
Stormrider
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Sorry for the confusion Grimjack--I posted my turns at work yesterday morning but could not get the save posted until I got home
.Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
My apologies, I was up on another game yesterday as well and that took a bit longer than I expected (my first Diety level game). I am still under the 48 hours from when Ba-Bam posted, but it will be more like 53 hours by the time I post.
My apologies to all for the delay.
My apologies to all for the delay.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
No problem--I was the one who posted turns without the save... I, for one, will surely forgive you for putting time into first diety SG (I just started my first diety solo last night--Epic 26--probably no hope of doing before the reporting, but I figured it was about time).
I, for one, will surely forgive you for putting time into first diety SG (I just started my first diety solo last night--Epic 26--probably no hope of doing before the reporting, but I figured it was about time).Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
0 510 BC
* Take a look around to orient myself
I
* Germany declares war vs Iroqois
* Boston Sword ->GL
* Philly Temple -> Mktplace
* Seattle Court -> Spear
1) 490 BC
* Move 3 full galleys towards Korea
* Move empty galley out 2 spaces. Two swords from Boston to load next turn
* Workers work
* Washingtom had entertainer, atlanta grew and needed one -> both are now scientists and dropped Republic from 11 to 10 turns
I
* Wash sword -> Temple
* St Louis spear -> temple
* Denver spear -> Courthouse
2) 470 BC
* Load new Wash sword into half empty galley and sortie towards Southern continent
* Load empty galley with 2 swords and move to South continent coast.
* Declare war on koreans. Move 3 full galleys to Korean coast and unload
* AI still has no techs that we don't
3) 450 BC
* Sword loses 1 HP (3/4) kills spear
* Swrod goes down to red, then kills spear and promotes to elite (2/5)
* Sword loses no points, kills archer and takes Soeul. I am not one to raze cities unless necessary, so I do not
We have detroyed the fledgling Koreans. Excuse me waiter, do you have any specials on the menu today? Why yes, our chef was about to start carving up a tender little Zulu empire.
* Load up swords and move galley towards Zululand
* Move workers around. Will chop some forests next turn
I
[Weed alert] Washington grew to size 9 and rioted. Gave entertainer [/weed alert]
* Our people so hated the Koreans, that they gave us a nice lawn for our palace as a token of their appreciation
* Rome starts Great Wall
* NY Settler. Decided to move N instead of to southern continent
4) 430 BC
* Move galleys towards zulu. rest our elite sword for some leader fishing later in the Zulu campaign
* Load worker onto galley to bring to south
* Declare war on Zulu. Unload the host at Bapedi's doorstep
I
* Zulu archer redlines a sword before he dies
* Several forests finish being chopped
5) 390 BC
* Sword redlines (1/4) killing Impi
* Sword redlines (1/4) killing Impi
* Sword loses 1 HP (3/4) filling archer in Bapedi. Bapedi auto-razes. Zulu archer next to ruins of Bapedi
* Construction fairly widespread, but no one has a reasonable trade for it.
I
[Weed alert] I did not protect the redlined swords. Lost 2. One killed Impi and is Elite. That was just so fricken stupid on my part [/weed alert]
* Houston Spear -> Temple
* Buffalo temple -> Spear
6) 370 BC
* 3/4 sword kills archer
* 2/5 sword kills 1/3 Impi
I)
* Archer suicides against one of our swords who is now elite (4/5)
* Wash temple -> Mktplace
* NY Spear -> Settler
* Atlanta temple -> spear
* Seattle Spear -> temple
* Romans start GL
7) 350 BC
* Dallas founded in the northlands
* rest up army so elites are in top shape
I Oh yeah baby - defending elite sword kills archer and gets great leader: Washington. Our unit is now called Stormrider Regiment.
8) 330 BC
* Move leader post haste back to America. - Load onto galley. I am not making an army. Basically, we have intense corruption in the northern half of our continent and we need the F.P.
* Move swords south into zulu territory
I
* SF riot - change taxman to entertainer
* Cinnci warrior ->spear
9) 310 BC
* Move swords to zimbabwe
* unload leader in America. Start him towards North
* Republic next turn slider at 4.5.1
I
* Republic -> Contruction. No revolt
* lost galley - hit wrong key at end of 310BC
10) 290 BC
* Slider to 2.7.1 4gpt / Contr in 7 turns
* move workers and some galleys - all else still has full movement
I will halt here as decisions need to be made:
* Great Leader should make Forbidden Palace IMHO. But both GL wonders are available. Still full movement on him for this turn
* If we use the leader on a wonder, the our sword SoD by Zimbabwe has 3 elites (2 fully healthy) for leader fishing
* We can get construction, wm, and gold off of AI for republic trade. Rome has 96 gold to offer. That would also make great wall available for leader
* Can switch to Polytheism if no one agrees with Construction (or trades for it) with no wasted beakers.
* Left the revolt to the next leaderGame
* Take a look around to orient myself
I
* Germany declares war vs Iroqois
* Boston Sword ->GL
* Philly Temple -> Mktplace
* Seattle Court -> Spear
1) 490 BC
* Move 3 full galleys towards Korea
* Move empty galley out 2 spaces. Two swords from Boston to load next turn
* Workers work
* Washingtom had entertainer, atlanta grew and needed one -> both are now scientists and dropped Republic from 11 to 10 turns
I
* Wash sword -> Temple
* St Louis spear -> temple
* Denver spear -> Courthouse
2) 470 BC
* Load new Wash sword into half empty galley and sortie towards Southern continent
* Load empty galley with 2 swords and move to South continent coast.
* Declare war on koreans. Move 3 full galleys to Korean coast and unload
* AI still has no techs that we don't
3) 450 BC
* Sword loses 1 HP (3/4) kills spear
* Swrod goes down to red, then kills spear and promotes to elite (2/5)
* Sword loses no points, kills archer and takes Soeul. I am not one to raze cities unless necessary, so I do not
We have detroyed the fledgling Koreans. Excuse me waiter, do you have any specials on the menu today? Why yes, our chef was about to start carving up a tender little Zulu empire.
* Load up swords and move galley towards Zululand
* Move workers around. Will chop some forests next turn
I
[Weed alert] Washington grew to size 9 and rioted. Gave entertainer [/weed alert]
* Our people so hated the Koreans, that they gave us a nice lawn for our palace as a token of their appreciation
* Rome starts Great Wall
* NY Settler. Decided to move N instead of to southern continent
4) 430 BC
* Move galleys towards zulu. rest our elite sword for some leader fishing later in the Zulu campaign
* Load worker onto galley to bring to south
* Declare war on Zulu. Unload the host at Bapedi's doorstep
I
* Zulu archer redlines a sword before he dies
* Several forests finish being chopped
5) 390 BC
* Sword redlines (1/4) killing Impi
* Sword redlines (1/4) killing Impi
* Sword loses 1 HP (3/4) filling archer in Bapedi. Bapedi auto-razes. Zulu archer next to ruins of Bapedi
* Construction fairly widespread, but no one has a reasonable trade for it.
I
[Weed alert] I did not protect the redlined swords. Lost 2. One killed Impi and is Elite. That was just so fricken stupid on my part [/weed alert]
* Houston Spear -> Temple
* Buffalo temple -> Spear
6) 370 BC
* 3/4 sword kills archer
* 2/5 sword kills 1/3 Impi
I)
* Archer suicides against one of our swords who is now elite (4/5)
* Wash temple -> Mktplace
* NY Spear -> Settler
* Atlanta temple -> spear
* Seattle Spear -> temple
* Romans start GL
7) 350 BC
* Dallas founded in the northlands
* rest up army so elites are in top shape
I Oh yeah baby - defending elite sword kills archer and gets great leader: Washington. Our unit is now called Stormrider Regiment.
8) 330 BC
* Move leader post haste back to America. - Load onto galley. I am not making an army. Basically, we have intense corruption in the northern half of our continent and we need the F.P.
* Move swords south into zulu territory
I
* SF riot - change taxman to entertainer
* Cinnci warrior ->spear
9) 310 BC
* Move swords to zimbabwe
* unload leader in America. Start him towards North
* Republic next turn slider at 4.5.1
I
* Republic -> Contruction. No revolt
* lost galley - hit wrong key at end of 310BC
10) 290 BC
* Slider to 2.7.1 4gpt / Contr in 7 turns
* move workers and some galleys - all else still has full movement
I will halt here as decisions need to be made:
* Great Leader should make Forbidden Palace IMHO. But both GL wonders are available. Still full movement on him for this turn
* If we use the leader on a wonder, the our sword SoD by Zimbabwe has 3 elites (2 fully healthy) for leader fishing
* We can get construction, wm, and gold off of AI for republic trade. Rome has 96 gold to offer. That would also make great wall available for leader
* Can switch to Polytheism if no one agrees with Construction (or trades for it) with no wasted beakers.
* Left the revolt to the next leaderGame
bewareofgnomes
Back Again
i think that we should rush FP far away from palace, then if we get another leader make army or rush gl or something.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Stormrider--overall nice turn.
Won't complain about the you self caught most of it. I cannot remember how many times I failed to protect an army.
I remember my first game at emperor (not that this is yours...) , I let cities rebel WAY too much. We have all had enough so far in this game--thank God it is not Diety.
Reminder to all--we have got to be more careful on the city riots and protecting our armies...I do not think the rest of the opponents (after Shaka is crushed ) will lay down so easy.
As for the leader--FP in New Orleans is my recommendation! We may just get lucky and pull another one for the GL. Great wall will not help us, and if we don't pull another leader, Boston might just win out--we have a much better developed civ than anyone,--industrious workers ROCK!
I suggest trade for construction--go for poly (usually one AI doesn't research), and revolt as soon as the war ends. BTW, if we do not get another leader, we should investigate one or more cities building wonders (if we cannot conclusively determine whether we can beat them to a wonder by looking at their tiles.)
I may have more ideas after looking at the save.
Shilllen <=== ON DECK
bewareofgnomes
Bam-Bam
Stormrider <=== JUST PLAYED
Grimjack <==== UP
Won't complain about the
you self caught most of it. I cannot remember how many times I failed to protect an army.I remember my first game at emperor (not that this is yours...) , I let cities rebel WAY too much. We have all had enough
so far in this game--thank God it is not Diety.Reminder to all--we have got to be more careful on the city riots and protecting our armies...I do not think the rest of the opponents (after Shaka is crushed
) will lay down so easy.As for the leader--FP in New Orleans is my recommendation! We may just get lucky and pull another one for the GL. Great wall will not help us, and if we don't pull another leader, Boston might just win out--we have a much better developed civ than anyone,--industrious workers ROCK!
I suggest trade for construction--go for poly (usually one AI doesn't research), and revolt as soon as the war ends. BTW, if we do not get another leader, we should investigate one or more cities building wonders (if we cannot conclusively determine whether we can beat them to a wonder by looking at their tiles.)
I may have more ideas after looking at the save.
Shilllen <=== ON DECK
bewareofgnomes
Bam-Bam
Stormrider <=== JUST PLAYED
Grimjack <==== UP
bewareofgnomes
Back Again
after looking over the save, i would suggest building the FP in Memphis. That would give us use of all the bonus grassland in the north. i think the middle cities will be ok.
EDIT after looking over the save more closely, i elect New Orleans. otherwise, houston and all of the other cities wouldnt be productive at all. we really need courthouses.
EDIT after looking over the save more closely, i elect New Orleans. otherwise, houston and all of the other cities wouldnt be productive at all. we really need courthouses.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Ok--quick look at the save, and I still think New Orleans is the right location for the FP rush. Memphis is a close second.
Looking at the invasion force....we ARE a bit thin here. I suggest a full scale rush on the remaining cities. Hit Zimbabwe hard--should fall in one turn. Then leave one unit to heal and head immidiately south to Bapedi (I think). Attack from the hill--ignoring anything but the city. I bet Shaka will send archers to get his city back--they will be irrelevant if you take his last city first.
This is a bit more hairy than I would like, but I think the penalty for not acting quickly will be a 10-20 turn delay in eliminating the Zulu.
We then need to get the settlers churning out of NY again to settle this island and the rest of ours. I recall that we HAVE sold our WM--then we need to get control of all of our land ASAP.
One other thing--as I was chided before--we need to stop building reg spears in cities--set them to temples and churn vet units out of cities with rax. We have no immidiate threats, and 20 shields is not worth it for reg units. Besides, we should be revolting for republic after Grimjack crushes the Zulu.
I think if we cover our land and the Wang/Shaka Island (and the island nw of our land)...we should be able to slam dunk this game.
Looking at the invasion force....we ARE a bit thin here. I suggest a full scale rush on the remaining cities. Hit Zimbabwe hard--should fall in one turn. Then leave one unit to heal and head immidiately south to Bapedi (I think). Attack from the hill--ignoring anything but the city. I bet Shaka will send archers to get his city back--they will be irrelevant if you take his last city first.
This is a bit more hairy than I would like, but I think the penalty for not acting quickly will be a 10-20 turn delay in eliminating the Zulu.
We then need to get the settlers churning out of NY again to settle this island and the rest of ours. I recall that we HAVE sold our WM--then we need to get control of all of our land ASAP.
One other thing--as I was chided before--we need to stop building reg spears in cities--set them to temples and churn vet units out of cities with rax. We have no immidiate threats, and 20 shields is not worth it for reg units. Besides, we should be revolting for republic after Grimjack crushes the Zulu.
I think if we cover our land and the Wang/Shaka Island (and the island nw of our land)...we should be able to slam dunk this game.
Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
My thoughts:
I agree with Nawleans as the F.P. site. Our continent is a builder's dream. It is large, has good terrain, and we are by ourselves. I think we would be up for any type of win.
We do not need too much additional military to take out the Zulu. I think once we take Zimbabwe, they will be broken as a Civ (unless we leave them with a city or two for future leader fishing).
In fact, the only reasons I can see for taking them out in the first place were to prevent them from having an entire continent to themselves, as it was only a matter of time before Seoul became a Zulu city as opposed to an American city and to grab an additional native luxury or two for ourselves.
The southern continent will never be productive for us. Any cities and military there will be a drain on the mainland. We do need a fairly strong presence there for luxuries and to prevent the other AI's from getting a stronghold close to our homeland.
I agree with Nawleans as the F.P. site. Our continent is a builder's dream. It is large, has good terrain, and we are by ourselves. I think we would be up for any type of win.
We do not need too much additional military to take out the Zulu. I think once we take Zimbabwe, they will be broken as a Civ (unless we leave them with a city or two for future leader fishing).
In fact, the only reasons I can see for taking them out in the first place were to prevent them from having an entire continent to themselves, as it was only a matter of time before Seoul became a Zulu city as opposed to an American city and to grab an additional native luxury or two for ourselves.
The southern continent will never be productive for us. Any cities and military there will be a drain on the mainland. We do need a fairly strong presence there for luxuries and to prevent the other AI's from getting a stronghold close to our homeland.
I see the save. Will try to play later tonight. ( 4.30 PM here now. )
Will rush leader to NewOrleans for FP. See also if I can get a trooper or two to properly chastise Shaka.
I do not think southern continent will be a drain on us, since with the size of the main island, any lux would be worth more gpt than any reasonable upkeep. A single temple or library for some expanded borders are the only improvement needed in case it is hopelessly corrupted over there.
Grimjack
Will rush leader to NewOrleans for FP. See also if I can get a trooper or two to properly chastise Shaka.
I do not think southern continent will be a drain on us, since with the size of the main island, any lux would be worth more gpt than any reasonable upkeep. A single temple or library for some expanded borders are the only improvement needed in case it is hopelessly corrupted over there.
Grimjack
bewareofgnomes
Back Again
i think that we should keep zulu for leader fishing. just take out zimbabwe and then send a spear or two to protect our elites and let the zulu hordes have at it. also, the southern continent prolly wont be terribly productive, but the luxes would be nice.
It is my understanding that normally you have to research from behind in emperor. For some reason we seem to be ahead in this game though, but that may change quickly.
In that case, wouldn't keeping Zulus around also induce an increased cost in our research ?
Also, as americans, we are for some reason not militaristic. Isn't it possible that the chance for leaders is minimal at best ?
One more reason for conquest, is that it nets us two more cities. I wouldn't want to keep Zimbabwe if it was to be a constant flip risk.
Any one care to advice on pros/cons on conquerring, versus leaderfishing.
Grimjack
( WIll play soon now. Hoping for some advice first. )
In that case, wouldn't keeping Zulus around also induce an increased cost in our research ?
Also, as americans, we are for some reason not militaristic. Isn't it possible that the chance for leaders is minimal at best ?
One more reason for conquest, is that it nets us two more cities. I wouldn't want to keep Zimbabwe if it was to be a constant flip risk.
Any one care to advice on pros/cons on conquerring, versus leaderfishing.
Grimjack
( WIll play soon now. Hoping for some advice first. )
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