BoG 01- American Pride

[Bam-Bam]

We are not militaristic. Leaderfishing is not worth letting shaka live. We got the best use of a leader we could get in being able to locate the FP exactly where we want it--instantly.

Keeping them around will increase our tech costs.

We have enough for two good cores, have a nice city capable of producing lots of settlers, and industrious workers.

My recommendation-- :die: to shaka
Fill in his and our land asap--with the last land grab to occur in the island on the northwest.

Even though much of Shaka's land will be corrupt, we will be denying it to the AI and 7-8 extra cities with one or two commerce will be of great value in the long run. Especially if we can get them with courthouses and in WLTKD. They are close enough to be defendable. This is the next step in the evolution of the American nation--manifest destiny in our land and the monroe doctrine for our neighboring islands....

 

[Grimjack]

Upload server seems to be really really busy. Will uplaod as soon as it is available.

Meanwhile, turn report comes here.

290BC (1) STart to move Washington ( The leader ) towards New Orleans,

It will work, or it will not, here we go..
Start with our fresh elite, which promptly dies while redlining.
The next two Veterans, though, are up to the task, and one of them gets
a battlefield promotion as he marches into Zimbabwe.
An elite swordsman dies leaderfishing against an archer. sigh. Nothing is ever easy.

Change New Orleans to worker. ( nothing else would be finished before leader arrives. )
Workers are almost always in high demand

Hmm, Atlanta is size 7. Hope we can keep happines up.

We have no harbour. We want that. Change Temple -> Harbour in Chicago

MM New York to get settler in one.

Miami would riot, it gets a Taxman

IBT New York Settler -> Settler, New Orleans Worker-> Wealth

270BC (2) Some movement starting settler to move so he can found next to our FP

IBT Zulu move their stack of archers up to our swords. They also send out an Imp
towards zimbabwe. Will see if I can beeline to Hlobane and eliminate them
Atlanta SPear->SPear, Buffalo SPear -> Courthouse

250BC (3) Hurry FP in New Orleans

IBT New Orleans, FP -> Granary

230 (4) BC Swordsmen in range of Hlobane. Has elite impi on top

IBT Three zulu and one impi is in range of Zimbabwe. This better work out.

210 (5) BC Hlobane is destroyed, no leaders. For some reason Hlobane is autorazed.
Thought the few culture points from that being their Capital would prevent autorazing.

Very well, SOme people want to go to the election urns, but with two turn left on Construction,
I veto the revolution.

Rome,Iroquois is up Polytheism and Construction, Bismarck Construction. Neither has republic.
Bismarch is at war with Hiawatha. Genghis Khan is broke and at the end of the rope.
I can get Construction/Polytheism and 180 gold out of Rome for Republic. I chose to hold off a
little while, since we will get Construction soon, and may get a better deal out of republic.
Also, it might be good to keep republic out of their grasp as long as possible.

IBT San Fransisco, Court->Granary, Dallas Warrior->Temple

190BC (6) MM Science and still get Construction in 1.
Trade World map around and gain some 15 gold. Germany and Iro still at war. Bismarck and Iro both broke,
Rome has some odd 200 gold.

IBT Construction, going for Poly. ( Only choice. ) Washingtoni Market->Library, New York Settler -> Settler
Atlanta Spear -> SPear, MIami, spear -> Courthouse, Mongols start Great Library

170 BC (7) Do some trading. Rome offers Poly, World Map and 200 gold for Republic.
I wait and see if I can get something else from him also. I spend 77 gold to investigate Pompeii, teh roman
city that builds Great Library. Waste of good money, hopelessly corrupt. Should have realized this.
Not much to wait for, I lead us down into Republic at 90 GPT in 8.1.1. Draw a medium heavy 6 turn one.

IBT Got an unavoidable starvation at Baltimore.

150BC (8) zzzz

IBT zzzz
130BC (9) ZZzzz
IBT zzz
110 BC (10) Land Settler/SPear pair on Zulu Continent.
This is a good spot, if it is worth it to buy a temple for them.
If we will not buy them a temple, then I suggest we settle closer to the
spices, so we can use the luxuries.
Rome still offers us all his gold + poly for Republic. Up to next leader if we should
go for it. ( Would this catapult us into next age ? )
I have not spent much time MMing after I went into anarchy. It is possible we can rearrange
for faster growth in some cities.

 

[Grimjack]

Link should be here

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1,110_BC.zip

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Grimjack
290BC (1) STart to move Washington ( The leader ) towards New Orleans,

Start with our fresh elite, which promptly dies while redlining.
An elite swordsman dies leaderfishing against an archer.

You can only have one leader at a time.

Since you were moving an active leader, there is no leader fishing.

 

[bewareofgnomes]

i was thinking that with us about to go into a lull, feel free to play 20 turns if nothing happens. if something important does happen, or you dont feel comftorable, then play 10

 

[Bam-Bam]

Dang--forgot to mention that in my earlier post...

Thanks for the help LK--to bad we forgot to discuss that earlier...

Well--I did a quick shadow attack after the FP completed (just to see if it made a difference)--

Don't feel bad Grimjack--I couldn't pull a leader even when we didn't have one....

Nice set of turns though--the "Western" Hemisphere is secure!!!

Shilllen <==== UP
bewareofgnomes <=== ON DECK
Bam-Bam
Stormrider
Grimjack <=== JUST PLAYED

 

[Shillen]

Few comments.

1) Why did we wait so long to switch to republic? Get out of despotism as soon as possible. I don't think it would have hurt the war against the Zulu and even if it did, so what?

2) You really should have traded republic for poly/construction. We doodled around in the ancient age far too long, Germany is already one tech into the middle ages at least. No reason to research a tech the AI already has. Easier to research something else and trade for it. The AI's will have republic soon anyway, so I will probably trade it for poly and whatever gold I can get, which would mean we wasted our time researching construction and however far into poly we are now.

3) Do we want the Great Library? Even if we get it we're only going to get a couple techs from it. We had the tech lead, we could have kept it and had a military advantage. The Great Library is a crutch that is almost never needed. And I'm still not sure we'll get it first. The Germans are building it in their capital, a size 7 city. Our city is stuck at 6 until it gets an aqueduct. I think that aqueduct is more important too since that's our Colossus city. Each pop point gets one more commerce than normal. I'm really tempted to waste 60 shields and switch it to an aqueduct.

 

[Shillen]

How close are we to polytheism? I can't tell while we're in anarchy. If we're really close then I won't trade republic for it, but if we still have 4+ turns left I probably will. Especially considering we have 3 more turns of anarchy left.

Oh yeah another note on the Great Library. Since we're taking a militaristic approach to this game it would be really easy to just capture whatever city builds it. With the shape of their continent we can pretty much unload troops pretty close to any city we want.

How did the Koreans manage to get Seoul to size 3? Far as I can tell that's not possible without a harbor and they didn't have one. It will reach size 2 and be stunted. So we won't get any settlers out of there. We can still use it for a worker factory but it won't be a very good one. It also uses up one of our core city slots. I might disband it. We already screwed the AI attitudes with those 2 autorazed cities anyway.

edit: Just checked all the saves, I guess they never got beyond size 2. I thought they were 3 at some point but I guess I was mistaken. Anyway that explains why they never built a second city. Talk about a flaw with the AI, settling in a location where they can't possibly grow to size 3.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Shillen--Grimjack just started poly before the revolt. Maybe one turn invested there.

Agree with Shillen--though I HATE to waste shields (esp that many) we need Boston to grow. GL will not help us--we are near the lead here and have the economy to crank out the cash in republic. The only reason to keep it going would be to get another wonder-- Hanging gardens may be useful with only 3 native lux and such a large landmass. Sun Tzu would be *nice*--hey--it's your call. Just not GL...

I think we have been spoiled by such an optimal start and may not be putting as much care as we need to into the game--we need to tighten this game up and take it to the AI Set us back on track Shillen!

 

[Shillen]

Preturn: Zimbabe switched to temple to grab wheats. Seoul switched to worker, will disband after it grows/produces worker. Washington changed to harbor. Atlanta changed from spearman to marketplace. Detroit changed from library to harbor (we don’t want it working our colossus city’s tiles). Cincinnati was founded 1 tile away from coast – it will have 2 coastal tiles that only produce 1 food. Memphis, Seattle, Miami, Houston, Denver, Dallas all switched to marketplace. I’m going to stick with Grimjack’s decision to hold onto republic. We’ll see how it turns out. Great Library switched to aqueduct, resulting in a 160 shield aqueduct instead of 100 shields, not so bad when you look at it that way. Buffalo switched to aqueduct. New Orleans switched to marketplace.

90 BC (1): Boston aqueduct->marketplace. All these stacked workers are going to drive me crazy hehe. Working hills/mountains this early in the game = bad. Those tiles won’t be used until we have size 12 cities.

70 BC (2): Los Angeles founded 1 tile away from river, but was worth it to reduce overlap. Set to temple to close gaps. Cleveland founded on second continent next to spices. Set to granary.

IT: Bismarck asks for alliance vs the Iroquois. No thanks.

50 BC (3): Seoul builds worker. We’re a Republic! Rome completes the Great Wall. Seoul abandoned. Buffalo switched to worker, our FP core is poorly developed.

Argh game crashed when I went to domestic advisor screen. My first crash ever with ptw v1.21. Loaded 50BC autosave.

50 BC – part 2 (3): Wow, we can get poly in 4 turns at 30% science. I guess since everyone knows it already. Lux is an issue though, set to 20% until we get spices hooked up. We can’t hook them up until Astronomy though. We’re still making 55gpt.

30 BC (4): Philadelphia marketplace->aqueduct (man I know I checked the tile it was on before making the dotmap and it produced 1 commerce). Buffalo worker->aqueduct.

IT: The people offer to expand our palace for the first time. Iroquois are building the Great Library in Salamanca.

10 BC (5): Scout disbanded. Science reduced to 10% (Poly in 2 still).

10 AD (6): New York settler->settler.

30 AD (7): We learn polytheism. Germany and Rome both have Monarchy + Engineering. Trade the Republic to Rome for Engineering, 154 gold, and world map. Bismarck wants both Republic and 200 gold for monarchy, screw him. Chicago harbor->temple. St. Louis temple->marketplace. Switch Washington to the Great Lighthouse. I noticed none of the AI’s are building it. It will allow us to hook up spices and also speed up our conquest of the other continent. Next player can decide to switch it to Sun Tzu’s if they want, or they can build Sun Tzu’s in another city. Research set to Feudalism at 80% (5t/-79gpt). We have 961 gold in our treasury.

50 AD (8): Nothing important.

70 AD (9): New Orleans marketplace->library. New York settler->worker (need to improve hills by Washington). Romans are building Hanging Gardens. Science down to 70% (Feudalism in 3 still).

90 AD (10): Denver marketplace->library. Kansas City founded near New Orleans (there were unused tiles). Set to marketplace. Science reduced to 60%. Iroquois will give us Monarchy straight for Engineering. I don’t think we need it, but it’s up to the next player.

Ok once we get all our marketplaces done and a few libraries we really need to switch gears to barracks/sun tzu and military units. We should make our first strike with knights and hopefully finish them off with cavalry or maybe even before that. I’d say getting geared up for war should take high priority over settling the second continent. Try to build a lot of horsemen before getting chivalry. Forget about defensive units. The AI is absolutely awful at waging transcontinental wars. Even when we do build some defensive units, only put them in the coastal cities. Our inland cities don't need them. Before declaring war, make sure we have enough units to attack with to make the war short, with minimal war weariness. If you can, get them to declare war on you by kicking them out of our territory.

BoG1-90_AD.zip

 

[bewareofgnomes]

got it, will try to play tonight.

 

[bewareofgnomes]

im having mixed feelings on my turn. didnt build up much military, but got pretty good infrastructure going.

Preturn -notta

IT -NY worker> settler Seattle mplace > rax. We are second happiest, behind only iro.

Turn 1 -worker movements. Tweak slider to 40%, still in two. +51

IT- Atlanta riots :weed:

Turn 2 -tweak slider to + 84 were up feudalism and engineering on everyone except bis and rome, who have engineering. Were down monarch.

Turn 3 -worker movements

IT- Boston mplace> library berlin has TGL. Thats ok because he doesnt need it

Turn 4 -raise lux to 30%

IT- NY settler > settler

Turn 5 - found san diego

IT - Bis and Hiawatha make amends seattle rax> horsemen New Orleans library> rax

Turn 6 -worker movements

IT- miami mplace > horseman

Turn 7 - tweak science slider

Turn 8 -notta

IT- NY settler> settler Denver library> rax

Turn 9 -notta

IT - Seatle horseman > horseman St louis mplace > rax New Orleans rax > horseman memphis
mplace > library. The people love me!! They kindly build a second story. Guess they don’t share my oponion that I got nothing done.

Turn 10 - left with some worker movements.

 

[bewareofgnomes]

and the save...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-290_BC.zip

btw, rome and germany have been building sun since about turn 6 or 7. lighthouse due in 5. due to dire lux, i suggest we keep it. lux and palace location are only two things keeping this from perfect game so far.

 

[Grimjack]

hi,

Some explanations only on why I did some of the stranger things.

Right or wrong, I had thought we should wait for Republic until war was over. I will know better next time.

Also as regards Republic trading, I saw that Germany was/is a very big country, and I didn't want to make them stronger than necessary, instead hoping they would switch into Monarchy. At the least, this would have given them two rounds of anarchy.

Didn't think on the leader stuff. My bad. Of course I knew I couldn't have two leaders.

As to second continent, It is as far as I can tell only a placfe where we can get resources. I do not see any need to invest anything in that continent, except perhaps temples for a few more squares towards domination.

Grimjack

 

[Bam-Bam]

BoG, you had the wrong link for the save...here is the correct link

BoG1 270 AD

I got it.

 

[bewareofgnomes]

my bad.will be more careful next time.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Preturn: Settler routed to cow hill NE of LA. Worker enroute to DC hills--this should have been done long already! Harbor rushed in Cleveland should have waited until Lighthouse was built to save cash on the rush.

280 AD (1): Atlanta market -> library. Miami horse -> granery No rax in Miami? Cleveland harbor->library.

290 AD (2): Boston library-> Sun Tzu (keep or a good prebuild). Phili aqueduct-> library. Houston market->aqueduct. Detroit Galley -> aqueduct. St. Louis changed to library from rax.

300 AD (3): Chicago temple -> market. Seatle horse -> horse. New Orleans horse -> granery (This should replace NY as our settler factory for the northern region). Denver rax -> horse. The people added steps to our palace. Richmond founded NE of Memphis -> granery (two cows). Slider to 40% sci -> Theo still in 3.

310 AD (4): SanFran aqueduct -> library. Buffalo aqueduct -> granery. Baltimore market -> library. :laugh: Bismark is a monarch!!!??!!! This is too much--the only scientific left and he is the only monarchy??!!

320 AD (5): Washington builds the Great Lighthouse -> library. This brings our spices online! NY settler -> settler. Dallas market -> aqueduct. Mongols started Hanging Gardens. Silks and Wines to Caesar (only trade partner available) for all his 1g, his WM, and furs (BTW his has no iron hooked up--it's in his territory ). Lux to 20%--can go to 10% with temple in SanFran (it's ordered up) and connecting Zimbobwe. Slider @ 30% sci--Theo in 1 @ 140 gpt.

330 AD (6): We learn Theology. We are up Mono and Theo on Bis and Caesar--they have monarchy. Others are behind eng and feudalism. Education ordered w/deficit science (-63 gpt) in FOUR turns. Lux @ 10%--SanFran and Zimbobwe get taxmen. Seatle horse -> horse. The people expand our palace.

340 AD (7): Atlanta riots . I CHECKEDthe cities--guess I just missed it. Taxman hired. New Orleans gets a granery w/ a chop -> temple (will get another chop assist). Denver horse -> horse. Seatle changed to temple (w/chop assist).

350 AD (8): Zimbobwe gets a temple w/chop assist and a rush -> granery (2 plains wheats should be irrigated so that this can be the settler factory for this island)--taxman fired. Miami granery -> library. St. Louis library -> rax. MM New Orleans for =10 fpt 10 spt. This is the settler/worker factory for the remainder of our land's colonization. Las Vegas founded NNW of Richmond on coastal hill next to silks -> temple.

360 AD (9): NY settler -> temple (end of settler phase for NY--IMO). Memphis library -> granery.

370 AD (10): We learn education ..still up same on others. Banking ordered at positive cash flow (treas @ 261g)--due in 6 @ 36 gpt. We have a great economy! Washington library -> university. Denver horse -> horse.
Wines, feudalism, iron, and 2 gpt to Temujin for his ivory. He is the only one without feudalism, next to rome (who has iron but it's not hooked up) and has no iron in his territory. His is also likely not the first target for us. Taxmen fired in SanFran/Atlanta. Seatle/NY changed from temple to library.

Next up--please keep a close eye on the lumberjacks and time the chops to when at least ten shields are left on what is being built. NY should build its infrastructure--New Orleans should start settler production after the temple is complete. Zimbabwe should start settler/worker production after the granery is complete (may need to rush). Horse factories should continue churning (remember either should be @ 10 spt or 15 spt)--we should go after chivalry after banking, I think. Or trade mono if the AI's get it first.

EDIT: There is a settler in a galley by the southern continent that should be placed west of the razed city on the coast. This will connect Zimbabwe. The worker is irrigating the desert to get to the wheat sw of the city site.

I think our first attack should be the Iroquois--they have dyes and gems in the cities closest to Washington--and they just learned feudalism and may not have iron hooked up--check this. Two more natural lux near DC is too tempting to pass up. Upgrade the vet swords to MedInf (keep the elite for fishing) and upgrade those horses when we get chiv. Should have 15 knights and 5-10 medinf for invasion.

And here's the save....

 

[Stormrider]

Go America!! I've got it.

It looks like my turn will be spent preparing an invasion force. The American people will have a war of expansion to gain land and resources from a Native American tribe (Iroqois). I guess there is a first time for everything

 

[Shillen]

Good turns guys.

I have a couple concerns though as usual. Why are we following the top half of the tech tree? I don't see us building any universities or banks for a long time, it will just slow down our conquest. We should be following the bottom half to military tradition, and researching chivalry when we have enough horses to upgrade.

I was actually thinking we should hit Rome first. The Iroquois are the closest to us but their territory is filled with jungle/mountains which makes them much harder to kill. Since our galleys won't be able to cross the ocean to the west, the next closest civ is Rome. Rome has lots of nice flat terrain and I think won't be too hard to conquer with our knight advantage if we strike them right after learning chivalry. If we can knock them out then there'd only be one big civ left.

edit: Ok just looked at the save. The Iroquois actually have 4 luxuries for us. So I've changed my mind, we should hit them first. But that jungle terrain is still foreboding. I hate losing the 2 movement of the knights. It'd probably be best if we hit the Germans after the Iroquois, ship them by boat across the channel there. There's 4 moves between the Iroquois city of Tyendenaga and the German city of Brandenburg, would make a good transport location where units can be shipped and still move after being dropped off. Going north through the jungle to the Mongols or Romans would be too slow.

Remember we're going to need a lot of galleys too, I'd suggest about 12 of em. We have 5 so far. We also need a lot more money. It's 80g per horse upgrade and 40 gold per sword upgrade. So I'd guess we'll need about 1500 gold. I'd switch research to invention and lower science to 40%. I'd also lower lux to 0% and hire an entertainer in Washington and a tax-collector in San Fran. We gain 54gpt from lowering lux. We'll learn invention in 7 and earn around 200gpt for upgrading/rushing.

 

[bewareofgnomes]

the reason i started on the top half was to speed up research, not necissarily thu universities and banks (though those help) but because the ai pursues the bottom half and we might be able to get some straight up trades. i was aiming for democracy, because in the past the ai will trade upwards of 200 gpt, enough to get you throug to TOE. but whatever is fine with me. i guess it just a habit to go through the upper half.