Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Medieval: Conquests' started by Kailric, Feb 26, 2014.
yes, I know
Less work for everyone
I just about have the first Civic list populated. I am attempting to create new Bonuses or Effects for this Civics, something new the game has not seen. I am also attempting to allow the player to maximize his efforts in certain areas such as; Expansion, Research, Diplomacy, or Conquest. Some of the new planned effects are listed below. All of the effects will be moddable as far as Bonus Units, Buildings, FF Points, and such.
Commerce: Free Market - Trading Post in Foreign towns connected by road produce extra gold/Doubles Exploration Points(when the player receives Exploration Points they get a extra bonus percent). Will make use of the new plot groups code.
Commerce: State Control - Trading Post in trade network produce Research/Banks and Mints earn a percent of the current Treasury.
I was inspired by the economy of the Byzantine Empire...
The state retained the monopoly of issuing coinage, and had the power to intervene in other important sectors of the economy. It exercised formal control over interest rates, and set the parameters for the activity of the guilds and corporations in Constantinople, in which the state has a special interest (e.g. the sale of silk) or whose members exercised a profession that was of importance for trade. The emperor and his officials intervened at times of crisis to ensure the provisioning of the capital and to keep down the price of cereals. For this reason, the empire strictly controlled both the internal circulation of commodities, and the international trade (certainly in intent; to a considerable degree also in practice). Additionally, the state often collected part of the surplus in the form of tax, and put it back into circulation, through redistribution in the form of salaries to state officials of the army, or in the form of investment in public works, buildings, or works of art.
Piety: Ritualistic- Bonus Religion from Connected Missions/ Missionaries are not consumed, they appear again after the first convert, and mission remains
Piety: Divine Revelation- Extra Bonus from Pilgrims/Combat bonus vs Civs without this Civic/Converted Barbarians are Expert Missionaries
Piety: Patriarch- Doubles the effects of Diplomacy/Allows for the Envoy Profession- details still in works but will have something to do with improving relations or chance to agree to deals
Labor: Wage Labor- Doubles the Fealty bonus your units receive in cities, Units cost 1 extra food, No Serfs or Cotters appear in Immigration. This is a good Civic for late game Industry.
Legal: Ecclesiastical- No Criminals appear in Immigration/ Allows the Inquisitor Profession-details still in the works
Legal: Charter Law- Increases number of potential Immigrants/Chance of Noble when population Grows (other Civics have a chance of different unit types as well)
Some Civics can not be combined, such as Religious Tolerance and Ecclesiastical law.
Civics will also be able to change the Default Population Unit and Default Luxury Food Unit.
Edit: From now on if you are going to present a new Civic you have to come up with an Effect for it also
Are you done with the trade screens or are you working on multiple stuff at once?
Be warned about luxury food. I hardcoded that into DLL for performance reasons. Moving it to runtime checks is possible, but we will likely regret if we skip considering performance for doing this.
I have been thinking about civics and default unit a while ago and I came up with a plan, which I think is worth considering.
We have UnitTypes eUnit = default from civilization info for civ in question. Then for each civic:
Player has civic
Civic has default unit
civic's default unit has a higher ID than eUnit
Player can use civic's default growth unit
set eUnit to civic's default growth unit
This will allow us to enable different growth units based on inventions and civics. Because it also checks if civ can use the unit, we can make inventions, which changes default growth unit for some civs only. In fact I think this is highly flexible and it should be able to make the combo you want using just XML.
EDIT: naturally this cache update should be performed AFTER "can use unit" cache is updated.
Actually to get unit X as default growth unit, you could need civic A to enable the unit and civic B to set it as growth unit. You will get a different growth unit if you miss either civic. Remember that civics can also be inventions, meaning it could mean a civic, which changes default growth unit, but only if the player actually invented the unit in the techtree.
Hmm, I was still going to add a "Said to West" command in the Trade Screens, but that isn't a game stopper, but I can't think of anything else at the moment that I was going to do. I do skip around a bunch. Once I get ideas in my head I have to at least write them down somewhere or I'll lose them. Then after I write them down I'm like, wow, that would be cool, lets do it!
Something along those lines was brewing in the back of my head, good idea!
I added AllowsUnitClassImmigration to civics. This allows civics to enable or disable unit classes on the immigration dock. It should be noted that even if a unit is enabled by his, it will not appear until it is enabled using the existing AllowsUnitClass.
While I worked in this region of the code I changed iIncreasedImmigrants to be able to remove units from the dock. This mean that if we make a civic, which gives +1 immigrant on the dock, it will give it (no change there). However if we switch away from this civic, it will fall back to the default and new code will remove unit(s) from the dock to fit the new number. Units are removed from the right and the default is set in globalDefinesALT.xml. There are no hardcoded numbers in the DLL other than interesting stuff might happen if you go below 1 unit(s) on the dock.
This is now in the civic screen branch and needs testing. A test would start with changing XML to make this code trigger as I think it's unreachable right now.
Nice work, and good job on fixing up iIncreasedImmigrants, that was somewhere on my todo list. I'll test these out next time I am working on an Issue.
I just pushed my resent changes to git also.
Civic Option: iMissionariesNotCosumed : Set to a positive number and your Missionaries will return after this many turns and the Mission will remain. Set to a negative number and the Missionary will return after the first convert and mission will remain.
Civic Option: iTradingPostNotCosumed : Traders (Peddlers, Merchants, etc) are now consumed by default when creating Trading Post in Foreign settlements. This Civic option set to a positive number will allow your unit to return after the assigned number of turns.
Note to Self: Currently if a Trader is carrying goods when it is "consumed" those goods are auto sold for half price. This however sets up an exploit where you can first buy up a load of say Spice and then auto sell for a good profit. Carried goods can either be sold at the Native buy price or 100 gold which ever is greater. Another option is to allow carried goods to give a slight bonus to Trade Points.
Woh those are some cool new CivicInfos xml tags.
Another good one would be to let civics/techs unlock harvesting/removal of a Feature, like techs unlock Forest and Jungle chopping in Civ4 or an environmentalist civic choice versus slash-and-burn agriculture etc.
I had had no idea how to use a Luxury Food in other mods like 2071, but with your idea of different options for the "Elite" citizen units, maybe it could use this for civic choices like being able to choose from a Cybernetic Elite generated using the Robotics yield or a Eugenic Elite using Plasmids. When hunting Animals, instead of always Luxury Food do you think Unit types could have moddable yields they drop when defeated? (i.e. x units of Yield Y).
I do believe that removing features is already in the mod if not I'll put it on the list. I know techs can decrease the time it takes. (On my iPhone at the moment).
Specifying what type of yield is hunted per unit killed will be an easy addition as well. I was actually going to add a civic option that increases the amount of yield you get per hunt. I'll add this also.
Is there a tag to let Techs discover/reveal a Bonus resource? I know this used to be in Inventor modcomp used for old 2071 (and was in Civ4Bts), but I cant seem to find it in the current M:C xml. It is possible to have Fathers reveal Improvements (eg GoodyHut types) using <RevealImprovements> in FatherInfos.
Similar to <ImprovementYieldChanges> in civicinfos, it could be good to add an optional <BonusYieldChanges> <TerrainYieldChanges> and <FeatureYieldChanges> , so Civics/Techs can also be able to adjust yields from a Terrain/Bonus/Feature.
Check the schema for options. It has AllowsBonuses, which is a list just like the other allow lists. It was buggy when I first looked at it, but I think I fixed it. It's a bit hard to tell though as none of the mods actually use it at the moment.
The only remaining problem is that they are always revealed, but it is on my todo list to fix that. it isn't high priority though as it is a graphical only issue.
With adding new Roman rump states and the idea of Roman techs still lingering around made me research just what all techs the Romans had that was lost when the western empire fell. The rump states, Papal states, and the Byzantines would still have those techs. These techs could only be acquired through War or Diplomacy, but they would really take some persuasion so more likely war
And there would be other "hidden" techs besides these. Some tech ideas I have are below, please post any you think of as well...
Concrete (the Roman ideas I found here)
Greek fire (used by Byzantines, closely guarded secret)
Engineering/seige warfare/state professional military
I am wanting to change the Trading League tech. It seems we have enough gold already and adding more from the league isn't helping
So, just what should we do? I have studied a little bit into the Hanseatic League, which is the idea behind this tech trying to come up with a solution.
Maybe the tech allows the trading league building, but what would the building do? Perhaps increase storage on give bonuses to high end production.
And what should we do with the remaining trade points? Convert the to Research or FF points?
Any ideas would be helpful.
Hm, you could instead make achieving that into a unique Victory condition (which you should adjust to be appropriately a big challenge to get, requiring you to achieve everything else on the screen then earn a large number of points, also maybe the other civs get envious with worse relations toward you as you start nearing the victory with total commercial dominance). Like in Civ4 it's always nice to have a wider variety of alternative strategies to shoot for, rather than always having to aim for the REF every game.
what about having it convert to fealty to add to your global fealty rate for the Final war, a powerful merchant monopoly would certainly led itself to achieving world domination!
Or in the future it could go towards the 'New World' Victory, you have to build up the merchant/adventurer spirit to unlock the 'Final Voyage'.
What about open up plotgroups and feeding system internationally?
Edit: Now you could be allowed to open up a trading post in a foreign trading partner civ and adquire cheaper products from their plotgroup system and be transferred to your cities or something.
But I don’t want to automate ALL the market, though.
Having an Economic Victory is one of our goals so we can start laying the ground work for that. And opening up other cities plotgroups maybe a good idea.
The main points to the Hanseatic League was for Protection and Monopoly. Perhaps when you research the tech and build a Trading League Office you can start to invite other Leaders to join your League, which gives benefits for all involved. It would also be like agreeing to not Pirate each others Holdings.
Other Civs that are close Rivals could start their own League and attempt to invite Leaders to join as well. Opposing Leagues would attempt to thwart each others economic gains through politics and piracy.
The League's Headquarters would be in the city were the Trading League Office is built. This building could allow you to choose one commodity to have a Monopoly on, and the Player would be the only one allowed to produce and sell that good.
The Hanseatic League has an interesting history, they were able to raise an army to defend themselves and their interests.
Maybe for the Economic Victory you would have to reach several thousand Trading Points after the League Headquarters is built. You may can also establish Trading League "Counters" (as one source calls them) in foreign towns. These would be upgrades to the Trading Posts and produce more Trading Points.
Lets abound a little more on this topic.
In civilization you wanted to acquire the monopoly of incense to be able to sell it to all other civilizations. Here in colonization, monopoly is harder to get because all goods can be produced in any city. You could, on the other hand, agree a price of a commodity with your trading partners to have it cheaper so that everybody come to you to buy that good, as it happens in normal life. This is pointless with raw goods, because it is free to produce them anywhere in the map; but it makes more sense for finished goods.
Let say grapes can be sold for 5 each; and wine can be sold for 7 each. Imagine that you agree with your trading partners that the price of wine is 3. So other civs may find it easier to buy it from you and your trading partners and send their own grape growers home.
This way you get some profit by satisfying other civs wine demand (that doesnt need to start large and therefore will not give you large unrealistic handfuls of money) and you may disrupt other civilizations system and make them dependent of you, a la civilization.
The monopoly of the trading partners can get lower prices as more members are added, it can be a source of conflict if everybody is buying your trading partner and not you or you can get more specialized trade agreements if I sell all wine and you sell all beer.
So a trading post into your trading partner city could be the place to get his monopolized commodity and sell yours, or a counter to estimate the number of partners and therefore the seed to calculate how low a commodity is, or the place to gather all partners grapes and on that huge offer calculate a low price wine.
Meditations on reseach and technologies.
Researching in M:C is extremely easy. Nothing prevents you from founding as many monasteries as you can defend and just with the food in the central plot feed the two researchers producing candles.
This should be slowed a little more; or made more game-outcomes related:
Researching chambers in monasteries not given for free.
Monasteries only be founded by religious great people. (generated through crosses)
[Tougher] Tinker houses be founded by Great Inventors (generated through school books or through candles)
Research cost money.
Limit the number of monasteries to the number of cities
On the other hand, if we make research too tough, you could end withstanding the Papal army just with archers, so changes should be tested.
I really like the ability to let researching some Techs cost some amount of any Yields you choose, in addition to just research points. If you want to make research more of a challenge, this could be used so that you need to seek out and acquire some amount of certain Yield in order to make advanced progress on specific techs. This works with Kailrics idea in the Economy thread that you probably shouldn't be able to produce all the Yields easy on your own, but in some circumstances should want to seek out trade sources for exotic yields you need for population Demands or research. This same system can also be usable with abstract Yields like Crosses, Fealty, Education etc, so that certain cultural/social techs are researched in a city producing plenty of Crosses, Fealty, Education; and you can choose to redirect some of that toward making research progress in that area.
Separate names with a comma.