BOTM 09 Pregame Discussion

[THE WIZ]

Please? I need all the help I can get at this level.

 

[MarkM]

I agree, I'm finding it very hard to decide the best spot to settle and the best place to move the scout. Should be a very fun game with lots of rivers, grassland and forests.

I'd be interested to know if anyone will go for a worker steal.

Don't think I've won an immortal BTS game yet so this will be a good challenge.
Test game anyone?

I'm not sure I've ever won an immortal civ4 game of any flavor Then again, I've probably never even tried outside of xOTM, and only tried one or two at most there. Looking forward to taking my first real crack at one here in at least a year or two.

I don't share the uncertainty over moving the scout. IMO the settlement choice comes down to 1) fast out of the gate, stay in place & get started immediately, with 2 hammer city site giving you 7 prod/turn towards worker on first turn, which will immediately mine the gems, or 2) decide in long run the food to E is worth waiting to get & move there [someone notes sea just to W of settler but I'm not sure that's worth the risk going to look at]. Moving the scout should inform that choice, and IMO the squares you reveal moving it SW-SE would do that best (I reason that if you are going to go after corn/rice, you will probably want to settle south in order to also get fresh water/river squares). the only other suggestion I see so far for moving scout is SW-SW, but I think SW-SE is a clear improvement as far as what it reveals. Moving NE NE would reveal the most, but the info is less valuable for immediate question of first turn (where to settle). Any other ideas?

Capital site IMO depends on 1) what you find with scout, and 2) what you want to focus on more, industrious (wonder) or aggressive (rush). After thinking more than 30 seconds now my bias is tilting to settling in place. That's even a good site long term, if I count right every square in FC except 3 are river (and 2 of those 3 are hills), mix in the 3+ hills and the eventually levee, this is a nice production site long term, with not too shabby commerce either, a good site under bureaucracy. But what the scout finds to S (E of settler) could change my bias.

I'm probably not going to even have option for early worker steal, since we start without a warrior and I'm thinking pop a worker first. Someone suggested settler first, I understand why with the food & stone there, but that seems too ambitious on immortal to me, IMO you need to get those gems going, and want a warrior (maybe even archer, since we have hunting?) ASAP as well, and unless the rivers connect you'd want roads to keep economy/research going? Thinking out loud & actually hoping someone with more experience on immortal will critique me, I don't know much about playing at that level & maybe I'm being too cautious. Or possibly not cautious enough, do I need to build a warrior before I build the worker?

Experienced immortal players, what are you thinking? Insights appreciated

 

[MarkM]

a small number of people will find when they start the game that they get a warning dialog advising you to exit the game and modify your Civ install before continuing. Again the HOF mod thread gives more details.

Hey DS, a clarification - if I get this, and quit the game to do whatever it says (does it tell you what to do? it's not clear from the thread) & restart (and hopefully get it all changed correctly the first time), that would be technically starting the game more than once, right? Just want to make sure if it happens game doesn't get rejected later for played more than once. I have Blue Marble & also Vista, for example, are those possible issues? (the thread you link gives no specifics)

If that is an issue, may I suggest you guys just creating a throwaway saved game first (ie a save that is not the BOTM save, but just one we can use to confirm our settings are correct before trying to load BOTM). Just an idea.

 

[Lexad]

As long as you don't make any moves you can open a asave file as many times as you like, so I see no problem here.

 

[Conquistador 63]

I just looked up at my XOTM history and noted I have won only 1 out of 7 Immortal level games. It must be a really hard step up from Emperor, where I've won most of the XOTM games I've tried. I've heard the AI gets fewer bonus (or starting bonus?) on higher levels in BTS, does that imply we would get a little more breathing space in the beginning of the game?

On the game itself: given it's Inland Sea and there is coast to the W, I came to the conclusion the high food area will be less contested (closer to the E or NE? map borders), so I'll just settle in place. I'll start with a worker, then 2 or 3 warriors and chop a settler ASAP for the food site.

After BW, Agri, Masonry, AH, Writing, Alpha, as Inland Sea means fast contact with all civs. Also, chopping Pyramids looks like a no-brainer (Industrious, stone and lots of forests!). Maybe this is a winnable Immortal game after all?

p.s. I usually don't have the patience to run test games, but in this case I'd gladly try one if available.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hey DS, a clarification - if I get this, and quit the game to do whatever it says (does it tell you what to do? it's not clear from the thread) & restart (and hopefully get it all changed correctly the first time), that would be technically starting the game more than once, right? Just want to make sure if it happens game doesn't get rejected later for played more than once. I have Blue Marble & also Vista, for example, are those possible issues? (the thread you link gives no specifics)

Sorry, thought the thread was clearer. If you do get the warning message, then on Windows XP the solution is to log out and login and play the game under an account that has admin privileges on the local machine. On Vista it's more complicated: You may find that to get the game working you also have to follow the steps given on the Vista fixes page. You'll know if it's working because you won't get the warning dialog when you try to start the game.

As Lexad says, you can open the save file as often as you want if you don't make any moves, so starting the game, seeing the dialog, and exiting, is absolutely fine. Blue Marble shouldn't cause any problems.

If that is an issue, may I suggest you guys just creating a throwaway saved game first (ie a save that is not the BOTM save, but just one we can use to confirm our settings are correct before trying to load BOTM). Just an idea.

Interesting idea. I'll check if it's technically feasible.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Unless there's a food resource we can't see yet, I don't see settling in place as a good long-term site. We can see 8 tiles in the FC with -9 food. You're going to need a bunch of useless farms just to work those tiles, even after Biology. Excellent commerce boost for a short-term game though.

Knowing there is such a nice city location close by, what are peoples thoughts on settling in place and starting with a settler?

I never have liked a settler-first strategy. It might be good in a really tight layout, but inland sea is a pretty spread-out map, so I don't see any hurry in grabbing that spot. I do think REX is an excellent stategy for this map and difficulty level, but with workers to quickly make cities productive.

 

[greatbeyond]

Please? I need all the help I can get at this level.

Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.

I have tried to exactly duplicate the starting picture and location. No guarantees on the other Civs.

These are with the new patch and HOF mod.

 

[Denniz]

If that is an issue, may I suggest you guys just creating a throwaway saved game first (ie a save that is not the BOTM save, but just one we can use to confirm our settings are correct before trying to load BOTM). Just an idea.

Probably unnecessary, though. All you have to do is load the HOF Mod. It will pop up the warning before you even get to the menu if there is an issue. If you start a new game you can see if your assets match.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.

I have tried to exactly duplicate the starting picture and location. No guarantees on the other Civs.

Are those with the new patch, GB? (And thanks! )

 

[JerichoHill]

thanks great beyond

thanks mods, i got my issue resolved

 

[Htadus]

Going to space.

So settle in place for an excellent production city post mid game. Build a worker, warrior(s) untill population two, and then a settler.

Learn Agg, BW for chopping, AH to secure a horse pasture, Wheel and Masonary for you know what and then I am not too sure. If I recall correctly, by then Myst to Priesthood should be cheap. So may be a shot at Philosophy from Oracle or if research is slow go for MC. May have to learn Pottary after Masonary if trying for Philosophy. AH..... to learn or not to learn.....that may be the question. May have to skip AH till later.

I plan to settle the second city north of the scout unless some thing better become available. Idea is to get stone, corn and rice in the inner tiles. It will build warriors untill at least population 3 and then worker-settler combo for a while untill learn writing and then build library (to hire 2 scientist) and back to building settlers till research drop to 60%.

Capital will start on the Mids as soon as possible untill then it will also build units and buildings. Will try to avoid using the capital to build settlers or workers after the initial ones. Plan to farm both dye's in the bigining if there are no additional food in the capitals BFC.

That is the plan and the execution may be another story. I have played 3 immortal games so far and loast all three. So it is time to win.

 

[JerichoHill]

anyone else have a plethora of barbs in the test game?

 

[srad]

Thanks greatbeyond! I will try the test game.

After playing tow rounds of the test game I tend to settle directly on the stone. With those two food resources settler or worker are build faster.

 

[Ronnie1]

I have played a couple random starts with these settings!

anyone else have a plethora of barbs in the test game?

YES,YES,YES

I plan to settle the second city north of the scout unless some thing better become available. Idea is to get stone, corn and rice in the inner tiles. It will build warriors untill at least population 3 and then worker-settler combo for a while untill learn writing and then build library (to hire 2 scientist) and back to building settlers till research drop to 60%.

City #3 caused me to drop under 60%!

 

[Adonias]

Change of plan...

Testgame shows great potential with worker-settler-Great Wall. With stone it might be possible to get the Mids as well after the GW. But the GW is quite a musthave with the barbs at this level. After the Wall it's possible to REX like mad while the AI is fending of the barbs.

The mids tend to get built somewhere before 700BC...

 

[JerichoHill]

Adonias,
You may be right. I wanted to try and see if I could hold the barbs off myself, but its certainly easier with GW.

Its going to be tough for early conquest or just early wars as the AI's archers will be at least CD2, due to their own barb attackers

I'm going to go 1 NE, 1 SE, and settle on turn 2. Ill have 2 happy resources and the stone. 2nd city is going to get that food!...of course, ill move my scout SW to see if thats a good move first...better not be desert!

 

[Levgre]

What I'd do for start...

Settle in place. Research BW. Build worker.

Then start settler. Research agriculture. Mine gems, then chop to finish settler.

Research masonry. Settle where the scout is, use first worker to farm corn. Build a 2nd worker in first city. Build worker in second city.
Start pyramids in second city after finishing the worker. Research road.

With the 3 workers start chopping for pyramids after the road is connected.

Research archery if no copper, use capital to build 1-2 archer/axemen, 4th worker, and 3rd settler(perhaps Great Wall before 4th worker? AI can get it quite quick, though).

 

[Levgre]

In the test game with the above process I was able to finish the Pyramids in 1950 B.C., and the Great Wall in the capital in 2200 B.C. So I think that is a good way to go. And then REX after getting a better military unit to kill barbarian archers.

The capital is probably ideal for cottage spam, while the second city is best for GP farm.

Domination/Conquest is probably the easiest on a map like Inland Sea, very predictable, easy to access all enemies. And of course being aggressive helps.

 

[Htadus]

I have played a couple random starts with these settings!
..............
City #3 caused me to drop under 60%!

Thanks for the heads up. Did you have any cottages running? How far away was you 3rd city? I hope cottages makes a difference.

I will play a couple of test games to see what can be done to get a large empire early without suffering economically (w/o mongering). May be my goel should be 50% research.